Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 631

quote:

---

Originally posted by Batty

Upsets happen. When tennis's Nadal gets ousted by a low seed is everyone then saying Nadal should't have to play the first two rounds at Wimbledon? He and Federer shouldn't have to play the first few days so they can be assured of being in the quarters, semis and finals?

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

The ice was absolute garbage in Alliston. An embarrassment to the club and painful to watch. I also was at the 2014 Tankard in Smiths Falls where Howard lost to Balsdon on a pick (although the team was skipped by Bice due to Balsdon's fractured ribs). So a mediocre team represented Ontario at the Brier and came home with a 5-6 win loss record. Once again because of crappy ice Ontario will send a team to the Brier with no hope of coming home with the title. You won't hear Howard complain about the ice to the media because he has too much class for that but those that were there saw it. It's like giving a golfer a baseball bat to putt. A beginner can get lucky and sink the ball while a champion can't execute the finesse and technique he is used to when faced with the same.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 99.251.152.169

Registered: Sep 2004
Location:
Posts: 50

Couldn't resist weighing in here about bad ice!

When people respond the ice is the same for both teams our coach use to say this 'So is the parking lot'

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

Alliston, eh? What year is this? Ham sandwich?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 209.141.201.135

Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 2

quote:

---

Originally posted by Unregistered
With 16 zones, 4 regions, and a challenge event, we ask 21 clubs to host Mens Tankard events alone each year in Ontario. Plus clubs rotate every year. You're going to run into bad ice somehwere along the line - it's simply inevitable (and it's not fair to blame any of those clubs).

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Kitchener
Posts: 380

quote:

---

Originally posted by peteski


Everyone would say that they shouldn't have to play the first two rounds at Wimbledon if the first two rounds were played on gravel or on lawns that weren't cut for a week. And while we're at it, some people have to play qualifying events to make it to Wimbledon while others are allowed to play based on the points they accumulate on the tour. What a travesty! That's favouritism for the tour players.

---

__________________
Excelsior!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

quote:

---

Originally posted by Batty
I still say if one skip could get in the hack to draw the four foot on these supposed crappy ice conditions and win the game facing an elite curler (that would be a pressure shot) then the elite curler is obviously more than capable of making the same shot.

Upsets happen. When tennis's Nadal gets ousted by a low seed is everyone then saying Nadal should't have to play the first two rounds at Wimbledon? He and Federer shouldn't have to play the first few days so they can be assured of being in the quarters, semis and finals?

At least in Ontario we offer the challenge round for when this happens. Unfortunately it conflicts with Skins. Something should have been looked at before the season (not only by Team Howard but by the OCA).
In Alberta three regional associations hold playdowns to qualify 8 spots, defending champ returns, top Alberta team in overall CTRS (if not already qualified) and then two more Alberta teams on points for events held inside the Alberta Federation boundaries. Makes a 12-team provincial. If you don't qualify out of that... there is no other recourse..try again next year.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 24.77.253.19

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

quote:

---

Originally posted by Batty


They also play on clay and on pavement besides grass which is sometimes wet and sometimes dry...and the players adapt/change how they play depending on the surface.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 24.77.253.19

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: kitchener
Posts: 147

The oca has a great ice team for making the provincial ice each year. Why couldn't that use them at the regional level as consultants?
Trying to have great ice down at the zone level would be tough, due to the fact that the oca just wants clubs to open up their ice for the events, but once clubs except a regional or provincial event you should have to bring ice standards into it.
even if the ice makers within the region were to consult with each other to make the best ice they could for each of event.
The benefit to this as well as it would help bring ice conditions up across the province and raise the level of play for all teams not just the elite.

just a thought.
steve. s

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

quote:

---

Originally posted by fresca
Do I read this right ? Howard prefers to play in the Continental cup instead of the Chalenge round... Both being held at the same time...

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 206.45.196.14

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1992

Apparently, Howard IS going to the challenge round now instead of the Skins Game.

Wise choice imo. Your season goal isn't to win the TSN Skins Game, it's to win the Brier.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Kitchener
Posts: 380

quote:

---

Originally posted by ObsessiveCurler
Apparently, Howard IS going to the challenge round now instead of the Skins Game.

Wise choice imo. Your season goal isn't to win the TSN Skins Game, it's to win the Brier.

---

__________________
Excelsior!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2004
Location:
Posts: 219

Pity the other teams in the challenge round, Team Howard will come out like bears with sore asses. lol

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Selkirk
Posts: 140

Glad to hear the the Howard Team is playing in the Challenge Round. although I felt he might go to the Skins for the chance at some good money. It will make for a more exciting Playdown.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002

Kind of figured they would change thier minds once they had day or 2 to think about it

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Kitchener
Posts: 380

Don Landry reporting the change of heart for Howard

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/e...tory&soc_trk=tw

__________________
Excelsior!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1418

There is only 1 team that should be considered to replace them in the skins game.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

obviously team mcewen

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 63.73.69.132

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

So I've heard the Club Ice at Bradford Curling Club (host of the challenge round) isn't exactly stellar. Do you think the OCA will bring in an Ice crew before the event to work on the ice and rocks? Maybe even bring in their Tankard rocks so we aren't having this same conversation again in two weeks about substandard conditions?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 108.170.136.229

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: .
Posts: 1844

quote:

---

Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
... face mostly tadpoles & grunts ...

---

__________________
Guest

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2015
Location:
Posts: 2

In all the talk about winning and losing and yes the ice conditions do make a difference. The OCA is made up of 200+ clubs that are mostly run by VOLUNTEERS!!!!! who are proud of their clubs that they have built. If you want ideal conditions then the entry fees will have to increase to allow the clubs be compensated for the time used in clubs. It could cost clubs many dollars to host an event with no revenue back. Rising electricity cost and other expenses are making it very hard for a small club to survive.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 7

quote:

---

Originally posted by Unregistered
So I've heard the Club Ice at Bradford Curling Club (host of the challenge round) isn't exactly stellar. Do you think the OCA will bring in an Ice crew before the event to work on the ice and rocks? Maybe even bring in their Tankard rocks so we aren't having this same conversation again in two weeks about substandard conditions?

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

quote:

---

Originally posted by gussr


Played Bradford last night. 25-25.5 seconds. 4 feet of curl. No picks. Rocks were matched and textured within the last few weeks. Still not good enough?

Practice ice is being made available upon request to all entries.

Perhaps getting an informed opinion instead of going by hearsay would be wise...

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 206.172.0.205

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

Shovel ALL high performance funds to clubs to improve ice.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 204.187.76.252

Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A

So I've read through a lot of this and thought I would add a few facts and even the occasional opinion. Team Squires and Team Heggestad were the winners this weekend and deserve all the credit in the world for their victories. Team Squires is a great young team and have a bright future. I look forward to watching them rise to the top over the next few years. Who knows, maybe this is the year for them to go through to the Brier.
The ice was tough this past weekend. That is to say tough by any level of championship standards. It was straight, edge of button to draw the button. We did find a spot or two you could get a rock half buried. We had a little luck late in games with rocks picking on the soft ice in the last few feet. Very random though. I don't think anyone would argue this point. I overheard Cory Heggestad in the A final say that he had lost 5 points on picks along. Ice like this creates a randomness to the result of each shot. That's all I have to say about straight ice. Either you get it or you don't.
The ice maker in Gravenhurst did what he could. I had many conversations with him and found him to be diligent and caring about his craft. The fact is the rocks are smooth on the bottom and will not curl. From the ice makers I've spoken with over the years there are two ways of getting curl, condition the rocks or build hills in the ice. The club in Gravenhurst does not believe in papering the rocks. The ice maker under the guidance of the OCA ice tech tried to warm the air temperature and ice temperature to get some curl during the second and third draws on Saturday. It did not work and created flat ice that picked very very frequently. He tried and I respect that.
Team Howard contacted the OCA two weeks before the event as we had heard the ice did not curl to any level of standards. An ice tech was dispatched to Gravenhurst but without the ability to sandpaper the rocks there was nothing to do. The rocks were profiled which I don't understand what this does to improve the conditions. In contrast, our zones were played in Midland where the ice tech papered the rocks 5 days before the zone. The competitors enjoyed a nice curl to the ice all weekend. Education needs to be done so clubs, the OCA and players understand how ice and rocks curl. Canada Curling stone can help any club that wants ice to curl. Call them. If you don't want ice to curl that's fine too. I get that some club members might enjoy curling on straight ice. There are standards for championship ice though. The Ontario regional is two levels away from the world championships!!! Championship conditions need to be strived for. I understand that this is not possible everywhere. It still needs to be the goal and I don't think it was in this instance. There are so many sites required by the OCA to run their events they will take any facility that will donate their building. I get it! This is a great reason for change and should be a factor when determining a better system.
There are about 80 teams who sign up to try and represent Canada here in Ontario. 40-50 of these men's teams train, practice and compete to try and improve and to get to a higher level. A system needs to be build for these teams. Read Bob Weeks blog for some ideas. I agree with everything he has written on this topic for the last 10 years. Doug Bakes garbage can is full of proposals from Ontario curlers who have tried to move the game forward.

Douglas1234, you are a rep of the OCA. If you don't "get it" that's ok, stay out of the way. You don't get it! The technology is available to have ice conditions comparable to championship events. When it comes to changes to the system, let the OCA player reps do their job by having ideas flow directly to Steve Chenier and educated people on the subject of championship curling. The player reps understand what the present and future teams need and want. Steve C is a guy who wants to make things right and he doesn't need old guard getting in the way. I watched you toe the party line last spring at the special meetings. Make a difference in this sport or get the hell out of the way.
Jake Higgs and Susan McKnight, find out what works for the 50 men's and 30 women's teams that take this sport seriously in Ontario and make the change. If we don't get it right the first time no one will hold it against you. We'll keep trying until we get it right.
None of this is about Team Howard and this past weekend. I would say that a bright light has been shined on this subject once again though. This should be about the 50 men and 30 women's teams in the system and any junior team's that dream of being a champion some day. I've already retired once, my next one is not far away and neither is Glenn's. Please believe me when I say none of this is self serving. It's merely opinions from people who have played in the system for 30 years or more and have been at the top and have been at the bottom.

For anyone who is about to get on here and tear me a new A@@hole for going after a volunteer. I'm one too. Go for it!If I'm getting in the way of progress I want someone to tell me! Please don't let me hide behind the title of volunteer. I still need to be accountable. If someone needs to contact me privately my email is rhart@hart-well.com. If you want to discuss in person please join me and the TCA at Bathurst and Dundas (city of Toronto) this Sunday morning for the grand opening of an outdoor curling initiative that has been driven by the TCA with the support of the OCA and city of Toronto.
Good Curling everyone!
Rich Hart

Report this post to a moderator | IP: 65.93.38.208