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04-05-21 10:49AM
Bmalky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Bmalky Find more posts by Bmalky Add Bmalky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Bmalky
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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quote:
Originally posted by fresca
Lol
Tsn and cc could care less about the viewers

They and the sponsors target potential purhasers of trucks , toilet paper, farm products , coffee etc with some loud commercial ( combines) and obnoxious children commercials and self promotion of network shows - dont bother to show lead rocks and plaster ice with silly annoying decals

Show only cdn games - youtube will take over soon in my humble opinion


Why wouldn't sponsors want to target potential customers? I live in the city and don't need a combine, but without these Canadian sponsors, we wouldn't have curling on TSN. They may be very repetitive, but I doubt international sponsors are lining up for the opportunity to broadcast curling to Canadians. As for the silly decals, even our curling club sells areas on the ice for advertising to generate revenue. NHL sells every inch (or centimetre if you prefer) of the boards for advertising. Given the economic hardships Covid is producing, getting sponsors is increasingly difficult. I've not been able to curl at all this year, so it's great to have this event on!

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04-05-21 10:59AM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by fresca
Lol
Tsn and cc could care less about the viewers


Here's a fun way to say that you're wrong about one thing: https://youtu.be/om7O0MFkmpw

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04-05-21 12:01PM
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CURLER1
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I often wonder, why can't we just be happy to see some curling after the year we have had?

We might as not see any with all the complaining going on.

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04-05-21 12:15PM
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Bmalky
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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quote:
Originally posted by CURLER1
I often wonder, why can't we just be happy to see some curling after the year we have had?

We might as not see any with all the complaining going on.


Well said! Some complaining, however, probably a product of our frustration with this past year!

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04-05-21 01:03PM
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hackfreeze
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quote:
Originally posted by CURLER1
the sensors (software), never came in time for the Scottie's or the Brier. They tried them for the Worlds and they kept malfunctioning. So, they decided to go without using them.


Sensor handles are always finicky, seen it on the ice myself - but I don't think there's any real software involved - there's the motion activation part (have to tilt the rock 90 degrees) and the sensing part - release before hitting the mag strip buried in the ice. And the surface of the handles (that senses the bare hand) wear in time so there are a few things that can go wrong - yet for 3 major events - we're back to players asking for hog line officials? Seems really odd that in the bubble - the only major event happening anywhere in the world - they couldn't find 4 sets of sensor handles that operate correctly.

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04-05-21 01:21PM
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Manitoba Legend
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What the heck happened to Johnny Wayne + Shuster this a.m.?

Just noticed the 10-1 score, USA losing to Canada.

Was it Jamie Koe Day in Calgary?

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04-05-21 03:45PM
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decade
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
What the heck happened to Johnny Wayne + Shuster this a.m.?

Just noticed the 10-1 score, USA losing to Canada.

Was it Jamie Koe Day in Calgary?


JS could not make any shot. His doubles missed, his draws missed. For the 5 ender his last shot was a long in off that didn't come close. Had to play 6 ends and took his 1 pt in the 6th.

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04-05-21 03:49PM
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Advertisement

In regards of advertising.

All sport seems to be able to have multi advertisement by juxtaposition.

Watch Raptors game the logo on the floor are different as the game goes along. We see it in soccer and NFL.

The CCA and WCT should request sponsor from abroad to advertise. They come here and earn Canadian funding and keep their own revenue from their personal advertisement and country funding.

Time to level the field and use our sponsor to develop our curlers.

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04-05-21 06:25PM
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Manitoba Legend
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B Bottcher getting whipped, bombed & vegetabled by Korea this afternoon, 8-3 Korea after 7 ends.

Bottcher needs a 3 in 8 to stay in the game. No more light-headed and relaxed Bottcher. He's tighter than a drum and so is Moulding. Front end looks like blood pressure spiking.

A loss to Korea isn't end of the world but may put Canada in the position of winning out to guarantee a playoff berth. No longer about winning all the games - its all about catching a playoff slot and re-calibrating for a medal run.

Usually its the women's teams that crash & burn - JJ & Homan only winning 33% of their world gold chances.
Kevin Martin only 1 for 3 in worlds, Kevin Koe is 2 for 3, Gushue 1 for 2.

Its a tough slug - and Bottcher is not invulnerable to demise. Hope he comes out a bit meaner and snarlier tomorrow!

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04-05-21 06:40PM
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Spoke too soon. Bottcher 4-bombed Korea in 8 and has the Koreans in major trouble in 9.
Bottcher virtually guaranteed a steal of 1 in 9, maybe 2 and possibly 3.
Korea now a reeling squad. . . ! ! !

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04-05-21 07:32PM
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Canada versus Korea definitely most exciting game. What a roller coaster. Almost missed it as TSN 1 didn't show it and that is where I was PVRing it. Started to watch about half way through and discovered I was taping a baseball game. Not sure why they did that. Can't imagine Cleveland vs. Kansas City that big a draw in Canada.

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04-05-21 08:00PM
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Korea had one bad end but full congrats to them for hanging tough and making some great shots in the 10th end. They seemed to throw rocks at a speed ( or lack of) that had Russ puzzled but that control weight worked well for them.

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04-05-21 08:22PM
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fresca
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Can only imagine how team feels

You win 50 games and win Brier

\/ king of the world !!

Then make 1 mistake in 11th against benoit - today korea

Deja vu all over again - and again and again

Worlds risk huge
Rewards minimal

Fingers crossed for the boys - hope they make playoffs and dont lose any more

Moulding had perfect excuse - should have retired last week

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04-05-21 10:54PM
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southerncurler
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🙄🙄

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04-06-21 02:40AM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2

I'm a little miffed I missed the game for turkey dinner now. Didn't set the pvr. Maybe curling clips can post ta clip he video for us.


Here's the WCF version of the CAN vs NED clip where Moulding asks for a hog line umpire. I haven't seen the TSN version yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar7o1oZuVVs

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04-06-21 07:45AM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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Thanks. It does look like he was going over in the early shots.

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04-06-21 08:21AM
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I'm no expert, but from what I can tell, with 1080p and slow motion (YouTube lets you adjust speed, in case you didn't know), Hoekman releases the grip before the hog line up until the time Moulding asked for a hog line official.

It's possible that the slightest finger touch may occur at/after the hog line, but the handle itself looks out of his grip before the hog line.

But I also couldn't see what Gushue saw with regards to Myers, so I'll just give these elite champion curlers the benefit of the doubt.

Personally I think a camera judge at the hog line is what curling needs, not some fancy schmancy electronic handles. Have multiple high speed high resolution cameras installed at hog lines. Give each team 3 challenges per game, where they can request to see instant replay when they believe a delivery is illegal. If photos can't clearly prove/disprove it, then so be it, nothing is perfect. Maybe next time they can install better cameras at more angles.

The key here is that since this is a type of violation that can be determined visually, it needs photographic evidence of the actual infraction, not some red light/green light LEDs.

(Although I will concede that it's possible to perfect the Eye on the Hog technology so that we can just accept the judgement of the red/green lights with no photographic evidence of the infraction, but obviously we've found out over the years that the system is flawed with plenty of incidences of false positives).

Last edited by curlingclips on 04-06-21 at 09:09AM

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04-06-21 09:33AM
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Manitoba Legend
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Don't tell Team Bottcher (particularly Karrick Martin) but it appears 4 LOSSES will jettison teams into the playoff round.

That would give Team Bot two more losses of rope before bowing out.

Can see CAN losing 1 more game in the RR, 2 would be highly unlikely but possible and 3 would signal catastrophic consequences (think of Rachel Homan panicking out of the Olympics)

Canada has to hope the #1 team now continues to win. It means Canada is conceding #1 to them but hoping they can help clear the way to a soft landing to a spot at #2 thru #4.
4 losses prolly means a tie-breaker immo. (or the stats attribution)

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04-06-21 09:41AM
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Bmalky
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
I'm no expert, but from what I can tell, with 1080p and slow motion (YouTube lets you adjust speed, in case you didn't know), Hoekman releases the grip before the hog line up until the time Moulding asked for a hog line official.

It's possible that the slightest finger touch may occur at/after the hog line, but the handle itself looks out of his grip before the hog line.

But I also couldn't see what Gushue saw with regards to Myers, so I'll just give these elite champion curlers the benefit of the doubt.

Personally I think a camera judge at the hog line is what curling needs, not some fancy schmancy electronic handles. Have multiple high speed high resolution cameras installed at hog lines. Give each team 3 challenges per game, where they can request to see instant replay when they believe a delivery is illegal. If photos can't clearly prove/disprove it, then so be it, nothing is perfect. Maybe next time they can install better cameras at more angles.

The key here is that since this is a type of violation that can be determined visually, it needs photographic evidence of the actual infraction, not some red light/green light LEDs.

(Although I will concede that it's possible to perfect the Eye on the Hog technology so that we can just accept the judgement of the red/green lights with no photographic evidence of the infraction, but obviously we've found out over the years that the system is flawed with plenty of incidences of false positives).


All three Canada members at that end talked about him being over the line, it wasn't just Moulding. The view from the front doesn't accurately show when the release is finished. I saw it too and he looks over the line. If it had been once, I don't think Canada would have said anything. The vast majority of the curlers are following the honour system concerning the hogline.
As for the Mixed Doubles and Muyres, he was well over the line (almost a half body length) when he released it.
As for your suggestion of cameras and challenges, please no!! It would slow the game down even more! The handles work fine over 99% of the time. They have had no chance to test the new handles so there may be some kinks to work out. The old handles are almost obsolete or reached their life expectancy.

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04-06-21 10:05AM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by Bmalky
The handles work fine over 99% of the time.

There had been notable examples of false positives at the highest levels of the sport over the years. If you ignore those, then yeah, the handle works okay, but that's just living in denial. The handle is flawed and problematic, is the only proper conclusion, if we want to use it as the official judges of our sport.

Maybe the new handle is better. I would certainly hope so. But the old ones are problematic.

Some of the clearest examples:
Amy Nixon, WWCC 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgHzJGMRKXs
Ma Jingyi, Pyeongchang 20018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9bq5Ya7zPE
Emma Miskew, 2019 Scotties https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38uh6w_Ir6M

And the biggest gong show, exacerbated by the worst officiating decision of all time:

Nadine Lehmann, 2013 WMDCC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IfJ1uG3KQ0

I do concede, as before, that the technology can certainly be improved to fix these problems. Whether these next gen handles actually satisfy this requirement is still an unanswered question.

Last edited by curlingclips on 04-06-21 at 10:36AM

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04-06-21 10:13AM
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there must be more to the story re handles

they used them for 20 years

all of a sudden the old ones dissappeared and the new ones didnt arrive - they had a year

maybe too expensive or someone didnt pay

if someone goes over line , i would kick the rock off and if the guy started anything i would drop him with my cane like mosca took down joe kapp

curling needs a little blood once in awhile - like hockey and golf

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04-06-21 12:24PM
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hogged again
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips

There had been notable examples of false positives at the highest levels of the sport over the years. If you ignore those, then yeah, the handle works okay, but that's just living in denial. The handle is flawed and problematic, is the only proper conclusion, if we want to use it as the official judges of our sport.




The technology is not perfect but neither are humans. There was one world's before the technology was installed where Randy Ferbey had several rocks removed for hog line violations. This resulted in suspicions of the officials making the call. The technology can't be accused of bias against a certain team/country. And the eye is easily deceived, there have been many times where it looked to me that a player released the rock over the line but the green light said no. This is especially true of players with a release like the Ned 2nd where he just opens his hand.
Personally I don't think it makes much difference if a player releases the rock over the line, 6 inches isn't that big a difference but you have to have rules and enforce them and the technology seems to be the best way.

Last edited by hogged again on 04-06-21 at 12:26PM

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04-06-21 12:57PM
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Manitoba Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by hogged again


The technology is not perfect but neither are humans. There was one world's before the technology was installed where Randy Ferbey had several rocks removed for hog line violations. This resulted in suspicions of the officials making the call. The technology can't be accused of bias against a certain team/country. And the eye is easily deceived, there have been many times where it looked to me that a player released the rock over the line but the green light said no. This is especially true of players with a release like the Ned 2nd where he just opens his hand.
Personally I don't think it makes much difference if a player releases the rock over the line, 6 inches isn't that big a difference but you have to have rules and enforce them and the technology seems to be the best way.



Perhaps they just need signs at the hog-lines indicating "PLEASE RELEASE ROCK PRIOR TO REACHING H0G-LINE" or somesuch

If the sensors are failing because WCF is dealing with an inferior supplier so be it. I can appreciate the argument for not placing hog-line officials at the hogs during the pandemic. Thats 8 more officials within the bubble (plus an alternate if one of the officials goes down w/ illness)

Nine (9) more folks inside the bubble is not a particularly helpful (or healthy) idea as these folks would be in similar airspace to most of the players on their sheet plus the adjacent sheet.

Case closed.
No sensors.
No by-law officers at the hogs.
Self-police.

Or bring in Jennifer Jones to reduce rule-breakers to tears!

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04-06-21 01:26PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bmalky
As for the Mixed Doubles and Muyres, he was well over the line (almost a half body length) when he released it.

We need to confirm this before proceeding further, I think.

Here's the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNX1Im9sk_I

Can you provide a timestamp that we can discuss? Maybe even a screenshot if necessary?

The smoking gun that we're looking for here, of course, is photographic evidence that Muyres was still holding on to the stone that has already crossed the hog line.

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04-06-21 02:02PM
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips

We need to confirm this before proceeding further, I think.

Here's the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNX1Im9sk_I

Can you provide a timestamp that we can discuss? Maybe even a screenshot if necessary?

The smoking gun that we're looking for here, of course, is photographic evidence that Muyres was still holding on to the stone that has already crossed the hog line.


Go to 30:39 of game.

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