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09-14-16 04:29PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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The Game is The Game again.

Here's a definitive article which should put an end to the banter of all those who blindly, or otherwise, defended the use of specific brush heads.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ology-of-brooms

Amen!

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09-15-16 02:42AM
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Another article painting the elite level curlers as saints who care only about the integrity of the game... Give me a bloody break!
These are the very same elite curlers who were responsible for the broom/sweeping mess... THEY are the ones who tried desperately to ruin curling last season... THEY are the ones who developed and insisted on using the ‘directional sweeping’ techniques which maximized the radical effects of these brush heads. They knew very well what they were doing, and what effect it had - both on the ice and for the integrity and reputation of the game. And they persisted anyway. No-one ever put a gun to their heads or forced them to use those sweeping methods or those brush heads - they all chose to do so voluntarily - and they did so for the entire season, always searching for any sweeping advantage they could get... While, laughingly, at the same time complaining about how terrible it all was for the game! The hypocrisy is as blatant as is the self-serving nature of their actions...

The fact is that the elite level curlers demonstrated that they care far more about their own win/loss record than they care about “the integrity of the game”. They were all out to gain the greatest advantage they could possibly get - the integrity of the game be damned. Even now with the new fabric and new rules, there is concern about whether the elite teams will try to get around the rules and gain as much of an advantage on other teams as they can.
Integrity? Ha!

The days when elite level curlers relied solely on ability - perhaps combined with fitness - to create the gaps between teams are gone. Last season proved beyond any doubt that the elite teams are looking for equipment (and how the equipment is used) to be the deciding factor, not curling skill - using the dangerous philosophy of the ends justifying the means. And once that bridge is crossed - as it was last season -, there’s no going back. Last season revealed very clearly that, for the elite level teams, the ONLY thing that mattered was winning - and they showed that they were willing to do whatever they could do to win - even sacrifice their own integrity, and the integrity of the game.

Face it, folks - the integrity of curling at the elite level is gone forever. You can thank the increased prize money, TV, and sponsorship money for this. It was just a matter of time before curling joined the other professional level sports on the dark side. We saw last season that this has now happened.
So it’s up to the rest of us to maintain the integrity of curling; to keep it a gentleman’s game. I hope to hell we do a much better job of it than the elite players have.

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09-15-16 09:34AM
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"About a year ago, new brooms began appearing at her Ottawa club. Brooms that guided curling rocks like never before. Impossible shots now seemed make-able, even for a beer-league hacker, while elite curlers could throw stones and never miss. A curling revolution was underway, and no one was happy about it. Suddenly, a famously friendly sport, full of jovial beer-drinking souls, was beset by on-ice feuds, fights and accusations of cheating.

“Curling got ugly,” says Albertan Marc Kennedy, a gold medalist at the 2010 Olympics. “We had fisticuffs. We had fights. We needed to do something.” - From the article

So the new rules leave the "beer-league hacker" to continue to buy the brooms with the course fabric and plastic inserts, snowplow and corner sweep to joystick the stone all they want. I guess the "fisticuffs" will be left to the minor leagues this season.

Don't say it won't happen, (directional sweeping, no fisticuffs, yet)it already is in the good old USA and it's only September.

"The game is the game again" only applies to the elites.

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09-16-16 11:16AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose
Another article painting the elite level curlers as saints who care only about the integrity of the game... Give me a bloody break!

--- bah bah bah --

I hope to hell we do a much better job of it than the elite players have.



Wow! Bitter. Uninformed.

As I see/heard it directly and indirectly, there was a significant number of elite curlers who were genuinely concerned about the 'new' direction of the game. The problem was that the governing bodies could/would not act/react in a knee-jerk fashion. Subsequently, the 'gentlemen's agreement' arrived at regarding brush heads was not universally adopted. And then there were horsehair heads -- who knew it!

So in the end, as CTRS points were at stake, what the year came down to was to follow the 'rules' per tournament whatever the 'rules' were. That is, while not the ideal playing field, at least it was 'level'.

Now, with the Summit in our rearview mirror, The Game is back .. and hopefully, there'll be no law suits from any disgruntled equipment manufacturers.

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09-16-16 11:30AM
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Re: The Game is The Game again.

quote:
Originally posted by OverAndOut
Here's a definitive article which should put an end to the banter of all those who blindly, or otherwise, defended the use of specific brush heads.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ology-of-brooms

Amen!



Seriously?

The article mentions “about a year ago, new brooms began appearing at her Ottawa club”. What broom appeared about a year ago? If you are referring to the
He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named because it is so evil and from the dark side (or also referred to as Hardline), it had been around for 3-4 years with the same so-said directional fabric. What? It became directional all of a sudden a year ago?

Unless you did not realize it, every broom is now out of bounds. The Hardline insert and pro cover, the EQ and the foil, the Norway and the ridges, the TX. All are out. All the finger pointing people did towards other curlers last year, well apparently those same finger pointers had illegal brooms too. And again, all of these brooms have been around for several years. How many decades has hair been around? Besides the Black Magic, nothing else was new and I do not think anybody here is defending the Black Magic brooms. The new sweeping technique is the main problem, not the brooms! When people swept it the way it should be swept, you did not see any of this, no matter if you had a foil, or an insert or ridges, or coated fabric or even hair.

Every single curler who bought a new broom in the last 5 years was apparently cheating all this time. Every single person that has been using hair for the last 20 years has also been cheating.

I am just a recreational curler. I go and have fun with my friends playing a game I enjoy. I like to have a couple of beers and chit chat afterwards. The rules are set, the season is starting, seems like everybody is happy so let’s all stop with this nonsense and move on and enjoy the game we love.”

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09-16-16 11:09PM
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On The Nose
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quote:
Originally posted by OverAndOut


Wow! Bitter. Uninformed.

As I see/heard it directly and indirectly, there was a significant number of elite curlers who were genuinely concerned about the 'new' direction of the game. The problem was that the governing bodies could/would not act/react in a knee-jerk fashion. Subsequently, the 'gentlemen's agreement' arrived at regarding brush heads was not universally adopted. And then there were horsehair heads -- who knew it!

So in the end, as CTRS points were at stake, what the year came down to was to follow the 'rules' per tournament whatever the 'rules' were. That is, while not the ideal playing field, at least it was 'level'.

Now, with the Summit in our rearview mirror, The Game is back .. and hopefully, there'll be no law suits from any disgruntled equipment manufacturers.


If anyone is misinformed, it's you, as you blindly buy in to the pretty PR BS that the elite curlers "care so much about the integrity of the game"...
Sigh...

Actions speak so much louder than pretty words - and last season's actions by the elite curlers clearly demonstrated that the ONLY thing they care about is winning, as they all used every sweeping advantage possible - and constantly searched for more and more sweeping advantages... while at the same time telling any fool who'd listen that what they themselves were doing - entirely voluntarily - was terrible for the integrity of the game.
Utter hypocrisy doesn't come any more clear than that.

__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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09-16-16 11:29PM
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Gerry
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quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose

If anyone is misinformed, it's you, as you blindly buy in to the pretty PR BS that the elite curlers "care so much about the integrity of the game"...
Sigh...

Actions speak so much louder than pretty words - and last season's actions by the elite curlers clearly demonstrated that the ONLY thing they care about is winning, as they all used every sweeping advantage possible - and constantly searched for more and more sweeping advantages... while at the same time telling any fool who'd listen that what they themselves were doing - entirely voluntarily - was terrible for the integrity of the game.
Utter hypocrisy doesn't come any more clear than that.



Some teams certainly did push the envelope, but I ask what you would do when the team you're playing against uses these techniques against you? Would you just watch them beat you without trying to keep up with them?

There was a lot of work by the elite teams trying to equalize the technology and behind the scenes testing to try and figure out solutions. Many teams worked together while some continued to push the envelope on what these brushes could do. It even happened early this season in China when one of the teams tried to use last year's technology under the guise that no rules had been officially put into place.

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09-16-16 11:47PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


Some teams certainly did push the envelope, but I ask what you would do when the team you're playing against uses these techniques against you? Would you just watch them beat you without trying to keep up with them?


Well, I would not do one thing while saying another.
Last season was completely ridiculous, as the elite teams were using every sweeping advantage possible, and always looking for greater sweeping advantages... while saying that what they themselves were doing was terrible for the game.
Well, hell - if you HONESTLY BELIEVE it's bad for the game, and if you HONESTLY CARE ABOUT the integrity of the game, then you won't do things which damage the game. Even if it means losing some games. That is REAL integrity.
It was like all season, the elite players were saying "Someone stop us, please! We can't stop ourselves! We can't do the right thing... We're completely out of control!" It was total hypocrisy, and was embarrassingly ridiculous.
Never mind the pretty words they said, because words are meaningless. What actually happened was a perfect demonstration of a LACK of integrity.

The entire broom/sweeping problems of last season were the direct result of what the elite teams freely and voluntarily CHOSE to do. No-one forced them to use 'directional sweeping'; no-one forced them to use the brush heads they used... it was all done by free choice, with the goal being to gain any and every advantage possible. You can't do that and then speak of integrity! No way!

You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
You can't claim to possess integrity in pretty words, and then show no integrity in your actions. Anyone who does that should obviously be assessed more on their actions than on their pretty words.

__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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09-17-16 07:02AM
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On a less bitter note...

Watched the Shorty yesterday. When players hit the broom they tended to make shots and when they missed the broom they tended to not. Good sweepers could drag a rock but nobody could make it dance. Thank gawd!!

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09-17-16 11:27AM
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I will admit I have not read all the information put out there by the curling bodies.

But as I understand it the only change from last year is which broom heads are and are not allowed. Does that mean the one person sweeping thing will still be used, sweeping on opposite sides and crossing over the rock.I thought that had just as much effect on the steering as the broom heads, otherwise why did they not use both sweepers all the time.

Another thing which bothers me is that the clubs have been left saddled with the illegal brooms, why was this not included in the moratorium.

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09-17-16 11:50AM
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the brooms are perfectly legal at the club level.

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09-17-16 12:31PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
the brooms are perfectly legal at the club level.


What is the reasoning behind that.

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09-17-16 01:42PM
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The new broom head rules.apply to events run by the WCF,curling Canada and maybe your provincial associations. Club play is not.regulated by those associations.

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09-17-16 02:20PM
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There's a couple reasons why the rules weren't pushed down to the club level. First of all, had they gone that way, it would have required every club player to buy new equipment for a problem the wasn't as much of a club issue.

To get the true effect, you'd have to use brand new pad for every game and while it's possible someone could do that, it definitely doesn't make a lot of sense.

The idea of not forcing it upon club curlers was to balance the need to control the sweeping and the requirement of forcing everyone to buy all new pads.

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09-17-16 03:13PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
The new broom head rules.apply to events run by the WCF,curling Canada and maybe your provincial associations. Club play is not.regulated by those associations.


I thought clubs played by CCA/OCA rules.

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09-17-16 03:35PM
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Your club may use the general rules of curling as a guideline.not the rules for officiated play.

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09-17-16 05:56PM
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I can only imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth on these fora if the rules had been "rammed down the throat of the club curler who now has to go out and buy money on new equipment when clubs are losing members why do clubs pay dues to these governing bodies" and on and on and on*.

*And on.

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09-18-16 03:51PM
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So what I am hearing is that club curlers use the same broom head forever.

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09-18-16 06:08PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Netz
So what I am hearing is that club curlers use the same broom head forever.


If that's what you're hearing then you're a terrible listener.

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09-18-16 11:11PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lotus


If that's what you're hearing then you're a terrible listener.



I believe he was using sarcasm to point out that curlers purchase new heads every year and it would be just as easy for curlers to buy approved heads as illegal heads going forward. Eventually all of the carving heads would be out of circulation and everyone would be on the same playing field.

If the broom companies would stop manufacturing the non-conforming heads it would happen even sooner.

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09-23-16 08:40AM
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There is going to be a problem and bad feelings at the club and lesser OCA event play. While the WCF may not feel that the sweeping at that level matters and the CCA is agreeing, there are plenty of competitive curlers who will continue with the old heads and directional sweeping as long as it is "legal". We've already seen it in summer leagues and seen accusations of cheating.
The idea of allowing old pads is that people will use them up and then buy the new but I can see players continuing to buy up the old stock this year in order to have fresh pads for the competitions that allow them (eg. Senior Mixed, Intermediates, etc.)
The sooner the full transition the better. I think this will be a bad year at the club level.

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09-24-16 12:26AM
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I sure could be wrong, but I bet that so-called 'lesser' OCA events will enforce the same new broom rules as are instituted for the major events.

The cutoff point likely will come for club play that does not lead to further out-of-club competition. Even then, I would hope that club-level players would decide to comply with the spirit of the ruling. Use any broom that you want, but don't try to carve rocks with it.

Personally, I would feel sorry for anyone who feels compelled to use 'directional' tactics to win a weeknight club league game.

Wouldn't such a win feel like a hollow victory?

Jim Corrigan

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09-24-16 04:21AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bugman

Personally, I would feel sorry for anyone who feels compelled to use 'directional' tactics to win a weeknight club league game.

Wouldn't such a win feel like a hollow victory?


One would hope so... but things are changing, and not for the better.

Last season, the elite players showed everyone that they subscribe to the approach of the ends justifying the means. They showed that winning was the ONLY thing that mattered to them, and that they would do anything to win - even completely contradict their pretty claims that they care about the integrity of the game (they were using every sweeping advantage possible, always looking for a greater advantage, carving and scratching the ice with their aggressive brush pads all season, and did this by free voluntary choice, while at the same time ridiculously claiming that they felt it was all "terrible for the game").

The elite players being at the top of the curling hierarchy, they have a rather strong influence on what happens below that level. People emulate their 'idols'. I fear that the 'win at any cost', 'ends justify the means' approach the elite players displayed last season is finding its way into the lower competitive levels and into club level curling, as well...

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Last edited by On The Nose on 09-24-16 at 04:26AM

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09-24-16 07:47AM
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Or is it the "evolution" of sweeping?

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09-24-16 03:58PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bugman
..I would hope that club-level players would decide to comply with the spirit of the ruling. Use any broom that you want, but don't try to carve rocks with it.

Personally, I would feel sorry for anyone who feels compelled to use 'directional' tactics to win a weeknight club league game.

Wouldn't such a win feel like a hollow victory?

Jim Corrigan



Jim; have you read the new sweeping rules as they pertain to the motion, direction and length of stroke?

Effectively, there are no rules. Call it whatever you wish: Snowplowing, Directional, Cornering, Carving, High-side, Low-side, etc, etc, ad nauseum. It doesn't matter.

It's all legal.

This is why, IMO, all the ridiculous ideas floated to justify not enforcing the wonder fabric beyond competitive play are a joke. There are thousands of recreational players across the country who can learn, by themselves, this technique and start applying it-effectively-immediately.

And having used the wonder fabric I can say honestly that there is still an impact on the movement of the stone. And this is because we can still use the technique with impunity.

Yes, there is likely a reduction in the amount of the effect due to the material. But it is not gone entirely. Anyone telling you otherwise is lying. If anything this increases the importance of adopting the one-sweeper philosophy.

Why? because the whole theory is predicated on the notion that two sweepers, on opposite sides, sweeping together are at cross purposes. The lead sweeper, furthest from the stone and sweeping in the direction of the curl leaves microscratches which increase the movement. The sweeper nearest the stone sweeps against the curl, reducing it. essentially, the sweeper nearest the stone has to erase the microscratches of the other in order to impact the curl. So, why have both sweeping and working against the need of the shot?

Therefore, with a fabric that reduces microscratches it now becomes even more important to have just ONE sweeper.

I've stated before and will continue to do so; this is a two-fold issue: technique and technology. You cannot resolve the issue to any real degree unless you address both.

__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson

Last edited by jamcan on 09-24-16 at 04:06PM

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