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03-02-18 11:12PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
IF YOU KNOW THE TRUTH and or the whole story.... Why keep it a big secret for so many years? MY interpretation is Jones thought Cathy O was TOO OLD to continue the Olympic run they were on. Jones decided to buy her out and get a younger team mate. The legalese she would have written would be something similar to... we thank you for your contributions over the years to get us to the point where we have a great chance of qualifying for the Olympics, but your services are no longer required. Please accept this payout as our version of your perceived contribution to this team and good luck in your future endeavors. I'm guessing that's not too far from truth. If not, post it.
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03-02-18 11:31PM |
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CURLER1
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Brandon
Posts: 1054 |
quote: Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
IF YOU KNOW THE TRUTH and or the whole story.... Why keep it a big secret for so many years? MY interpretation is Jones thought Cathy O was TOO OLD to continue the Olympic run they were on. Jones decided to buy her out and get a younger team mate. The legalese she would have written would be something similar to... we thank you for your contributions over the years to get us to the point where we have a great chance of qualifying for the Olympics, but your services are no longer required. Please accept this payout as our version of your perceived contribution to this team and good luck in your future endeavors. I'm guessing that's not too far from truth. If not, post it.
nope & not my story to tell.
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03-03-18 02:43PM |
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Deliverer
Swing Artist
Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 471 |
quote: Originally posted by CURLER1
nope & not my story to tell.
Not your story to tell? Of course it isn't. If anybody divulges the full story it will have to be Jones herself.
Curlers have been dismissed from teams for many, many years for multiple reasons. It's absolutely normal and simply part of team sports. The problem most have with "O's " dismissal and the reason it is still regarded as distasteful and unpalatable by everybody except Jones and her supporters/fans, is twofold:
- The Timing of the dismissal
- The adverse Impact of that
dismissal on 'O".
To hope that curlers in general will forgive and forget that kind of a decision made by a Win-At-Cost type of individual is probably not realistic.
Unfortunately the above decision by Jones followed another blunder when she was playing in the Gimli provincials, and refused to play on when the ice official did not agree with her "burned rock" opinion. Those folks who watched are not going to forget. And undoubtedly, Jones will never forget the boos and jeers as she scurried from the rink.
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03-03-18 04:31PM |
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Ajay
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 570 |
Think of a team as a company that is made of of three employees and a supervisor. Generally, if an employee is dismissed it would be an internal personal situation that would remain private. In this instance you have one party that went public to seek the public's sympathy, and the other party had enough class not to share issues in the media. Hence, much speculation and blame, without any details being available.
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03-03-18 04:38PM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
Mark Kennedy stepping back. Not retirement. Classy speech.
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03-03-18 04:51PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
I missed the first part of the interview. Is it just him or the team?
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03-03-18 05:36PM |
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340 |
quote: Originally posted by Ajay
Think of a team as a company that is made of of three employees and a supervisor. Generally, if an employee is dismissed it would be an internal personal situation that would remain private. In this instance you have one party that went public to seek the public's sympathy, and the other party had enough class not to share issues in the media. Hence, much speculation and blame, without any details being available.
Poor analogy Ajay.
Regardless of the reasons for the dismissal of Overton from the Jones team it has nothing to do with your attempt to paint Overton as classless or seeking pity and attention.
What Jones did hit Overton squarely in the pocketbook and it brought to light a serious issue in competitive curling that still needs to be addressed-the cutting of players without fair and adequate compensation for their efforts.
This has nothing to do with privacy, it has to do with clear cause and effect. Overtons efforts led to Jones qualifying for the Olympics therefore she is entitled to a share of the awards-monetary or otherwise-that Jones receives. This concept is not new and is a part of almost any contract in professional team sports.
So the notion that Overton is somehow a villian when, in fact, it was Jones, is ignorance.
But I will say this in fairness to Jones because she wasn't the first to play this card. Martin did it, Gushue and others cut players coldly and without compensation for their efforts which forwarded them to Trials berths.
What does it mean? It means the end of honour amongst teammates. It means that if you are considering a run at the Olympics with any team, you would be a fool not to have a written and signed agreement which takes into consideration this kind of situation.
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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson
Last edited by jamcan on 03-03-18 at 05:52PM
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03-03-18 05:51PM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
quote: Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
I missed the first part of the interview. Is it just him or the team?
Nothing much said about the team other than Mark talking about all the great people he had curled with, Talked about injuries and sounded really "tired'.
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03-03-18 06:08PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
quote: Originally posted by decade
Nothing much said about the team other than Mark talking about all the great people he had curled with, Talked about injuries and sounded really "tired'.
Thanks. Seems like a no brainer for Johnny Mo to slide in.
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03-03-18 06:27PM |
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Ajay
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 570 |
Jamcan - I did not know that you were aware of the reason for Cathy and the jones team to sever ties, and can confirm that she was released without cause.
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03-03-18 06:29PM |
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guido
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1418 |
quote: Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
Thanks. Seems like a no brainer for Johnny Mo to slide in.
I would hope not.
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03-03-18 06:34PM |
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CURLER1
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Brandon
Posts: 1054 |
Really...the whole Jone's thing with Cathy and Gimli is getting really old and stale.
Speculate all you want....but their was a team involved and Jone's takes all the heat.
We have watched hundreds and curling games since then, some really good ones....lets move forward.
Old news gets boring and stale. Time to watch the Brier and enjoy!
Then, we can watch as all teams break up and move on. It has become a business.
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03-03-18 07:24PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
quote: Originally posted by guido
I would hope not.
He always seems to land on his feet somewhere.
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03-03-18 07:44PM |
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JB42
Drawmaster
Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 621 |
Curling is of course filled with great shooters but to my mind Kennedy has been for the last ten years in the discussion for the best shooter in the game.
Like Middaugh he was able to make freezes as easily as he made runbacks. There was no shot outside of his ability and he made shots we used to think too low percentage to try into shots that everyone needed to have in their arsenal if they wanted to compete.
I remember well that stretch that he had when Team Martin was pretty much unbeatable. What I remember best was chuckling when listening to Johnny Mo every time Marc let go of the rock say, "Weights good".
I also remember being at the Glenn Howard curling camp and Saville saying about Kennedy, "I don't know how that guy does it, he holds on to the very back of the handle, I'm amazed every time he makes a shot, so ya I'm amazed a lot." Again like Middaugh he didn't have a technique that you could teach anyone else, but man oh man did he ever make it work. And as everyone who has ever watched him play knows there has never been a better teammate. Yes there have been many who were as good, but there are none better. Curling will miss him, let's hope it won't be for too long.
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03-03-18 07:50PM |
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CURLER1
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Brandon
Posts: 1054 |
guessing the team is playing in the last couple of grand slams and Marc will finish out the season with the team. He never really said.
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03-04-18 01:29AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote: Originally posted by Ajay
Think of a team as a company that is made of of three employees and a supervisor. Generally, if an employee is dismissed it would be an internal personal situation that would remain private. In this instance you have one party that went public to seek the public's sympathy, and the other party had enough class not to share issues in the media. Hence, much speculation and blame, without any details being available.
Unless you know the complete and exact details of the circumstance, when you state that "the other party had enough class not to share issues in the media", you're simply guessing.
Maybe Jones staying publicly quiet was a matter of her having class.
Or maybe Jones staying quiet was a matter of her trying to conceal a truth that would make her (Jones) look rather bad.
One is just as plausible as the other to those who don't know exactly what happened.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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03-04-18 03:43AM |
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Loony
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 200 |
quote: Originally posted by On The Nose
Unless you know the complete and exact details of the circumstance, when you state that "the other party had enough class not to share issues in the media", you're simply guessing.
Maybe Jones staying publicly quiet was a matter of her having class.
Or maybe Jones staying quiet was a matter of her trying to conceal a truth that would make her (Jones) look rather bad.
One is just as plausible as the other to those who don't know exactly what happened.
Good grief. Ajay isn't guessing. The 'real' story has been told any number of times but for some reason, some people just don't want to believe it. Yes, Jones was being classy by refusing to discuss it in the media even though COC ran to her favourite reporter to try and get people to feel sorry for her (she obviously succeeded) but Jennifer took all the heat through the years and never ever bad-mouthed Cathy. You think her team didn't appreciate that? It's part of the reason they have stuck together and been so successful for so long as a team and are still staying together while most other teams are coming apart.
Ajay may not want to say what happened but I'm not afraid to. Both Dawn and Jill went to Jennifer and said they would quit before they would play another season with Cathy. Jennifer was caught in the middle because she considered Cathy a good friend but all previous attempts to heal the rifts on the team had failed and she had to make the decision she made. (And CathyO was handsomely compensated for potential team earnings.) In retrospect, it was obviously the right decision for the Jones team as all their success has proved while Cathy has never been able to get along with new teammates well enough to keep a team together or fit into another team for more than a year.
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03-04-18 04:06AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote: Originally posted by Loony
Good grief. Ajay isn't guessing. The 'real' story has been told any number of times but for some reason, some people just don't want to believe it. Yes, Jones was being classy by refusing to discuss it in the media even though COC ran to her favourite reporter to try and get people to feel sorry for her (she obviously succeeded) but Jennifer took all the heat through the years and never ever bad-mouthed Cathy. You think her team didn't appreciate that? It's part of the reason they have stuck together and been so successful for so long as a team and are still staying together while most other teams are coming apart.
Ajay may not want to say what happened but I'm not afraid to. Both Dawn and Jill went to Jennifer and said they would quit before they would play another season with Cathy. Jennifer was caught in the middle because she considered Cathy a good friend but all previous attempts to heal the rifts on the team had failed and she had to make the decision she made. (And CathyO was handsomely compensated for potential team earnings.) In retrospect, it was obviously the right decision for the Jones team as all their success has proved while Cathy has never been able to get along with new teammates well enough to keep a team together or fit into another team for more than a year.
So... what - or who - is your source of this information?
Unless you know the principles involved personally, I'll take your account with a grain of salt. You simply repeated one of the 'theories' that was making the rounds at the time.
And you display a decided and obvious bias in favour of Jones over Overton.
I'd prefer to hear objective, unbiased perspectives - if any exist.
Or, of course, the actual facts from someone who personally knows one of the principles involved. Anything else is mere speculation and gossip...
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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03-04-18 08:16AM |
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CURLER1
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Brandon
Posts: 1054 |
quote: Originally posted by Loony
Good grief. Ajay isn't guessing. The 'real' story has been told any number of times but for some reason, some people just don't want to believe it. Yes, Jones was being classy by refusing to discuss it in the media even though COC ran to her favourite reporter to try and get people to feel sorry for her (she obviously succeeded) but Jennifer took all the heat through the years and never ever bad-mouthed Cathy. You think her team didn't appreciate that? It's part of the reason they have stuck together and been so successful for so long as a team and are still staying together while most other teams are coming apart.
Ajay may not want to say what happened but I'm not afraid to. Both Dawn and Jill went to Jennifer and said they would quit before they would play another season with Cathy. Jennifer was caught in the middle because she considered Cathy a good friend but all previous attempts to heal the rifts on the team had failed and she had to make the decision she made. (And CathyO was handsomely compensated for potential team earnings.) In retrospect, it was obviously the right decision for the Jones team as all their success has proved while Cathy has never been able to get along with new teammates well enough to keep a team together or fit into another team for more than a year.
yes, and Jones took the heat, never bringing up Dawn and Jill.
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03-04-18 10:12AM |
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Deliverer
Swing Artist
Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 471 |
"Gimli is getting really old.... and Jone's (Jones) takes all the heat".
Clearly you were not at the Gimli provincials because if you were it would be difficult to conclude she did not deserve all the heat. After the ice official refused to change his opinion that the other team had not burned the rock, any other highly ranked team, playing a bunch of recent school graduates, would have simply moved on. But not Jones. No, she stood there for a moment, arms crossed, an intense scowl on her face, tapping her toe impatiently and then demanded to speak to the Director. When the director ( a famous Canadian curler) came out to the ice he immediately stated that he had not been watching the game. Nevertheless , after talking to both skips he ruled in favour of Jones. Why? He never did explain why he reversed the official's decision. There was a rumour that following the game he muttered something about "keeping the show on the road", but he subsequently denied ever saying that.
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03-04-18 10:22AM |
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CURLER1
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Brandon
Posts: 1054 |
quote: Originally posted by Deliverer
"Gimli is getting really old.... and Jone's (Jones) takes all the heat".
Clearly you were not at the Gimli provincials because if you were it would be difficult to conclude she did not deserve all the heat. After the ice official refused to change his opinion that the other team had not burned the rock, any other highly ranked team, playing a bunch of recent school graduates, would have simply moved on. But not Jones. No, she stood there for a moment, arms crossed, an intense scowl on her face, tapping her toe impatiently and then demanded to speak to the Director. When the director ( a famous Canadian curler) came out to the ice he immediately stated that he had not been watching the game. Nevertheless , after talking to both skips he ruled in favour of Jones. Why? He never did explain why he reversed the official's decision. There was a rumour that following the game he muttered something about "keeping the show on the road", but he subsequently denied ever saying that.
old, old - been talked to death.
In new news - Jill Officer stepping back.
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03-04-18 11:58AM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
i said it in the women's world thread. with muirhead going down in 2 to fleming i wouldn't be surprised if we see eve make some changes.
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03-05-18 11:54AM |
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nelski
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068 |
Team Flaxey of Ontario is now Team Jacqueline Harrisson - Facebook post this morning. Team Alli Flaxey is now a Manitoba team.
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Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.
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03-05-18 11:59AM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
quote: Originally posted by nelski
Team Flaxey of Ontario is now Team Jacqueline Harrisson - Facebook post this morning. Team Alli Flaxey is now a Manitoba team.
And 2 former members of Team Harrison are pairing up with two former juniors...
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Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.
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