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02-21-16 05:43PM |
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Marco2010
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2011
Location: Montréal
Posts: 81 |
No More Blowouts
What would happen if the team behind in the score got to keep last rock advantage until the score was tied or they got a lead? Would it make it more interesting? Would it make games closer? Would the best team win anyway? That's what happened in one of our leagues in the club. The rule was put in play to give weaker teams a better chance of staying in the game instead of quitting after 6 ends.
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02-21-16 05:53PM |
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Frozencanuck
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Jan 2015
Location:
Posts: 76 |
Unfortunately no reasonable rule changes will prevent blowouts at the nationals, as the teams are just too unevenly matched. That is the great dilemma, in order to maintain an across Canada field, much weaker teams will be there, and blowouts will occur. The only way to get the best teams at the nationals is to drop the idea of Provincial reps. Not going to happen
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02-21-16 06:04PM |
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Gerry
CZ Founder
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002 |
This is a rule change that while wouldn't eliminate them, would definitely change the game. It's like worth a test somewhere.
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02-21-16 06:17PM |
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johnnysmoke
Drawmaster
Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 612 |
I think this is the single best idea ever posted on Curlingzone. Blank ends may go the way of the dodo. You would see a lot more steals, like a ton more...
Except it gets complicated, and perhaps unfairly shifting to the losing team, with scenarios like 2 down in the ninth with hammer for example.
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02-21-16 07:07PM |
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Ajay
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 570 |
I can see this at the club (fun) level but definitely does not belong at the elite/national levels. Hardly think JJs first game warranted this type of accommodation .
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02-21-16 08:02PM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
Re: No More Blowouts
quote: Originally posted by Marco2010
What would happen if the team behind in the score got to keep last rock advantage until the score was tied or they got a lead? Would it make it more interesting? Would it make games closer? Would the best team win anyway? That's what happened in one of our leagues in the club. The rule was put in play to give weaker teams a better chance of staying in the game instead of quitting after 6 ends.
So you want to punish teams for being good? A whole generation of kids grew up believing that there were no winners/losers in minor sports and that the score didn't matter. It is time to dispel that myth.
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02-21-16 08:24PM |
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Marco2010
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2011
Location: Montréal
Posts: 81 |
The idea isn't to punish good teams. The intent is to minimize the impact of 1 bad end and the possibility of the leading team blanking you to death. It allows you to go for it because if things go wrong you have a better chance of scoring points with last rock. Whatever the rules top teams will adapt and prevail. Ryan and Martin were peelers but they continued winning after the rule changes.
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02-21-16 09:39PM |
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Donr
Hitting Paint
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Selkirk
Posts: 140 |
If you look at the scoring in most of the "blow out" games the winning team stole big ends and stole multiple times in those games.....I don't see retaining the hammer by the losing team to be that much help.
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02-22-16 04:06AM |
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curlo
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 85 |
what if:
the game is split in 2 halfs of 4 ends each (lets call them sets from tennis). one team starts with hammer in the first set and the other team starts with hammer in the second set. (basically you play 2 4 end games). If one team wins both sets then they win the game. If they win one set you have some kind of shoot-out/extra end to determin the winner.
This way even if you give up a big score early you still have a reasonable chance of winning. Ok you lose the first set, but if your of equal skill you have a good chance of winning the second set and still winning the game.
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02-22-16 08:16AM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
someone thats ahead 6-1 after 4 for example shouldnt be having to play without hammer for however many ends it takes for the other team to catch up. what if they never do
there are always going to be blow outs. there's really nothing you can do to stop this
maybe a rule could be put in that there's a certain number of ends you are allowed to blank or maybe a team thats up by a big amount like 5 points after 4 ends cant use the tick shot or cant peel guards until 3rd stones and that that way the team behind has a better chance of getting something going
Last edited by misty1 on 02-22-16 at 08:19AM
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02-22-16 08:27AM |
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Netz
Swing Artist
Registered: Oct 2002
Location:
Posts: 222 |
I would like to see the rule changed to "if you blank end you lose the hammer".
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02-22-16 08:33AM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
quote: Originally posted by Netz
I would like to see the rule changed to "if you blank end you lose the hammer".
maybe the rule could be you cant blank more than one end in a row and then if you do you lose the hammer. i have no problem with teams getting used to the ice by blanking the first end.
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02-22-16 10:20AM |
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Ajay
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 570 |
If these suggested changes were implemented , I would switch to watching darts.
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02-22-16 11:17AM |
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jfletch2424
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Aug 2015
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 14 |
May as well chime in as well...
What if each team were allowed 2 blanks per game where they could still retain the hammer? It might force more play in the 1st end and would result in more strategic game planning (ie. non-hammer teams trying to force blanks early in the game). By the time the 8th and 9th ends rolled around, still having a blank or two in the bank could be advantageous.
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02-22-16 03:04PM |
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Gerry
CZ Founder
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002 |
quote: Originally posted by Netz
I would like to see the rule changed to "if you blank end you lose the hammer".
I believe this would make the game worse. Teams without the hammer would have no incentive to pressure the opposition. At least with the blank, the team with hammer has an out to try and protect against being forced to one.
To create a situation where you have lots of rocks in play, you need to create incentives for both teams to play aggressive.
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02-22-16 07:36PM |
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milobloom
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 839 |
After watching provincial playdowns and preparing myself to watch Scotties this week, it has become more apparent than ever that 5 rock FGZ should be adopted for all play. It has a minimal impact to most situations, but adds considerably to strategy and playmaking requirements when a team is down 2 with hammer, which happens very often in a game. I noticed in watching playdowns that the best teams are very strong at avoiding deuces when 2 up, and rarely surrender a 3 in these situations. It can take several ends for teams to generate any real offense (most of which can be boring to watch), and even if they are able to score 2 to tie, their opponent is still in an enviable position to win the game, especially in the later stages.
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02-23-16 05:44AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
Re: No More Blowouts
quote: Originally posted by Marco2010
What would happen if the team behind in the score got to keep last rock advantage until the score was tied or they got a lead? Would it make it more interesting? Would it make games closer? Would the best team win anyway? That's what happened in one of our leagues in the club. The rule was put in play to give weaker teams a better chance of staying in the game instead of quitting after 6 ends.
Kind of like giving the team that is losing a baseball game 5 outs until they come back and tie the score... or giving the hockey team that is losing an indefinite power play until they tie the score...
No, thanks.
It doesn't really give the worse team much incentive to improve, does it? "Hey, guys - we don't have to work to improve - we just need to take advantage of a rule that gives us an advantage. This is great!"
The best team on a given day will win, all things being equal. That is how nature intended it to be. Don't mess with the natural order of things.
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Last edited by On The Nose on 02-23-16 at 05:47AM
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02-23-16 08:16AM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
1) If a team is being blown out in curling, then they usually keep the hammer
2) If a team is being blown out in curling, likely they are not blanking the ends
3) Yes leave things the way they are. If your team is so bad they are being blown out, shake hands and go have a drink
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Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.
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02-23-16 11:47AM |
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Jimbobogie
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 538 |
What if any team that plays the Maple Leafs or Oilers has to play a man short?
What would be the point of declaring a champion if the only way they were able to win was to handicap their opponent?
Just like the US Open in golf-some golfers may not really belong in the field but that's the way the field is set up.
The Scotties and Brier are based on Provincial/Territorial representation. There's always the Pro Tour to satisfy those who want to see "Best on Best" right?
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02-23-16 12:06PM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
or you do like every curling club in the world and have flights where you play against teams that are similar in caliber...wait what a great idea and you wouldn't have to butcher the game.
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02-23-16 12:56PM |
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curlersrus
Knee-Slider
Registered: Aug 2007
Location:
Posts: 9 |
None of these changes will fix the biggest problem in curling.
In a tie game in the last end when 2 ticks are made or a double peel is made then the game becomes boring.
We need the EGL (Eternal Guard Line)
A 4 inch thick line 6 ft in front of the house across the ice, any time a rock is placed on the line it cannot be removed from play just like FGZ. All players would have to learn the tick and a skip would have a chance of stealing even with just his 2 rocks left if he can place his first rock on the line.
Only other difference from FGL rules is if the rock on the line is removed from play only that rock is replaced and not any of the rocks it displaces. With this additional rule the rock could still be used for runbacks by all players and only the rock that was on the line gets put back.
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02-23-16 01:25PM |
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Gerry
CZ Founder
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002 |
quote: Originally posted by curlersrus
None of these changes will fix the biggest problem in curling.
In a tie game in the last end when 2 ticks are made or a double peel is made then the game becomes boring.
We need the EGL (Eternal Guard Line)
A 4 inch thick line 6 ft in front of the house across the ice, any time a rock is placed on the line it cannot be removed from play just like FGZ. All players would have to learn the tick and a skip would have a chance of stealing even with just his 2 rocks left if he can place his first rock on the line.
Only other difference from FGL rules is if the rock on the line is removed from play only that rock is replaced and not any of the rocks it displaces. With this additional rule the rock could still be used for runbacks by all players and only the rock that was on the line gets put back.
Another interesting idea.
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02-23-16 01:28PM |
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ngm
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2011
Location:
Posts: 272 |
ALL IDEAS ARE BAD.
STOP HAVING IDEAS.
THEY ARE RUINING THE GAME THAT HAS NOT CHANGED SINCE THE TIME OF JESUS ******.
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02-23-16 02:04PM |
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Skinz
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40 |
quote: Originally posted by curlersrus
None of these changes will fix the biggest problem in curling.
In a tie game in the last end when 2 ticks are made or a double peel is made then the game becomes boring.
We need the EGL (Eternal Guard Line)
A 4 inch thick line 6 ft in front of the house across the ice, any time a rock is placed on the line it cannot be removed from play just like FGZ. All players would have to learn the tick and a skip would have a chance of stealing even with just his 2 rocks left if he can place his first rock on the line.
Only other difference from FGL rules is if the rock on the line is removed from play only that rock is replaced and not any of the rocks it displaces. With this additional rule the rock could still be used for runbacks by all players and only the rock that was on the line gets put back.
Good luck trying to measure if a rock is actually touching the line.
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