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| 03-13-23 04:07PM |
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naterock_11
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2023
Location:
Posts: 24 |
quote:
Originally posted by MBTuck
Sure the Americans won gold. But no one puts Shuster in the conversation with the Martin, Edin, Koe, Ulsrud's of the past few decades.
And yea, right now, Edin and Mouat, in my opinion, are in a tier of their own.
Why exclude Gushue? Near as I can tell both he and Martin have one worlds gold, one Olympic gold. Koe has two worlds, no Olympics. And Gushue had one of his world berths cancelled by the pandemic. Silvers in his other two appearances.
I agree Edin is on a tier by himself, but Mouat's won neither event.
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| 03-13-23 04:55PM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
I think Gushue is clearly greater than Martin now. To the extent that matters, because they're both greats.
Edin is numerically in a class of his own; I say just call him the GOAT because it's fair enough. And his Worlds run is up their with Gushue's 5 for 7 Brier run. Both astounding and truly unexpected. But individually? Anything is pickable. If Gushue had been to 4 or 5 Olympics how would his resume look? Surely he would've been very competitive in 2018 as the defending world champion (an event they went undefeated in, beating Edin twice). If he'd managed a silver he'd have the same Olympic record as Edin.
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| 03-13-23 05:50PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
I think Gushue is clearly greater than Martin now
I think the game has evolved so much that people from different eras aren't really comparable. This is true for many sports, so I don't see why it can't be true for curling.
I would say that there's definitely a clear cut-off at 2018-2019 when 5-rock rule is standardized for 4-person curling. Resumes from before and after the cut-off are not directly comparable.
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| 03-13-23 06:03PM |
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hogged again
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2019
Location:
Posts: 659 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
I think the game has evolved so much that people from different eras aren't really comparable. This is true for many sports, so I don't see why it can't be true for curling.
I would say that there's definitely a clear cut-off at 2018-2019 when 5-rock rule is standardized for 4-person curling. Resumes from before and after the cut-off are not directly comparable.
Disagree. If you dominate your era, you dominate your era. Gushue is winning now, Martin won in the 90s and 00s, Russ Howard had the best team of all time IMO with Glenn and Middaugh back before 2000, Hackner ruled in the 80s. They are all all time greats, some from before free guard, some 4 rock, some 5 and it doesn't matter. They became HOFers because they had a talent for the game and put in the time to perfect their skill and they would dominate in any era because of that. Schmirler's team probably never had the % that the teams nowadays have in the Scotties but if they were coming up today they would be at the top because of the natural talent plus the hard work they put in would put them at the top in any era.
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| 03-13-23 10:00PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
Michael Jordan talked about GOAT-ness and comparing athletes from different eras.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smMKqdFHkkk
"I won 6 championships. Bill Russel won 11. Does that make Bill Russel better than me? Or make me better than him? NO. BECAUSE WE PLAYED AT DIFFERENT ERAS"
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| 03-13-23 11:06PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
Full respect to gushue and koe. They've been impressive. But they can win as much as they want. It won't change the fact that I will view Martin, Stoughton and Howard as the greatest 3 of all time . Above them, above even edin. When those 3 were active and at their best , that was the greatest era of curling there ever was or will be. You can't top that. I'm confident that they'd all have won more if they were active at different times .
Women...I've statd it before but schmirler and Norberg will always have my vote. It's very hard for me to pick between the 2. I go back and forth
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| 03-14-23 11:24AM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
quote:
Originally posted by misty1
Full respect to gushue and koe. They've been impressive. But they can win as much as they want. It won't change the fact that I will view Martin, Stoughton and Howard as the greatest 3 of all time . Above them, above even edin. When those 3 were active and at their best , that was the greatest era of curling there ever was or will be. You can't top that. I'm confident that they'd all have won more if they were active at different times .
Why? Kevin Martin couldn't even win a world championship for 20 years. When it was easier.
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| 03-14-23 12:41PM |
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hogged again
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2019
Location:
Posts: 659 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
Michael Jordan talked about GOAT-ness and comparing athletes from different eras.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smMKqdFHkkk
"I won 6 championships. Bill Russel won 11. Does that make Bill Russel better than me? Or make me better than him? NO. BECAUSE WE PLAYED AT DIFFERENT ERAS"
Jordan said that because he knows if he played against Russell in a 7 game series and tried to drive to the hoop like he did against jabronis he wouldn't even get through game 3.
Your comment that you can't compare teams from 2017 to now is ludicrous.
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| 03-14-23 05:28PM |
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Deliverer
Swing Artist
Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 471 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
Michael Jordan talked about GOAT-ness and comparing athletes from different eras.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smMKqdFHkkk
"I won 6 championships. Bill Russel won 11. Does that make Bill Russel better than me? Or make me better than him? NO. BECAUSE WE PLAYED AT DIFFERENT ERAS"
You and Jordan are entitled to hold a minority viewpoint.
However, of the highest-paid sports analysts/commentators, few disagree with Bob Costas' statement on this subject, namely: "It IS possible to compare players even when they played in different eras.'
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| 03-14-23 05:37PM |
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myhouse911
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 154 |
We witnessed not only the last Brier for Colin Hodgson, but Ryan Fry as well.
Congrats to Ryan on all his accolades.
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| 03-14-23 06:07PM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
“Retired”. Hmm. Retiring in curling is like joining the gym in January. It might last but I’d take the under.
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| 03-14-23 09:18PM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
Many a person has retired and the sold his soul to the highest bidder.
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| 03-15-23 03:41PM |
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hogged again
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2019
Location:
Posts: 659 |
Fry hasn't had the same intensity the last couple years. That may be because he is getting older or it may be because he switched from super intense Jacobs team to Epping/McEwen but still I'm surprised as I thought he was one of those guys who would play into his 50s. I think maybe after next year he may join Jacobs at second and take a longhot run at the trials.
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| 03-16-23 11:11AM |
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johnnysmoke
Drawmaster
Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 612 |
quote:
Originally posted by hogged again
Fry hasn't had the same intensity the last couple years. That may be because he is getting older or it may be because he switched from super intense Jacobs team to Epping/McEwen but still I'm surprised as I thought he was one of those guys who would play into his 50s. I think maybe after next year he may join Jacobs at second and take a longhot run at the trials.
Of the teams that Fry played with, the appearance was that N. ON was the best fit. I wish him the best wherever he lands.
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| 03-16-23 02:02PM |
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Deliverer
Swing Artist
Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 471 |
Up to the time Fry rode into
town, Jacobs & Co. had been
spinning their wheels trying to
win a Brier or a Grand Slam
event. Fry proved to be the exact
elixir they had been seeking.
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