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06-17-15 03:03PM |
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curlny
Hitting Paint
Registered: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 180 |
US Open golf
Links style course on Puget Sound SW of Tacoma, WA. Hate to bet favorites, but no reason Rory McElroy won't be right there on Sunday.
__________________
JL
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06-18-15 10:53AM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
I'm crazy enthused about this tournament....I like seeing the elite have to struggle with conditions that aren't manicured to create -26 weekends.
Par is supposed to mean "Perfectly played golf" over the course of the hole...looking forward to this immensely.
IF you're not at a TV, it's streaming online at usopen.com (.org is the tennis site...go figure...)
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06-18-15 11:25AM |
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biterbar
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 695 |
I agree Alan. I am figuring current leader Cody Gribble can go wire to wire on this.
If not Rory or Jordan followed by Dustin Johnson and Jim Furyk.
Holes 11,12 and 13, all par fours, are playing 500, 311 and 524 respectively today.
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06-18-15 08:04PM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
Watching the "Featured Pairing" coverage from Fox online...
Ricky Fowler, Louis Oosthozen and Tiger Woods...
Through 8, they're a combined +13...
They just took a combined 19 shots to clear the 8th hole.
And my schadenfreude is loving every second
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06-19-15 10:52PM |
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jhcurl
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: US - CT
Posts: 1431 |
Wow, JL should have picked Spieth again. Will be in the final group on Saturday. Hoping he can pull it off. Long way to go.
JH
no, did not bet on this
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06-20-15 09:45PM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
This is my hat,
This is my hat coming off towards Jason Day.
Nuff said.
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06-21-15 08:57PM |
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jhcurl
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: US - CT
Posts: 1431 |
These guys are really good, they should not be penalized for hitting the fairway. Day hits a nice drive into the left side of the fairway and it rolls 40 yards into the right rough. How does that highlight their skill?
A really stupid course, never should have been used. Pretty to look at but not a test of the best in the world. All luck, miss the landing spot by a yard and get penalized severely.
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06-21-15 10:27PM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
Disagree strenuously.
Every single "unlucky" shot could have been avoided, had the golfer taken a different line, used a different club, made a different decision.
"Hitting" the fairway isn't enough, you have to take into account the shape and slope of it, where the bunkers are, and all of the other factors. If your shot in the middle of the fairway 320 yards down hit a berm and shot to the left into the fescue...well...maybe you should have aimed for 300 or clubbed up and gone 330...you chose to hit it to the unpredictable part of the fairway, you get what you hit.
The course provided a pure and true test of the perseverance, shotmaking, putting, and yes, a little luck of the golfers involved. It gave shots, and it took them away. Hit your target with the correct shape of shot, and the course held your ball nicely. Miss or misshape and you were punished, just as you should be.
And say what you will about the greens...those shots at the end were not affected at all, the rolls were pure and true, the golfers hit the putts and got the results they deserved.
Great course, great tournament, great drama, and I can't wait for it to return to the course in 6-8 years.
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06-21-15 10:56PM |
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jhcurl
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: US - CT
Posts: 1431 |
Really, did you actually watch? Did you see Senedker's ball jump 3 inches into the air on a putt? Did you see Day hit a draw into the left to right sloping fairway and then watch the ball roll 40 YARDS to the right into the rough? Did you notice that they showed very, very few close-ups of putts since they were bouncing around so much?
You must have been watching something different than I was, it was stupid. When you have to hold players up on a 372 yard par 4 (Saturday) because the green is not clear, that is not a test of Championship golf. It is complete luck of where the ball lands. Miss by a yard and into the bunker, miss by two yards and over the back by 100 feet, hit a spot the size of a rock and get a good shot. Or miss by 50 feet and make an even better shot.
Related to curling, if I know that the people I am playing will miss the broom by 3 feet and make a wicky, wack, I leave nothing in play. I will peel my own guards if I have to just so that can't bounce off of something.
JH
As I have said many times, just my opinion
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06-22-15 07:56AM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
Every course ever created (except maybe your local businessman's par 3 lunchtime circuit) has it's idiosyncrasies.
Augusta's greens are different than anything else played on tour.
Pebble Beach has just as many weird angles as Chamber's Bay does...and it's had years when Poa infested the greens as well.
I recall watching a preview of a US Open in the mid 1980's for a US Open at a course in Michigan and seeing a horseshoe shaped putt on one of the greens at Oakland Hills just like the viral explosion which occurred just before this tournament teed off.
The best golfer will understand the course he is playing on and it's current conditions, and make the risk/reward decision for every shot. It's not just "Bomb it and deal with the results" like you see every week on the tour (or, for that matter, like you see on the final 9 at Augusta, where shots in the woods turn into birdies).
Just because you *can* hit it 350 yards down the fairway into that sharply angled minefield doesn't mean you *should*. You want to take the risk? You're welcome to do so, but when the roulette ball lands on 00, don't blame the house, you chose to spin the wheel.
Could the greens have been better? Probably (I'm not familiar enough with Turfgrass Science to know the peculiarities of dealing with Poa infestations to know if they could have done anything beyond what they did). Will they be better when the tournament returns in a decade (and it will)? Probably. Did it "ruin the tournament"? Unlikely, seeing as how the field's scores were pretty much right in line with previous years.
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06-22-15 09:02AM |
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340 |
Here, here. We'll put. Players and spectators whining about tough conditions make me hurl. No different than when curlers expect to be spoon fed with ice and rocks.
__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson
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06-22-15 10:09AM |
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nom de broom
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Posts: 84 |
The solution to bad surface conditions on the fairways and greens is obvious:
The USGA should schedule a Level 1 Groundskeeper certification course at a central location convenient to the golf courses on the East Coast, then cancel it a week beforehand and instead schedule a Level 1 program at the American Club in Kohler, because everyone knows that Wisconsin is where golf is growing like hotcakes.
__________________
[Original Ray's] nom de broom
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06-22-15 10:15AM |
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VAcurler
Hitting Paint
Registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Posts: 136 |
quote: Originally posted by nom de broom
The solution to bad surface conditions on the fairways and greens is obvious:
The USGA should schedule a Level 1 Groundskeeper certification course at a central location convenient to the golf courses on the East Coast, then cancel it a week beforehand and instead schedule a Level 1 program at the American Club in Kohler, because everyone knows that Wisconsin is where golf is growing like hotcakes.
Be sure to exclude all knowledge from the European and Canadian Groundskeeper certifications when they schedule the follow on Level 2 in three years.
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06-22-15 10:58AM |
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peglegg
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 101 |
JH is correct, I love the US Open by far the best test of golf but the USGA gets crazy a they let things get a bit out of hand. I was really excited to see this course but did not like it as much as I thought. There were plenty of good shots unfairly penalized. In the end though the best guy won.
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06-22-15 11:08AM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
Erm...I was born in the 70's, but thanks for the insult...
You miss my point here, as much as on the ice threads.
Anyone can perform on a manicured perfect surface, it's just a matter of practice to learn the necessary mechanics...at the level of a golfer being in the US Open (or, for that matter, a curler at the level of being at Worlds), those skills are a given, they've put in the time to get there already.
To be the *true test of a champion*, requires that the golfers/curlers be taken out of their comfort zone, where the mental game comes into play. Does the golfer's strategy only go as far as "Bomb it off the tee, hope it stays in the crazy generous fairway, hit a perfectly laid short iron into the green which nestles the ball to 5 inches from the cup and tap in for birdie", or are they capable of still playing well when the correct strategy involves more thought?
The *best* golfer or curler will still win in either case...it's just that "best" may not mean what you think it does. It's not the golfer with the longest drive, nor the curler with the hardest takeout weight, it's the golfer who can think their way through the challenges of the course and get around it in the fewest shots. Likewise, it's the curler who can strategize the conditions of the ice and the stones and their opponent.
It's harder...but it should be for the Elite. If they're the best they have, then they should be up for the challenge.
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06-22-15 11:47AM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
Golfers already have 2 majors where their ability to perform on manicured perfection is measured...the Masters and the PGA (most years...the PGA does throw a monkey wrench in there periodically...)
However, to crown the *National Champion*, the examination should be stricter and measure the complete toolbox, not just ability to perform well when there is no variance in the course.
Regardless, at this point we've long since left curling as a subject matter, the event is over, the course returning to the public for the next 8-10 years before the USGA comes back (and they will, guarantee it), and the Champion is crowned.
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06-22-15 05:50PM |
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TNH
Hitting Paint
Registered: May 2011
Location:
Posts: 161 |
Playing on crap greens is much less of an examination than playing on proper greens. Just look at the leaderboard filled with poor putters as measured by the PGA tour strokes gained putting: DJ 121st, Oostuizen 156, Adam Scott 189. Even Speith is only ranked 19th. What you saw was a lot of luck of the bounce, not great shortgames being rewarded. How many times did you see pros miss 4 foot putts by inches? The USGA took putting and to a certain extent chipping out of the test. Not good.
For curlers, it would be like playing a national championship on bad ice with flat spots and runs where you switch sheets every shot so you can never learn the ice. Draws, draw weight, and any kind of hit and roll would be pure guess work. A good team would win because only good teams are competing, but it would be a poor examination.
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06-23-15 01:47PM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
Yeah...the golfers that finished up on top of the leaderboard were garbage...
Speith - OGR #2
Oosthuizen #16
Johnson #3
Adam Scott #11
The Top 4 were all in the top 16 in the World...yeah, that's horrid...obviously the greens were making it so the #300 ranked players were just as competitive...
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