Disclaimer: CurlingZone does not represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any Content posted on any Forums area and you acknowledge that any reliance upon such Content shall be at your sole risk. Any Content placed on any Forums area by users and anonymous posters are the views of the user posting the statement, and do not represent the views of CurlingZone or our partners, advertisers or sponsors. By posting anonymously, you are allowing your IP address to be displayed for identification purposes. CurlingZone reserves the right to remove any post at its discretion without warning or explanation.
01-09-22 03:35AM |
|
curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
If you watch enough mixed doubles games (especially from the pre-Olympics-era) you'll eventually get used to the unique team dynamics. In fact, this is one reason why I like mixed doubles in the first place.
Even Martin/Griffith fight on the ice occasionally. This one from 2020 QMDCC against Homan/Morris does not use profane language, but I would argue is bad from traditional team dynamics point of view, and also from the men vs women perspective (Griffith tried to involve Morris to gang up against Martin).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrCoGjnqlJU&t=2m30s
"Play the shot you want to play! I don't care! I'll get your opinion after this one, Johnny! (grumbling) because I don't think this is possible..."
I'm saying this not to say that Martin/Griffith has bad team dynamics, I'm saying that these things happen a lot in mixed doubles. Sometimes I wish I know Norwegian and Swiss German, to better appreciate the experience of watching the other 2 medal teams from 2018, Skasklien/Nedregotten and Perret/Rios.
Last edited by curlingclips on 01-09-22 at 04:06AM
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-10-22 05:55PM |
|
Hack Weight
Hitting Paint
Registered: Dec 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 131 |
It’s comical how late this is.. 24 days until first game and no one knows who’s going.
Good thing none of the potential athletes have families or jobs that might require a bit of notice if they are going to take off to China for a few weeks.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-10-22 06:32PM |
|
Maggie
Hitting Paint
Registered: Feb 2020
Location:
Posts: 156 |
quote: Originally posted by Hack Weight
It’s comical how late this is.. 24 days until first game and no one knows who’s going.
Good thing none of the potential athletes have families or jobs that might require a bit of notice if they are going to take off to China for a few weeks.
I agree but I’d bet the farm that the players who are going already know. It’s just the fans that are being kept in the dark.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-10-22 07:01PM |
|
curlky
Drawmaster
Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 559 |
Best complete guess is that there is a hierarchy in case of illness. For example we appoint:
Team A
If they get Covid Team B
If they get Covid Team C
And remember, the requirements to get into China are not a piece of cake. The Multiple PCR tests far in advance can be tough to pass if you were sick, as PCR can pick up lingering virus particles, even if they are already dead.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-10-22 07:39PM |
|
shirleyc
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 51 |
Also something else to think about. You need a special visa to go to China. To get it you have to send your passport when you apply and in my case it took a couple of weeks to receive back with the Visa.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-10-22 07:42PM |
|
decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
quote: Originally posted by alex
Any idea why?
Power tripping?
Last edited by decade on 01-10-22 at 07:45PM
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-10-22 07:56PM |
|
nelski
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068 |
quote: Originally posted by shirleyc Also something else to think about. You need a special visa to go to China. To get it you have to send your passport when you apply and in my case it took a couple of weeks to receive back with the Visa.
So, if they delay long enough they'll be forced to use someone in the bubble - just this once, and not cancel the two-event prohibition, formally. It is so bizzarre. Transparency not expected but a good reporter should be able to dig the truth out while we minions continue to speculate.
If they use Weagle and Kennedy and they don't perform to podium, they'll have an excuse.
__________________
Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-10-22 08:10PM |
|
curlky
Drawmaster
Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 559 |
Prediction for Post Olympics:
If Canada doesn't win gold, this decision making process will be the issue. If they do win gold, then the people in this thread will mostly give no credit on the decision, and say that while X won gold, Y should have gone instead.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-10-22 08:32PM |
|
shirleyc
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 51 |
I just want a decision as to who is going. Not to be critical. And wish them all the best and know they will do their best.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-10-22 08:43PM |
|
IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
quote: Originally posted by shirleyc
Also something else to think about. You need a special visa to go to China. To get it you have to send your passport when you apply and in my case it took a couple of weeks to receive back with the Visa.
That’s the best case scenario. My son was planning a trip to China just before the pandemic started. He had to fly to Ottawa to get the papers and visas or whatever in order to travel to China. He wished he could mail it in. Trip was cancelled in the end and after months of fighting with air Canada got his money back through his credit card company, NOT Air Canada.
My opinion only, send the team with the least amount of distractions, 4 person teams, one player missing etc. I originally thought peterman gallant because they’re already there but now leaning to Martin Griffith. If they medal they medal, and I like their chances. If they don’t, there’s a lot of teams from other countries out there that can.
Go Canada Go.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-10-22 08:54PM |
|
IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
quote: Originally posted by Maggie
I agree but I’d bet the farm that the players who are going already know. It’s just the fans that are being kept in the dark.
You may be right. They probably contacted 5 teams to see who was available, who wasn’t positive, who might not qualify for the Scottie’s, who might even want to go to China, which would affect many md teams. I just think it’s crazy if they appoint Homan Morris, that the rest of team Homan can’t go to the Scottie’s for Ontario. Let the team pick a replacement instead of penalizing the rest of the team because their skip accepted an invitation to represent her country. What Is curlon thinking putting that caveat on the nomination of team Homan. Scr@ws the rest of the team if she goes. Doesn’t seem fair to me. Maybe curlon should have been in contact with CC and vice versa before either announcement was/is made.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-10-22 11:02PM |
|
hogged again
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2019
Location:
Posts: 659 |
quote: Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
You may be right. They probably contacted 5 teams to see who was available, who wasn’t positive, who might not qualify for the Scottie’s, who might even want to go to China, which would affect many md teams. I just think it’s crazy if they appoint Homan Morris, that the rest of team Homan can’t go to the Scottie’s for Ontario. Let the team pick a replacement instead of penalizing the rest of the team because their skip accepted an invitation to represent her country. What Is curlon thinking putting that caveat on the nomination of team Homan. Scr@ws the rest of the team if she goes. Doesn’t seem fair to me. Maybe curlon should have been in contact with CC and vice versa before either announcement was/is made.
Yes I would certainly like to hear CurlOn's explanation. McCusker called it a strange decision during the broadcast yesterday and most agree.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-10-22 11:06PM |
|
cnpeters
Hitting Paint
Registered: Feb 2020
Location: Ohio
Posts: 167 |
I don’t know.
You know what this all feels like? A long game of desperately trying to figure out a good reason to skip the Nancy Martin team.
I mean, I get it, they’re not who CC thinks has the best chance, but this feels like the exact reason you’d have those ratings in your back pocket.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-11-22 12:04AM |
|
IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
quote: Originally posted by cnpeters
I don’t know.
You know what this all feels like? A long game of desperately trying to figure out a good reason to skip the Nancy Martin team.
I mean, I get it, they’re not who CC thinks has the best chance, but this feels like the exact reason you’d have those ratings in your back pocket.
Agreed. Madonna called. Desperately seeking Susan? No. Should be seeking Martin Griffith.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-11-22 07:38AM |
|
curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
We can't claim that CTRS is flawed (with regards to wildcard play-in game for Scotties/Brier) and in the same breath claim that CMDR is perfect (with regards to sending a team to the Olympics).
Don't confuse the goal with the mean to reach that goal.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-11-22 09:43AM |
|
curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
Figure skating just made a controversial team selection. But they did it within a day of their championship. They were also able to hold their national championships in Ottawa. Why the delay for Curling Canada?
__________________
Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-11-22 11:13AM |
|
hoggedrock
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Nov 2021
Location:
Posts: 17 |
Maybe future olympics should have 4 person teams play first, then mixed doubles. Then it would be less controversial to have overlap between 4 person / MD players.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-11-22 11:33AM |
|
Hack Weight
Hitting Paint
Registered: Dec 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 131 |
I’ll say that the reporting on this MD team has been pretty modest in my opinion. In every major sport there are insiders who seek scoops/tips from sources and report. Curling reporters (and I appreciate there aren’t many) seem content to just wait until an official decision is made rather than digging and breaking the news. There’s obviously a very short list of teams in consideration, if the decision hasn’t been made yet, yet we don’t know.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-11-22 11:37AM |
|
curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote: Originally posted by Hack Weight
In every major sport there are insiders who seek scoops/tips from sources and report.
I don't actually know much about general sports, but from what I understand, reporters rarely uncover secrets. It's the other way around: leagues will strategically leak news to reporters.
Curling is probably not a big enough sport to do that, hence not much "secrets" are uncovered.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-11-22 12:14PM |
|
bpm
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Nov 2008
Location:
Posts: 40 |
The range of opinions only serves to outline how subjective this decision is. Some people argue process + integrity = CTRS above all else, for Martin/Griffith, despite the fact it's a poor measuring stick loosely monitored for trials qualification and no more. Others think the best choice is a team that wouldn't have even been in the trials, Peterman/Gallant, going against 4-years of process because "they're good and they're already going." Others want Morris and Homan because they're Morris and Homan, experience, credentials, etc., regardless of current form. Others want Einarson/Jacobs because Einarson is the defending Canadian champion, even though the two as a pair have never played a game together. Others have other choices which are wrong.
There are some serious practical implications like passports/VISAs as mentioned by a previous poster. I don't even Curling Canada, and it's probably tougher than we all realize for reasons we aren't even thinking about. Maybe none of the teams above can even get clearance in time beyond Peterman/Gallant, and this whole delay is a ploy to act as if there was no other choice. Or maybe there's nothing sinister behind it at all and it's just complicated. It isn't always a matter of politics or incompetency as so many observers seem to exclusively consider.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-11-22 12:49PM |
|
Observer
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2016
Location: River Falls, WI, USA
Posts: 445 |
You could always just decide to not send any mixed doubles team at all.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-11-22 12:59PM |
|
oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
quote: Originally posted by bpm
The range of opinions only serves to outline how subjective this decision is. Some people argue process + integrity = CTRS above all else, for Martin/Griffith, despite the fact it's a poor measuring stick loosely monitored for trials qualification and no more. Others think the best choice is a team that wouldn't have even been in the trials, Peterman/Gallant, going against 4-years of process because "they're good and they're already going." Others want Morris and Homan because they're Morris and Homan, experience, credentials, etc., regardless of current form. Others want Einarson/Jacobs because Einarson is the defending Canadian champion, even though the two as a pair have never played a game together. Others have other choices which are wrong.
There are some serious practical implications like passports/VISAs as mentioned by a previous poster. I don't even Curling Canada, and it's probably tougher than we all realize for reasons we aren't even thinking about. Maybe none of the teams above can even get clearance in time beyond Peterman/Gallant, and this whole delay is a ploy to act as if there was no other choice. Or maybe there's nothing sinister behind it at all and it's just complicated. It isn't always a matter of politics or incompetency as so many observers seem to exclusively consider.
Perfect post. But this forum suffers from a real case of nasty ego-trippers. The tone here is downright hostile nearly all the time and everyone is a genius who sees the simple, obvious and common-sense answer to every problem. Except all these geniuses don’t agree. Somehow despite that it never occurs to them that the issue isn’t actualy that simple, obvious or common sense.
We’ll see what the decision is and, more importantly, how it is explained. Then we can judge. But if it is well reasoned then it is “right” even if not perfect or the team doesn’t so much as win a game. If it is not well reasoned then it’s fair game for criticism. Likewise, the “delay” in announcing may or may not be an actual delay and may be any number of practical reasons that may or may not be valid.
We’d all do well to keep our mouths shut and stop declaring ourselves geniuses and CC morons when we don’t even know what’s going on. And maybe be a bit nicer to the other people here since we are all just hobbyists who presumably just want to have some fun chats about curling.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-11-22 01:14PM |
|
Bulls Eye
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2017
Location:
Posts: 80 |
quote: Originally posted by oliviertoisel
Perfect post. But this forum suffers from a real case of nasty ego-trippers. The tone here is downright hostile nearly all the time and everyone is a genius who sees the simple, obvious and common-sense answer to every problem. Except all these geniuses don’t agree. Somehow despite that it never occurs to them that the issue isn’t actualy that simple, obvious or common sense.
We’ll see what the decision is and, more importantly, how it is explained. Then we can judge. But if it is well reasoned then it is “right” even if not perfect or the team doesn’t so much as win a game. If it is not well reasoned then it’s fair game for criticism. Likewise, the “delay” in announcing may or may not be an actual delay and may be any number of practical reasons that may or may not be valid.
We’d all do well to keep our mouths shut and stop declaring ourselves geniuses and CC morons when we don’t even know what’s going on. And maybe be a bit nicer to the other people here since we are all just hobbyists who presumably just want to have some fun chats about curling.
Nice post. I was hoping that the tone of this forum would improve with the elimination of ML and fresca. It has but it is still rather hostile. Maybe the nature of the beast.
The Olympics are looming. I suspect the decision on the MD reps has already been made and the parties are being contacted in the appropriate order ahead of the public announcement.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
01-11-22 02:01PM |
|
prairie guy
Swing Artist
Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Southern Sask.
Posts: 364 |
quote: Originally posted by Bulls Eye
Nice post. I was hoping that the tone of this forum would improve with the elimination of ML and fresca. It has but it is still rather hostile. Maybe the nature of the beast.
The Olympics are looming. I suspect the decision on the MD reps has already been made and the parties are being contacted in the appropriate order ahead of the public announcement.
A couple of excellent posts. It does seem social media and forums like this brings out the "I am so right and you are so wrong" attitude in people.
Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
|
|
|
All times are GMT. The time now is . |
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|