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| 02-01-22 11:07AM |
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EPMD
Swing Artist
Registered: Jan 2017
Location:
Posts: 202 |
While I agree that the most likely outcome of the Nunavut stone was going to be one point for either team, I'm good with the 3 points going to NO. You can't fall on all of the scoring rocks in the house and expect the other team to imagine how your shot would have turned out had you stayed on your feet.
The dubious part was when NO was saying they thought the shot was going to result in 3 points anyway. How they thought it was missing everything, I'll never know. That was either an outright lie or just wishful thinking.
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| 02-01-22 11:16AM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
USUALLY.... when there’s an incident, the non offending team,NO can place or replace the stones to where they thought they would have ended up, within reason. If the non offending team does not agree with the outcome decided, they can ask for the official to “help” with the decision. It appears in this case the official interjected his interpretation of what happened without being summoned.
Again, they should have reviewed the replay all of them together, alleviating any hint of unsportsmanlike conduct from NO. They’re not at fault, but knew better and didn’t help the situation.
Similar to Homan at the Olympics. She was in her right to make the call she did, but she was wrong and knew it.
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| 02-01-22 11:28AM |
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bc-fan
Knee-Slider
Registered: Feb 2020
Location:
Posts: 3 |
Very simple obvious call for NO to make rocks barely moving
If they were ahead by a bunch they probably show sportsmanship umpire not needed
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| 02-01-22 11:44AM |
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guido
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1418 |
At this level of competition, there should be no grey area. There are a bunch of officials at the event. They keep score, measure rocks, on rare occasions watch the hogline and time time outs.
They should be the only, and final decision on all burnt rocks past the hogline. Don’t put the onus on any players.
__________________
It’s me!
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| 02-01-22 11:53AM |
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Hack Weight
Hitting Paint
Registered: Dec 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 131 |
Can someone explain the playoff format. Haven’t watched much on TV so far and the CC website and guide are less than clear on it. Top 3 in each pool advance in some capacity, though confused what happens from there to get to the page playoffs.
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| 02-01-22 11:56AM |
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hogged again
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2019
Location:
Posts: 659 |
The easiest solution to avoid these extremely rare burned rock events is to give each team a replay challenge. Either team (in this case NU) can ask for a replay official to decide what would've happenned. Could also be used on hog line violations where the electronics say violation but the player doesn't think so. Wouldn't cause serious delays as this would be used about once every 4 Scotties.
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| 02-01-22 11:56AM |
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GregJP
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 378 |
quote:
Originally posted by Hack Weight
Can someone explain the playoff format. Haven’t watched much on TV so far and the CC website and guide are less than clear on it. Top 3 in each pool advance in some capacity, though confused what happens from there to get to the page playoffs.
As far as I understand it 2 vs 3 and 3 vs 2 and the losers are eliminated. That gets you to 4 teams. It's probably page playoffs after that.
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| 02-01-22 11:59AM |
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GregJP
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 378 |
quote:
Originally posted by guido
At this level of competition, there should be no grey area. There are a bunch of officials at the event. They keep score, measure rocks, on rare occasions watch the hogline and time time outs.
They should be the only, and final decision on all burnt rocks past the hogline. Don’t put the onus on any players.
I agree with this 100%. If there are replays available the umpire should make the call with no input from the teams.
At lower levels go with the non-offending team making the decision.
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| 02-01-22 12:05PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by Hack Weight
Can someone explain the playoff format.
2v3 crossover, losers eliminated, winners challenge 1 to seed page playoff.
In other words,
B2vA3, winner challenges A1, loser eliminated.
A2vB3, winner challenges B1, loser eliminated.
Winners of the challenges goes to page 1v2 game. Losers goes to page 3v4 game.
Winner of 1v2 goes to final, loser goes to semifinal.
Winner of 3v4 goes to semifinal, loser is eliminated.
Winner of semifinal goes to final, loser is bronze.
Winner of final is gold, loser is silver.
There's some additional rules about tiebreaker games, which is limited to max 1 game.
Last edited by curlingclips on 02-01-22 at 12:07PM
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| 02-01-22 12:30PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
Similar to Homan at the Olympics. She was in her right to make the call she did, but she was wrong and knew it.
No modern day WCF/Curling Canada umpire would have a problem with what Homan did.
You should listen to podcast interviews of umpires. Canadian Hall of Famers Rae Kells was Chief Umpire at 2 Olympics, and she explained why Homan did nothing wrong.
You are free to make up your own minds about what curling is, of course, but that doesn't mean that it accurately represents the actual reality.
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| 02-01-22 12:43PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
You can listen to people that she did nothing wrong, which is a correct statement. However, doing nothing wrong is a far cry from “doing what’s right”. Go back back and find the clip, you’re good at that. Watch it, listen to the players, even on her own team, then comment again.
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| 02-01-22 12:54PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
Watch it, listen to the players, even on her own team, then comment again.
Give me verifiable quotes. Don't just make stuff up and then run away and hide.
Here's some in support of Homan.
https://nationalpost.com/sports/oly...ng-women-so-far
quote:
Miskew said the Canadians did not know what the effect of the rock being burnt would be, so they felt they had no choice but to remove it.
“We have the option of removing that rock if we feel like we didn’t know where it would go when it was burnt,” Miskew said. “We chose to do that. We didn’t know how hard they burnt it or what happened. In not knowing, we chose to remove it.”
https://nationalpost.com/sports/oly...-up-at-olympics
quote:
Other Canadian curlers jumped to Homan’s defence, saying she did the right thing. And Marc Kennedy, who plays third for the Canadian men’s team, took it further, saying Homan is being wrongly criticized because of unfair rules.
“I’ll tell you what, curling has a rules problem,” Kennedy said. “That should never be a decision of the non-offending team. If you burn a rock in motion, it’s gone and it shouldn’t have anything to do with the opposing skip. I don’t care. It’s a stupid rule, it should be gone.
“It put Rachel in a terrible spot. It’s a problem and what I don’t like about it is people jump all over Rachel for it when she didn’t do anything wrong. That should have been Denmark’s problem. It’s not fair.”
Canadian second Brent Laing agreed that all burned rocks should be removed from play so there’s no decision to be made.
“It’s always been a problem,” he said. “We’ve talked about it for years and years. An old teammate of mine, Richie Hart, had a pretty simple rule: ‘Don’t touch the rocks and you don’t have any problems.’
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| 02-01-22 01:05PM |
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CURLER1
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Brandon
Posts: 1054 |
It was the way Homan did it and her attitude that upset a lot of people. Her right, but she could have been more considerate.
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| 02-01-22 01:13PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
Give me verifiable quotes. Don't just make stuff up and then run away and hide.
Here's some in support of Homan.
https://nationalpost.com/sports/oly...ng-women-so-far
https://nationalpost.com/sports/oly...-up-at-olympics
Don’t quote what people said after the fact. 10000 people can say nothing wrong with what she did by the rules, but different than the spirit of the game, the number one rule of curling. Again, Watch The Clip. I apologize I’m not certain who they were playing but I think it was Denmark if that helps you.
Also agree with above saying it was the way she did it.
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| 02-01-22 01:38PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
I have to say I'm loving this new Brunswick run and I hope they can keep it going . Also loving see northwest territories doing so well and hope they can make playoffs
One more thing I'm loving?. No russ or brian. This trio of vic, cheryl and Cathy is really working well for me. Less nonsensical chatted and cheryl is forced to stand on her own and she does a good job. In a perfect world they'd get rid of rus and Brian and move forward with these 3 but I know that'll never happen
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| 02-01-22 01:46PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
It appears in this case the official interjected his interpretation of what happened without being summoned.
Stop making stuff up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJSoiTw0Q_A&t=3m19s
Chief Umpire Brett Waldroff was summoned by the Game Umpire on the sheet (female, name unknown).
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| 02-01-22 02:19PM |
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GregJP
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 378 |
The wrong team was awarded the hammer. Amateur hour.
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| 02-01-22 02:30PM |
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lixit74
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 38 |
At 0.25 speed, its clear the sweeper on the left hit the stationary stone on the button (and the 2nd shot stone) and touched the running stone with her hand.
No one has any way of knowing of how the shot would have turned out, hence the call of removing the red rock.
I don't see an issue here. I don't see anyone having an opinion on why the LH sweeper DIDN'T stop sweeping before the guards, only on why NONT made the decision she did... If the sweeper would have stopped, the result would have been different for sure...
As for a mulligan, how could this be possible? The rocks in the rings were moved. In a sport that 0.1mm or less can make the difference of a win or loss, you can't put them back exactly in their original spots. Or even worse, you could deliberately burn a running stone to get a retake... Makes no sense.
I agree that the rules need to be updated. Burned running stone = removed from play. No exceptions.
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| 02-01-22 02:40PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by lixit74
Burned running stone = removed from play. No exceptions.
This was the original rule, but then some cheating bastards (no other way to put it) started abusing the rule by burning their stones on purpose if it's evident that it'll do more damage than good. So Harvey Mazinke changed the rule, which evolved into the current version.
In 2002, both WCF and Curling Canada made it obvious that removal is the default action.
For example, here's the Canadian rule compared, from 2000 to 2002.
https://web.archive.org/web/diff/20...?rulessection=7
You can see that they changed the wording from the non-offending team having 3 options, to having a default option (removal) with 2 alternatives.
I'm not sure why both WCF and Canada backtracked to having 3 options again.
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| 02-01-22 03:24PM |
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hogged again
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2019
Location:
Posts: 659 |
quote:
Originally posted by misty1
I have to say I'm loving this new Brunswick run and I hope they can keep it going . Also loving see northwest territories doing so well and hope they can make playoffs
One more thing I'm loving?. No russ or brian. This trio of vic, cheryl and Cathy is really working well for me. Less nonsensical chatted and cheryl is forced to stand on her own and she does a good job. In a perfect world they'd get rid of rus and Brian and move forward with these 3 but I know that'll never happen
Yes Crawford has been excellent, throws the up weight without the big shove a lot of players need and has made the touchy draws as well. Very powerful sweeping from the front end made a big difference last night as well.
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| 02-01-22 03:36PM |
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Love2Curl
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Toon Town
Posts: 106 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
This was the original rule, but then some cheating bastards (no other way to put it) started abusing the rule by burning their stones on purpose if it's evident that it'll do more damage than good. So Harvey Mazinke changed the rule, which evolved into the current version.
The rule had to be changed. Many years ago while curling in the BC playdowns, we had teams that were going to wreck on a guard burn the rock so it would not. It happened a few times. Cheating is what is was.
__________________
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| 02-01-22 03:38PM |
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GregJP
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 378 |
Note to Cathy.
It's Gerry Richard. Not Jerry Richards.
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| 02-01-22 04:23PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by Love2Curl
Many years ago while curling in the BC playdowns...
I'm not asking you to name names, but can you provide an era/time period of when this was? I assume this was decades ago?
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| 02-01-22 04:28PM |
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Observer
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2016
Location: River Falls, WI, USA
Posts: 445 |
This is nice…they’re going to allow registered volunteers into the stands to watch the weekend draws.
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