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01-15-16 08:13AM |
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B Anderson
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 39 |
quote: Originally posted by mr. lucky
Never before seen footage- You are very pretty Ben
http://youtu.be/1CFkAK_H7xg
I don't know if I'd call that never before seen footage. We aired that during Nationals a few years ago.
The look that the knee pain puts on his face is stuck in my head.
-BA
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01-15-16 07:56PM |
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Deez
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 86 |
[Deez strolls by, looks in the window to see if they're having a conversation that won't degenerate into people complaining about formats or favoritism. He notices in 10+ years across two different websites not a thing has changed, puts his hands in his pockets, keeps walking]
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01-17-16 08:54AM |
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tuck
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613 |
Boys:
It looks like Hodek and Clawson played a great on until Clawson cracked a big one in the 8th. Clawson gets Wisconsin next (I mistaken thought Falk was on the team) and Hodek plays Shortstop. Both teams playing against probable playoff contenders early. I wish I'd seen that game.
Girls:
First draw coming up. Minnesota 1 and Minnesota 2 get the center sheet and I'm very interested in that game. Cousins and Schroeder play on Sheet 5 and that's pretty interesting to me as well.
Steve Dubberstein is helping out with the webcast. If he's good, then I get the credit because I made him do some last year in Devils Lake. If he's bad, I don't get any of the blame because...well...because I'm Tuck and we all like Tuck and don't blame him for anything.
Stevie Dubbs, of course, is the father of the 3 Dubberstein girls. Like Secretariat and Wayne Anderson, Smiling Steve is one of our great damsires. (horse players are laughing at that one...the rest of you can indulge me)
Ben Tucker
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01-17-16 02:41PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
can anyone fill me in on what happened with dropkin in their second gamne?. they were up 5-2 and then suddenly the scoreboard changed to a bunch of x's and they have it marked down that they lost 1-0.
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01-17-16 03:10PM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
Dropkin team changed their lineup for their game today vs Team Michigan, but failed to file a new lineup card.
I understand that rules are rules but also wonder why a line-up card even has to be one of the rules.
Last edited by dbsdbs on 01-17-16 at 03:41PM
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01-17-16 04:41PM |
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IMWright
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 206 |
quote: Originally posted by dbsdbs
Dropkin team changed their lineup for their game today vs Team Michigan, but failed to file a new lineup card.
I understand that rules are rules but also wonder why a line-up card even has to be one of the rules.
A few thoughts:
A. For a program that loves to change lineups for every game, they should have known that they needed to file a new line-up card.
B. The Dropkin Rule (yes, I will still call it that) will no longer apply to the HPP junior mens team for this nationals since they have now lost a game.
C. Bets on when the HPP changes the line-up card rule?
D. That's how the cookie crumbles. There was a junior team out of Canada that used an extra broom or something, and so they had to forfeit a game. So yes, rules are rules...
E. I think the rule exists so that it is clearly written somewhere what the order of throwing is, so if halfway through a game, something accidentally (or purposely) changes, they have it documented who should be where so it's not hearsay and someone says that they were throwing some order the whole game. Makes sense to me there should be a written lineup somewhere. It exists in many other sports... Along with rules for changing lineups.
Last edited by IMWright on 01-17-16 at 04:46PM
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01-17-16 07:58PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
quote: Originally posted by dbsdbs
Dropkin team changed their lineup for their game today vs Team Michigan, but failed to file a new lineup card.
I understand that rules are rules but also wonder why a line-up card even has to be one of the rules.
how did they get all the way to the 5th end before anyone realized they had changed their line up is my question
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01-17-16 10:35PM |
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felfie13
Knee-Slider
Registered: Jul 2015
Location:
Posts: 5 |
Seems like something they should be familiar with doing. And it's not like this is a new rule or a hard one to follow. My team changed line ups at clubs a couple of times and no filing that card was easy....
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01-17-16 11:00PM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
According to USCA Championship Rules:
A game team line-up form must be submitted to the Chief Umpire at least 15 minutes prior to the pre-game practice. The team delivery rotation, skip and vice-skip positions, alternate player, and coach are listed on the original team line-up form, and submitted to the Chief Umpire at the end of the team meeting. A game team line-up form must be submitted to the Chief Umpire at least 15 minutes prior to the pre-game practice. The team delivery rotation, skip and vice-skip positions, alternate player, and coach are listed on the original team line-up form, and submitted to the Chief Umpire at the end of the team meeting.
I did not find discussion of penalties for an incorrect form but I guess we now know that the penalty is.
So the punishment fits the crime.
Last edited by dbsdbs on 01-17-16 at 11:05PM
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01-18-16 09:32AM |
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mkachris
Knee-Slider
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Freeland, Michigan
Posts: 2 |
Out of rotation penalty
The penalty for playing out of rotation is part of the rules of curling. The section you are refering to is part of the event procedures.
R3. TEAMS
(a) A team is composed of four players. Each player delivers two stones, in consecutive order in
each end, while alternating with an opponent.
(b) A team declares its delivery rotation, and the skip and vice-skip positions, prior to the start of
a game and maintains that rotation and those positions throughout that game subject to
(d)(ii). A team that deliberately changes its delivery rotation during a game will forfeit the game,
unless it was done when bringing in an alternate player.
quote: Originally posted by dbsdbs
According to USCA Championship Rules:
A game team line-up form must be submitted to the Chief Umpire at least 15 minutes prior to the pre-game practice. The team delivery rotation, skip and vice-skip positions, alternate player, and coach are listed on the original team line-up form, and submitted to the Chief Umpire at the end of the team meeting. A game team line-up form must be submitted to the Chief Umpire at least 15 minutes prior to the pre-game practice. The team delivery rotation, skip and vice-skip positions, alternate player, and coach are listed on the original team line-up form, and submitted to the Chief Umpire at the end of the team meeting.
I did not find discussion of penalties for an incorrect form but I guess we now know that the penalty is.
So the punishment fits the crime.
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01-18-16 09:59AM |
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Casual Curler
Knee-Slider
Registered: Mar 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 7 |
Has anyone considered they took their loss in a game that wouldn't be that competitve so as to get their "1 loss" now they run the table and there will be no need to have any rematches or second games??? Just my thoughts- the HPP and these teams are pretty savvy and I wouldn't put anything past the team - Just alittle food for thought??
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01-18-16 11:29AM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
Re: Out of rotation penalty
quote: Originally posted by mkachris
The penalty for playing out of rotation is part of the rules of curling. The section you are refering to is part of the event procedures.
R3. TEAMS
(a) A team is composed of four players. Each player delivers two stones, in consecutive order in
each end, while alternating with an opponent.
(b) A team declares its delivery rotation, and the skip and vice-skip positions, prior to the start of
a game and maintains that rotation and those positions throughout that game subject to
(d)(ii). A team that deliberately changes its delivery rotation during a game will forfeit the game,
unless it was done when bringing in an alternate player.
Supposedly the forfeit involved the line-up card rather than playing out of order. But there is not much info available about this so who knows?
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01-18-16 11:36AM |
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biterbar
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 695 |
quote: Originally posted by tuck
Boys:
It looks like Hodek and Clawson played a great on until Clawson cracked a big one in the 8th. Clawson gets Wisconsin next (I mistaken thought Falk was on the team) and Hodek plays Shortstop. Both teams playing against probable playoff contenders early. I wish I'd seen that game.
Girls:
First draw coming up. Minnesota 1 and Minnesota 2 get the center sheet and I'm very interested in that game. Cousins and Schroeder play on Sheet 5 and that's pretty interesting to me as well.
Steve Dubberstein is helping out with the webcast. If he's good, then I get the credit because I made him do some last year in Devils Lake. If he's bad, I don't get any of the blame because...well...because I'm Tuck and we all like Tuck and don't blame him for anything.
Stevie Dubbs, of course, is the father of the 3 Dubberstein girls. Like Secretariat and Wayne Anderson, Smiling Steve is one of our great damsires. (horse players are laughing at that one...the rest of you can indulge me)
Ben Tucker
The video replay showed Falk viced against Clawson in the Wisconsin win. He is listed as fifth, I'm not sure who viced against the loss to Michigan.
__________________
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire"-Winston Churchill
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01-18-16 12:03PM |
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IMWright
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 206 |
quote: Originally posted by Casual Curler
Has anyone considered they took their loss in a game that wouldn't be that competitve so as to get their "1 loss" now they run the table and there will be no need to have any rematches or second games??? Just my thoughts- the HPP and these teams are pretty savvy and I wouldn't put anything past the team - Just alittle food for thought??
That doesn't make sense. Running the board until the championship game would be some insurance, so I don't think they'd want to give up a game on purpose earlier.
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01-18-16 12:11PM |
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Casual Curler
Knee-Slider
Registered: Mar 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 7 |
Just a thought... would you rather take your loss to a team that will not factor in or have to play the #2 team a second time???
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01-18-16 01:40PM |
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IMWright
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 206 |
quote: Originally posted by Casual Curler
Just a thought... would you rather take your loss to a team that will not factor in or have to play the #2 team a second time???
I think I see the point you're trying to make. But I think I'd rather go undefeated. If I had a bad game and lost in the "championship" match, I'd get another shot (yes, it'd be playing that good team again, but at least I'd be playing again and not going home). If you lost in the round robin, and then lost in the finals, poof, you're done.
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01-18-16 01:42PM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
quote: Originally posted by Casual Curler
Just a thought... would you rather take your loss to a team that will not factor in or have to play the #2 team a second time???
??? trying to figure out the difference whether HP team wins round robin with no losses or with 1 loss. I see that the Junior draw schedule has time for a second final game on Sunday. USCA rules say championship is determined via Page playoff so what is the effect of 0/1 losses? Please don' tell me the USCA is really going to require a 2nd championship game if an undefeated team loses in the Page final.
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01-18-16 01:52PM |
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Casual Curler
Knee-Slider
Registered: Mar 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 7 |
That is exactly the new rule that came out of last year! Our precious HPP team went undefeated and then lost. So a non-HPP team went to worlds - Now, of course we know that they added the beloved skip from the HPP team and replaced/shuffled the team around so they could have the HPP skip, skipping a team he had never played on. So this year if you go undefeated there is a loss provision rule in place... second chances for our HPP team to ensure they get to worlds. My point was in all the arrogance of the HPP team - wouldn't you rather take a loss to a team that won't effect the playoffs and then run the table at playoffs and not have to play the 2nd place team a second time! Strategic move? or honest error in not submitting a lineup card to officials? Questionable at best!
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01-18-16 02:04PM |
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hkempenich
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Sep 2014
Location:
Posts: 10 |
I doubt it was on purpose. I'm pretty sure it was a communication error by the Dropkin team. Someone made a decision to change the lineup (probably a coach). Someone else is in charge of handing the lineup card to the official. Coach tells the team while the second person isn't present. Coach and team think that the person with the card knows. Person with the card doesn't know, and hands the unchanged card to the official.
The way it was done at Nationals and playdowns a few years ago, the lineup card has space for a few different lineups. They fill their first one and hand it off to the official for the first game. The timer transfers the name to the game record. For the next game, if they don't want to change the lineup, they just hand the same card to the official. If they want to change it, they fill the next lineup slot and hand it off. I'm not sure if it is done the same way.
Is it time for a new rule that the team must fill each subsequent spot for each draw even if the lineup is unchanged?
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01-18-16 03:22PM |
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youngen
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 99 |
quote: Originally posted by Casual Curler
That is exactly the new rule that came out of last year! Our precious HPP team went undefeated and then lost. So a non-HPP team went to worlds - Now, of course we know that they added the beloved skip from the HPP team and replaced/shuffled the team around so they could have the HPP skip, skipping a team he had never played on. So this year if you go undefeated there is a loss provision rule in place... second chances for our HPP team to ensure they get to worlds. My point was in all the arrogance of the HPP team - wouldn't you rather take a loss to a team that won't effect the playoffs and then run the table at playoffs and not have to play the 2nd place team a second time! Strategic move? or honest error in not submitting a lineup card to officials? Questionable at best!
Are you on something?
The 2 loss provision means that a team cannot be eliminated without 2 losses. It doesn't mean the HP or any other team has to have a loss to win. Any team could still go undefeated and advance to Worlds. They would not have wanted to purposely lose a game as that is a detriment. With a lose on their record they now have no chance to play the Championship game twice for a shot to advance.
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01-18-16 04:29PM |
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mkachris
Knee-Slider
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Freeland, Michigan
Posts: 2 |
Re: Re: Out of rotation penalty
An incorrect lineup card would constitute playing out of order. The player listed on the lineup card did not throw the stones he was listed to throw.
quote: Originally posted by dbsdbs
Supposedly the forfeit involved the line-up card rather than playing out of order. But there is not much info available about this so who knows?
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01-18-16 04:57PM |
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tuck
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613 |
I enjoy a good conspiracy theory as much as anybody, but intentionally not submitting a lineup card and then playing 5 ends??? Yeah...and Cuba and the Mafia and the FBI and the CIA and Lyndon Johnson all got together to kill Kennedy. At least that list had motive (maybe).
I feel terrible for Coach Wally Henry. Simple mistake that anybody could have made. Normally, Wally is my archenemy. When people ask, "Who is the nicest person in USA curling?", I always finish second to Wally. I try to spread rumors that he is secretly a horrible person, but those rumors never catch on. So here I sit; Nice Guy silver medalist. Second place is first loser.
I do need to think the penalty needs to be looked at by the WCF.
Ben Tucker (Wally's archenemy)
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01-18-16 05:33PM |
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tuck
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613 |
Anybody have results from the Boy's noon draw?
Ben Tucker
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