Registered: Sep 2011
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Pustovar comes *real* close to rolling out of the house on his hit and stick to take 2 and force the extra, but hangs on by about 2 inches...

We're going to 11 to determine who will face McCormick in the 3-4 game. Corbett has the hammer, and is in with a win. If Pustovar gets the steal, then we have a 4 way tie for 4th between Corbett, Gemmell, Dropkin, and Pustovar.

At least the Men's side provides some drama at the end of the RR.

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Registered: Sep 2011
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As it stands at this time, the only teams that can rep the US at Worlds for the Men are Shuster, Brown, or McCormick.

Dropkin, Corbett, Pustovar, and Gemmell are all too far behind to catch up the margin. Drama to see who gets into the playoffs...but it has no impact on potential World representation.

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Nice end to championship curling -- 4 teams still in the hunt with 4-5 records

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Corbett flashes a wide open hit and stick with the hammer in the 11th to give Pustovar the game and create a 4 way playoff for the 4th spot.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Cleveland, OH
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quote:

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Originally posted by AlanMacNeill
...Only Pustovar and Meyers are mathematically eliminated at this point...

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Registered: Sep 2011
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quote:

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Originally posted by dbsdbs
Nice end to championship curling -- 4 teams still in the hunt with 4-5 records

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Is it cast in stone that the points leader goes to worlds or are points just a data point that influences the committeee's decision? Is it conceivable that the USCA could still select an HPP team, Brown or McCormick, even if Shuster wins??

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According to the rules, the team "with the highest OOM points total at the conclusion of the 2015 USA Curling Men�s and Women�s
Nationals who have placed in the top 3 in their respective National Championship"

I would have to borrow JH's tinfoil hat to say they could pick their own team if Shuster wins.

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The rules are set in stone (presumably, barring weirdness like injury or drug test failure or unwillingness to sign the contract)

The team with the highest US-OOM score after Nationals will be our rep, assuming they finish in the top 3 at Nationals.

Since Shuster (#1 US-OOM going into nationals) and Brown (#3) have clinched a Top 3 at Nationals berth by virtue of being in the 1-2 game, and McCormick (#2) is also in the playoffs, someone from those three will finish in the Top 3 at Nationals, therefore whomever finishes on top of the points race between them will be the Rep, even if they end up 2-3-4.

My math says that it's very likely to be whomever of Shuster v McCormick finishes highest, but Brown can sneak in there if McCormick ends up 4th, Shuster 3rd and Brown wins. That calculation may not be correct though.

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How are points earned at USA Nationals? Do Shuster, Brown, McC points to date mean that whichever of these 3 teams wins this competition will go to Worlds?
Above assumes that the survivor of the 4-5 teams will not win out. If they would do that, would the nationals runnerup be the USA rep to Worlds?
It was a lot simpler when the team that won the championship won the trip to Worlds.

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(edited, the link now works: http://www.teamusa.org/~/media/USA_...rocess%20vf.pdf )

Because the US only had 2 curler in the top 25 and 4 in the top 50, the points are:

Champion: 45
Runner-Up: 35
3rd: 30
4th: 20
5th-10th: 2 points per win.

No, the winner is not guaranteed to go, IF that winner is Brown. If McCormick or Shuster win, they will go for sure. Brown pretty much needs whomever comes out of the tiebreaker round to end up coming in 2nd to have a chance (and he might not make it even then).

Last edited by AlanMacNeill on 02-19-15 at 01:04PM

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thanks guys, wasn't sure.

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Points for US Nationals are NOT awarded like every other bonspiel. There's no high level math for US Nationals except for figuring out whether points are doubled. Since the doubling criteria wasn't met 1st = 45 pts, 2nd = 35 pts, 3rd = 30 pts, 4th = 20 pts and 2 pts per round robin win for teams not making the Page Playoffs.

Current standings, not counting this event, are at http://www.teamusa.org/~/media/USA_...tion%202015.pdf

Criteria for Worlds is in the rules http://www.teamusa.org/~/media/USA_...AL%20111714.pdf

Shuster wins OR finishes 2nd to Brown and they go to Worlds.

Brown wins over McCormick or 4th place team and Brown goes to Worlds. Brown over Shuster means Shuster would have 75.436 points and Brown 75.22.

McCormick wins and they go to Worlds.

4th place team, whomever that ends up being, has no chance.

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My unofficial calculation says
Shuster goes if he plays Brown in the final or if he wins against McCormick.

McCormick goes if he wins or finishes second to Brown.

I don't think Brown can go because Shuster is in the 1-2 game so he finishes 3rd at worst.

I could be completely wrong, would not be the first time.

JH

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For those who don't want to open the USCA PDF, the current standings of those still playing:

Shuster 40.436
McCormick 38.601
Brown 30.22
Dropkin 12.005
Corbett 7.75
Gemmell 3.575
Pustovar 2.6

Without a Bronze/3rd place game Shuster is guaranteed 30 points from Nationals and 70.436 total points. That's more than any of the fourth place teams can have if they win and get 45 points. Heck, that's more than all four possible 4th place teams combined.

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Registered: Feb 2015
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quote:

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Originally posted by jhcurl
My unofficial calculation says


I don't think Brown can go because Shuster is in the 1-2 game so he finishes 3rd at worst.

I could be completely wrong, would not be the first time.

JH

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quote:

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Originally posted by dbsdbs
Nice end to championship curling -- 4 teams still in the hunt with 4-5 records

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quote:

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Originally posted by SmokeyJoe
Meaningful games right to the end of round robin. Even Clark and Haluptzok had a chance to join the party.

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Registered: Dec 2005
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I concur and don't want to be forced into defending a system I routinely argue against, BUT:

Those were meaningful games for those players. They are still playing for a National title...no small thing and a dream they had on the way to Kzoo. They are playing for the chance to be included in the HPP, although I'm not certain if that is a dream or a nightmare.

Let's not forget to flip the coin over and look at the other side:

HPP curlers who do not advance to Worlds are in serious jeopardy of losing their spots in the HPP program. Think about it: Spots and money MUST be set aside for our National champions next year. Heater, Nina, Craig and their teammates are all in jeopardy of not being asked back. All the games are meaningful to them as well.

Ben Tucker

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quote:

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Originally posted by tuck
I concur and don't want to be forced into defending a system I routinely argue against, BUT:

Those were meaningful games for those players. They are still playing for a National title...no small thing and a dream they had on the way to Kzoo. They are playing for the chance to be included in the HPP, although I'm not certain if that is a dream or a nightmare.

Let's not forget to flip the coin over and look at the other side:

HPP curlers who do not advance to Worlds are in serious jeopardy of losing their spots in the HPP program. Think about it: Spots and money MUST be set aside for our National champions next year. Heater, Nina, Craig and their teammates are all in jeopardy of not being asked back. All the games are meaningful to them as well.

Ben Tucker

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quote:

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Originally posted by tuck

Those were meaningful games for those players. They are still playing for a National title...no small thing and a dream they had on the way to Kzoo.

Ben Tucker

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We're pretty much in agreement, dbsdbs. I'm just looking for the rainbow in the storm clouds. Yes, I would strongly prefer to send our National champions. I would strongly, strongly, strongly prefer it in years where the WCT isn't counting Olympic Qualifying Points.

JH has a point in that National gold doesn't guarantee you access to the HPP nor even an invite to the combine. Still, I maintain that it is the best path for those who aspire to be on a HPP team...perhaps the only path.

JH, are you available to talk about it the week of March 14th? I'll be out east and you owe me drinks...lots of drinks. By the way, I mispronounce it Plainsfield.

Back to the thread: Did I say Shuster over Brown in the Finals? Genius. OK, maybe not genius...but I'm proud of my picks.

Late odds:
Shuster 1 to 1
Brownie 3 to 2
Heater 2 to 1
Corbett 6 to 1

Late prop bets:
Face cusses on an open mic 5 to 1
Plys cusses on an open mic 1 to 1
Erika/Craig Double Gold odds down to 3 to 1
Corbett replicates his Pot Spinner hammer vs Dropkin The Younger 999 to 1

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Registered: Nov 2012
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quote:

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Originally posted by tuck


JH, are you available to talk about it the week of March 14th? I'll be out east and you owe me drinks...lots of drinks. By the way, I mispronounce it Plainsfield.

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so help me out here. if heath mccormick were to beat john shuster in the final then who goes to worlds

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Shuster over anyone = Shuster
McCormick over anyone = McCormick
Brown over Shuster = Shuster
Brown over McCormick or Corbett = Brown
Corbett over Brown = Shuster
Corbett over McCormick = McCormick (except it can't actually happen)
Corbett over Shuster = Shuster

Those are all of the scenarios, as I understand them

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