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04-20-19 01:10PM
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hogged again
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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All the changes over the past years--the three, four and now five rock rule--have been brought in for the same reason--to make things more entertaining and grow the game.

Have they worked? No. The demographic for curling is the same as it was five, ten thirty years ago--old white folks. Making things more complicated--the rock is touching the line, can't touch this-it's one inch over, tick away--is not going to help.

At least they are testing it in a cash spiel and not an important event. Despite the propaganda from the pro curlers about how the tour is the best curling ever, it will never reach the level of the national championships. Give me a choice between Koe vs Gushue in a slam for ten million dollars and a round robin Scotties game between PEI and BC and I'm watching the provinces battle like everyone else.

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04-22-19 09:05AM
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Deliverer
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Not exactly my thoughts.

Don't care if I'm watching tennis, golf, boxing, track & field or some team sports like baseball, hockey or curling, I'm always going to give preference to those competing for the big bucks -V- those who might possibly win a Molson T Shirt.

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04-22-19 07:56PM
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guido
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quote:
Originally posted by hogged again
All the changes over the past years--the three, four and now five rock rule--have been brought in for the same reason--to make things more entertaining and grow the game.

Have they worked? No.



They absolutely have worked. Can you imagine how many rocks would be in play if there were none of these rules???
Most games would be 1-0. The skill level has risen only because of these rules. That being said, I think the game is right where it should be. No need for any rule changes right now.

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04-23-19 11:07AM
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Some people from the '80s will argue till their death that peeling out 10 perfect ends and winning 1-0 is the purist form of skill.

I will argue that the tick shot is definitely a skill that has been mastered by all slam teams, and that it leads to the same result as a pre-fgz peel 'em out end.

I welcome this change. And if you are going to test it, test it with your best (Champions Cup).

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04-23-19 12:15PM
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guido
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quote:
Originally posted by mikey
Some people from the '80s will argue till their death that peeling out 10 perfect ends and winning 1-0 is the purist form of skill.

I will argue that the tick shot is definitely a skill that has been mastered by all slam teams, and that it leads to the same result as a pre-fgz peel 'em out end.

I welcome this change. And if you are going to test it, test it with your best (Champions Cup).



I am from the '80's. Grew up in a small town where the pre-requisite to curl was throwing a 12 second guard. Peeling is a skill that requires throwing hard in the general vicinity of the broom. A tick shot requires much more skill and teamwork. It is a lower percentage shot than a peel. This rule will take the advantage of hammer away.

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04-23-19 01:08PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
Not exactly my thoughts.

Don't care if I'm watching tennis, golf, boxing, track & field or some team sports like baseball, hockey or curling, I'm always going to give preference to those competing for the big bucks -V- those who might possibly win a Molson T Shirt.



Prize money does not always define prestige or importance.

Look at golf. The tournament with the biggest purse and the strongest field is the Players Championship. The players have tried to call it the 5th major but the public hasn't bought in and it hasn't reached the level of importance of the real majors.
Every golfer in Canada knows that Mike Weir won the Masters. How many remember that Stephen Ames won the Players?

Same goes for curling. Even if the Canada Cup, the Champions Cup or the Skins game offered a million dollar prize they would still be secondary to the Brier, Scotties and Trials. (In fact, I believe that a Brier or Scotties win is worth more than any Slam financially but that hardly gets mentioned because the prestige of winning the Maple Leaf takes precedence over a bagful of cash)
Most curling fans know Koe has 4 Briers and Carey has 2 Scotties. How many know how many Slam majors they've won?
If the Canada Cup becomes the qualifier for the Worlds it will rise in stature because of that, not due to prize money.

Last edited by hogged again on 04-23-19 at 01:39PM

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04-23-19 01:28PM
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alex
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Harvey is right, IMHO.

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04-23-19 06:06PM
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CC will never be the qualifier for the worlds - no matter how much Gerry and his band of merry slam mates dream.

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04-23-19 10:22PM
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jamcan
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quote:
Originally posted by mikey
Some people from the '80s will argue till their death that peeling out 10 perfect ends and winning 1-0 is the purist form of skill.

I will argue that the tick shot is definitely a skill that has been mastered by all slam teams, and that it leads to the same result as a pre-fgz peel 'em out end.

I welcome this change. And if you are going to test it, test it with your best (Champions Cup).



You might do well by remembering that it was curlers from the 80's that noted the issue and created the Free Guard Zone rule. We didn't like 1-0 peeling games either.

We also foresaw that teams would begin to play and utilize the tick shot as a form of defense. It remains an extremely difficult shot at the best of times.

What we didn't forsee was how someone would get the powers to be to start using juiced rocks that go screaming to the boards if your peel misses it by an inch and perfectly frozen stones act like pool balls when hit with hack fricking weight.

The only reason you probably welcome this change is because you're usually trailing in the last end due to poor play in the previous 7 or 9 ends.

As for testing it in a marquee event that's supposedly better than the brier, well it takes a special kind of stupid to think its a good thing.

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04-23-19 10:27PM
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misty1
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quote:
Originally posted by decade
CC will never be the qualifier for the worlds - no matter how much Gerry and his band of merry slam mates dream.


if there's one thing these last 5 years have taught me it's never say never. especially now that things are in the hands of a bunch of people who seemingly think all change is good change.

you could say that if that change was ever made the outcry from fans and maybe curlers themselves would be huge. having said that its been made very clear that curling canada doesnt give a damn about the fans or even the players. so do i thinkg that one day the brier/scotties could be nothing more than a spiel? yes i do . and it may come earlier than we think. the fact that its even being discussed at the higher level should be scary and concerning for everyone because that means it's already been considered and it will be again. canada isnt winning enough for curling canada excs to be comfortable. i would wager a guess that within the next decade the canada cup will be the event that decides the national champion

5 years ago i would have said never in my lifetime. now i'm not so sure. if that happens though i will leave curling. i will not watch it.

Last edited by misty1 on 04-23-19 at 10:34PM

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04-24-19 02:04PM
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"Prize money does not always define prestige or importance."

Of course it doesn't, especially in curling. Few would doubt the most prestigious event in curling is the Olympics, despite the fact in terms of competitiveness it ranks well below the Canadian Championships, The Canadian Trials, and all of the Grand Slams.

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04-25-19 07:18PM
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It's early but I like the changes so far. Lots of rocks in play in the middle of the sheet makes the finish more exciting.

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04-26-19 07:12AM
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On The Nose
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quote:
Originally posted by Gamer
It's early but I like the changes so far. Lots of rocks in play in the middle of the sheet makes the finish more exciting.

And if they put strobe lights on the rocks and brooms, and play dramatic music while the rocks travel down the ice, it'd be even more exciting, huh?

Yes, let's focus on pleasing those who have a 2 second attention span, who find the game 'too complicated' to understand, who require perpetual 'excitement', and who hold no value for actual ability or strategy...

Lets cater to the lowest common denominator and continue to lower the standards - in the name of 'growing the game'... sigh...

Your game may attract the video game crowd, but it will, of course, be only a temporary attraction. That's what happens when you place the focus on style instead of on substance, and try to create a very artificial 'excitement'.

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04-26-19 10:11AM
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Gamer: I'm glad there are still some people here that can keep an open mind. Ignore the trolls, they get upset if you have a different opinion than theirs.

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04-26-19 03:51PM
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I also have no problem with trying this rule in an event like this. It might stick it might not but no biggie either way.

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04-27-19 12:33AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mikey
Gamer: I'm glad there are still some people here that can keep an open mind. Ignore the trolls, they get upset if you have a different opinion than theirs.

People who have the same opinion as you are "open minded"... while people who possess an opinion which is not the same as yours are "trolls".
Got it.

Hypocrisy is your strong point.

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04-27-19 05:30PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mikey
Gamer: I'm glad there are still some people here that can keep an open mind. Ignore the trolls, they get upset if you have a different opinion than theirs.


It’s a shame some posters can’t state their POV without snark. I don’t think they’re trolls; just rude people incapable of making a point with civility . They must be fun at parties.

I like what Kevin Martin said about the tick shot rule trial. He didn’t know what he thought about it until he’d seen it implemented a few times. That’s where I’m at.

Last edited by Jayelle on 04-27-19 at 05:34PM

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04-27-19 08:43PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jayelle


It’s a shame some posters can’t state their POV without snark. I don’t think they’re trolls; just rude people incapable of making a point with civility . They must be fun at parties.


Or maybe they're people who are simply fed up with the constant tinkering with the game they love (and which ain't broke), trying to create a very fake and artificial 'excitement' just for the sake of a few extra cheap ratings points on TV.

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04-27-19 08:59PM
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Those who have knowledge, don't predict; those who predict, don't have knowledge.

So Here Goes!!

The Finalists: Edin -V- Bottcher

: Homan -V- M'H


The Winners: Bottcher & Homan

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04-27-19 10:25PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
Those who have knowledge, don't predict; those who predict, don't have knowledge.

So Here Goes!!

The Finalists: Edin -V- Bottcher

: Homan -V- M'H


The Winners: Bottcher & Homan




Very Zen of you Deliverer. Reminds of the old Confucius saying, "He who looks to the sky for help, shall get sore neck."

With the tick trial, I agree with On the Nose, this time I'll say "You're on the nose."

Do these trials in the Wednesday night league at Mike Harris's home club, who seems to like this, instead of when there's thousands of dollars, CTRS points, which affects future OLYMPIC qualifying, and future invites to the slams on the line.

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04-27-19 11:46PM
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quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose

Or maybe they're people who are simply fed up with the constant tinkering with the game they love (and which ain't broke), trying to create a very fake and artificial 'excitement' just for the sake of a few extra cheap ratings points on TV.



Fair enough. Be fed up. You’re allowed. Express that without snark.

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04-28-19 12:07AM
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Whenever Mike Harris makes a comment, I think Kevin Martin wonders “ how the hell did I lose to this guy in 98”.

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04-28-19 12:21AM
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quote:
Originally posted by guido
Whenever Mike Harris makes a comment, I think Kevin Martin wonders “ how the hell did I lose to this guy in 98”.



You mean "Family Guy."

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04-28-19 12:26AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jayelle


Fair enough. Be fed up. You’re allowed. Express that without snark.


You telling me that I must express myself in a way which pleases you is far more arrogant than is the manner in which I've stated my opinion on the 'no tick shot' rule.

My purpose is to express my perspective honestly, and as I see fit - not to express myself in a manner which pleases you and the 'politically correct' crowd.

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04-28-19 01:55AM
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2



You mean "Family Guy."



Peter Griffin

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