Registered: May 2014
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 629

We, at NerdCurl, offer our take on the BroomHaHa(stop calling it broomgate):

http://www.nerdcurl.com/2015/10/31/...ream-interview/

With all the back-and-forth and what not, instead of re-hashing what's already been said we threw any semblance of seriousness out of the window and satirized the issue.

IF you like bad Peter Lorre impressions, you're going to love this.

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location:
Posts: 19

This whole curling hullabaloo made the Washington Post!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...er-a-new-broom/

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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 211

http://www.curlingzone.com/talk/?p=217

Long story short, it's more about how you're sweeping than what you're sweeping with.

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Registered: Oct 2006
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Posts: 170

quote:

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Originally posted by fresca
i appreciate a real curler posting .... i dont really blame the manufacturers ... most of my concern is cca aka curl canada not controlling the situation ...

they seem to encourage the development of superior product to enhance a select few Canadian teams - not fair to other Canadian or visiting teams...


none of my business but curious how broom sponsorship works?

im guessing they ship a team 12 free brooms and 48 covers at the beginning of the season ... do they then ship a doz to each major event ?

would a top 10 team ( the teams that always seem to get to the playoff round )earn. $25,000 a year per team ?

im guessing top 10 -20 teams would get free brooms. and $5000 to sign a contract ?

if someone knows but is shy. private im me and ill post answers by edit ..

also curious if cc competitive coaches supply written literature re sweeping techniques etc etc to the top 4 teams that is unavailable to the great unwashed.

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 399

quote:

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Originally posted by brycejmcewen
http://www.curlingzone.com/talk/?p=217

Long story short, it's more about how you're sweeping than what you're sweeping with.

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Registered: Apr 2005
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Posts: 399

quote:

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Originally posted by fresca
some teams buy material at the large material outlets - just ask for curling sweeping material

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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: East St. Paul, Manitoba
Posts: 2

So what does this mean? Which heads in particular are out?

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

quote:

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Originally posted by Rolltherock
So what does this mean? Which heads in particular are out?

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Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:

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Originally posted by Rolltherock
So what does this mean? Which heads in particular are out?

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Last edited by RockDoc on 11-06-15 at 03:16PM

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Registered: Jan 2011
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Posts: 1962

quote:

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Originally posted by RockDoc


Link to policy.

My understanding of the fabric materials is that the Hardline IcePad, Balance Plus EQ+, or Olson Glacier in their current forms would be the commercially available products affected by this policy. All three of these products have textured coatings (with diamond-shaped wales or ridges) on their brushing surfaces. Home-made synthetic brush heads will be prohibited by this policy, regardless of fabric used.

Other brushing materials are based on Cordura nylon or similar fabrics and would be acceptable the way the policy is written.

That's the way it reads to me, anyways.

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Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 621

Link works. Just seems 'invisible'. Click on the words and it works.

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

I read the announcement. But it still falls to the WCF to show leadership, accountability and responsibility to name the products - because they are commercially available, off the shelf items any team can purchase.

The WCF is well aware of what products are involved and need to step up to the plate and list them. It's like telling athletes some drugs are banned but not which ones.

The only reason I can fathom for not naming the products is a legal one. Perhaps there's a manufacturer who is not buying into the hype and threatening to sue?

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Registered: Feb 2012
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So, I have my old-ish woven fiber uncoated fabric broom which is hard to keep clean and certainly not waterproof and now I have to buy lots of new broom heads to play the best I can to be legal according to new WCF rules - that is if I play in any games remotely leading to a WCF event. Meanwhile, most curling around the world is growing just at (dirty) ice arenas where ice time costs limit curling growth.

Meanwhile, Canada's Western Ontario U and Sweden' s Uppsala U are still in a debate match over wet v. dry friction. And, still no sign of an independent lab anywhere to set curling broom head standard of any messureable kind?

Reading Maxwell's "Canada Curls" this week and loving the pages about the 1700's kerfluffles when some Scots introduced the "twist" delivery. I dare say that was a bigger debate than this broomhead biz. Who would want to curl today with no in and out turns?! Anyone?

All this makes me just want to buy the most illegal waffle, diamond, coated, whatever High Tech broom.... bring on the abrasives! It will reduce my broom head costs long term. If that Blackhead was on the open market, I'd buy it just for fun.

Last edited by Alice on 11-07-15 at 06:46PM

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Registered: Feb 2011
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Posts: 61

I don't see why anyone would have an issue with the 'not naming of manufacturers''. How could you name manufacturers?

In the building profession, you have product specifications vs performance specs for materials. product, names an acceptable product and requires that any substitute must meet the same tech data and be reviewed. A performance spec lists the data and says any product must meet 'x' requirements.
....the WCF gave a performance spec.
That is the ONLY thing they could, or should, do.

My issue with the statement is that it reads actually like they did no 'testing' and needed to just get a ruling out there. One could've written that statement off of reading news stories about the beefs that players had and how the offending equipment is being dealt with now. 'Listening to players' could've been simply Glen Howard's remarks in the press to John Benton's teams 'testing' the IcePad recently to the players complaining to each other at the Masters (and how they let each other get around it). It really speaks nothing as to how wide a net they cast. Honestly, this reads like a high schooler's required essay that they crammed in the night before and put no time into it....and just cribbed a bunch of anecdotes off the internet.

If they got really 'detailed' in their research...they should've written it out a bit better. If they really did detailed 'analysis of various brush head fabrics'...then I'm guessing they would've already seen if any material was pushing the envelope of the acceptable physics of the game....and not just 'banned' some for this one event.

Anyway, they have the Euros in 2 weeks and I think this is just buying them time to maybe get some real work done (I hope). They're pretty lucky that Pac-Asia is first up...because of all the member governing bodies, they are the ones with the least clout.

I got an 'eq' as a gift....and I'm more that happy to put that aside until this gets sorted out.

p.s. basic head cleaning after league nights and rotating through a few is not really hard work. Personally, I'm lazy about doing it and I'm assuming most people don't want to (or know how). I spend far more time during the day doing things I probably don't need to....than the 2-3 min's it takes to properly clean a traditional cordura head.

Last edited by livem1 on 11-07-15 at 10:10PM

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Registered: Jan 2015
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Posts: 18

So the WCF has made a quasi decision. What is the CCA-OCA take on this? Which brooms can or cannot be used in OCA Playdowns?

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002

quote:

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Originally posted by MacCoach
So the WCF has made a quasi decision. What is the CCA-OCA take on this? Which brooms can or cannot be used in OCA Playdowns?

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

Don't see any official mention of this on the CCA website or the mixed site.

Here's hoping they at least name the products and not keep curlers in the dark the way the WCF has.

And livem1, this isn't the construction industry. Your analogy doesn't work here. This is like saying; 'some painkillers violate the doping rules but we're not going to tell you which ones they are'

You don't withhold that kind of information from your athletes. Unless you have an ulterior motive.

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Last edited by jamcan on 11-08-15 at 12:21PM

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Registered: Apr 2005
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Doesn't the rule have to be written to address the materials used? New products can be released, so writing a rule to address specific products would be futile.

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Registered: May 2014
Location: Joliet, IL
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quote:

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Originally posted by RockDoc
Doesn't the rule have to be written to address the materials used? New products can be released, so writing a rule to address specific products would be futile.

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Recreational curler & resident armchair curler at Windy City Curling Club.

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Registered: Feb 2011
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Posts: 61

quote:

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Originally posted by jamcan
Don't see any official mention of this on the CCA website or the mixed site.

Here's hoping they at least name the products and not keep curlers in the dark the way the WCF has.

And livem1, this isn't the construction industry. Your analogy doesn't work here. This is like saying; 'some painkillers violate the doping rules but we're not going to tell you which ones they are'

You don't withhold that kind of information from your athletes. Unless you have an ulterior motive.

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
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And...you're wrong.

Brand names are stated in doping as well as the type of drug. Every effort is made so athletes don't take the drug by accident -although that does still happen.

Not every team has a microscope or understands what the 'wov en, sealed fabric' looks like.

And why would you turn this back on the curlers to know all this? A governing body has the duty to be clear and concise. There is absolutely nothing out of line eith expecting them to name the equipment using the materials in question so teams can comply.

I'm not using an angle, as you imply, I'm calling for simple common sense to prevail. The WCF claims they've looked at products and decided to ban them until proper research can be done. Fine, Cool. What products are they?

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Registered: Aug 2014
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quote:

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Originally posted by livem1


you can ONLY 'describe' the material not to be used. For cycling, baseball, olympic sports, etc....they aren't going to name drug and steroid 'brands' and names of labs, right

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Registered: Feb 2006
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Posts: 92

Its not a matter of naming brooms and having them banned but a matter of being specific about fabric and extras like plastic plates that should be banned as well as a change in the sweeping rule. There are homemade heads being used at various levels so unless each head/broom is inspected who knows what people are playing with. Its too simplistic to just ban a certain broom manufacturer or to have them turn the fabric inside out. More to it than that.

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Registered: Feb 2012
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Is the rule distinction truly just any woven fabric or corn broom versus any sealed and/or embossed patterned surface? Would a fabric made of sealed fibers woven into a a very dense directional fabric be OK? Could I take a corn broom, dip in latex or varnish, let it dry and then use it? Or how about a knitted fabric as on some old rink rats because "knitted" is not "woven"? Think of all those Irish sweaters with cables and bobbles. A machine could easily knit a "directional" fabric with water repellant yarn. Just add some extra sheep oil (lanolin) to unwashed raw wool. Whoot! The ice would smelll of a barnyard.

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 60

Alice,

The WCF communication also says no homemade or custom broom heads, must be available for purchase from a curling supplier.

Dion.

Last edited by WarrMachine on 11-10-15 at 09:43AM

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