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| 09-22-16 11:06PM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
Nose,
I refrained from further comments because I know it is a pointless act. It is not for lack of content or ability to respond to your so-called points. It is because nothing said here will ever shut you up, and nothing said here will ever be actually thought over or considered by you. Why should I engage in a conversation with someone not actually listening? Yes, you read over the post so you can find quotes and respond back, but you have shown you do not actually acknowledge the information of others as possibly having any validity. It is like listening to a politician throw mud onto others so the mud on themselves seems normal and less dirty. If you can respectfully answer why I should provide anymore content to you, and converse over the information civilly, I will gladly do so.
That's a lovely justification for bailing out of a discussion because you've run out of ammunition...
Clearly, your idea of 'respect' is to not disagree with your perspective or opinion. And to praise your perspective and validate it. And to allow you to 'shut me up'. If I do all of these things, I am then, to you, 'respectful'. Sigh...
I dared disagree - point for point, making the effort to respond to you directly, and you somehow twisted this into me showing no respect - because I didn't agree with you or deem any of your points as 'valid'. I don't think your points are valid, so I'm not going to pretend that I think they are. I disagree with you completely. Somehow, in your world, disagreeing with you and not validating your points means disrespect.
And, apparently, your idea of respect is to refer to what the other party is expressing as "Blah, Blah", to claim that the other party is "acting like a jerk", and to want to 'shut up' the other party.
The definition of respect, then, is obviously another point upon which we very much disagree.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited by On The Nose on 09-22-16 at 11:49PM
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| 09-22-16 11:34PM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by biterbar
I belong to a "Haughty and snobbish club"? LOL, I spit my coffee half the way across the kitchen on that one!
Top 5 Reasons my club is "Haughty and Snobbish:
1) The farmers wear different shoes to the club so we don't get cows**t on the carpet.
2) We drink our Pabst Blue Ribbon from the can.
3) We drink our wine straight from the box.
4) The most popular dish at our potlucks is French cut green beans with a can of onion soup mixed in and canned dried onions spread on top.
5) The number one brand curling pants is Levi's closely followed by Puma sweats.
Then it makes little sense that you would banish someone for a benign act like banging/breaking a broom.
Personally, I have much less problem with someone banging/breaking their broom as a direct result of frustration during a game than I have with people swearing like a sailor gratuitously at the table after the game. The former is an intense reaction to immediate circumstance. The latter is more frequent, is simply gratuitous, and thus displays far more disrespect to others.
There is no question that this is an issue of trying to control people and force them to conform to a certain, largely arbitrary, standard of 'conduct'. I don't feel that such controlling behaviour is healthy for anyone. I feel that it's more damaging and disrespectful than is the behaviour it seeks to control.
For those of you who wish to control the broom bangers - following the very same controlling approach, you should also tell people what to wear when you dont like the way that they dress. And seek to not allow those who disagree with you to speak or to express themselves. Because that's really what it's about at its core - its all about controlling people and trying to make them conform to what you think is right - controlling/stifling those who behave in a way that is different than you - if you find their behaviour to be not 'right', you apparently feel you have the right to control and/or stifle them. And so you should use the same approach with people who have opinions with which you disagree, or clothes that you don't like - that would be simply to apply the very same (flawed) controlling principle.
From a practical perspective, it is also important for clubs to evolve beyond the place where people's behaviour is tightly controlled to conform to the 'political correctness' which has invaded this culture... If a club wishes to attract younger players, and decrease the average age of members from the current 72 years old or so (which every club wants), clubs will need to evolve in this way. This is no disrespect at all to the older members/players - the majority of whom have put in a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to keep their clubs alive, and that's wonderful. But I think we all agree that more young blood is needed - and fast - to keep clubs alive. And in order to make curling attractive to younger players, it needs to evolve beyond things like controlling people's behaviour too tightly.
This does not mean, as the paranoid control-freaks claim to fear, a free-for-all where people are out of control. It means simply using common sense and relaxing the control over people's intensity and frustration on the ice, instead allowing for individual expression, and realizing that unless a person is threatening to bang/break YOUR broom, what he/she does should not affect you at all.
For Jim Corrigan... Nice story. My problem is with people trying to control others to too large a degree. For me, it has absolutely nothing to do with being 'macho', or being a 'real man'. I have no problem with women banging/breaking brooms, either. Not as a daily occurrence (for either gender), but periodically when the frustration mounts. I think it's good to not try to control or stifle passion and intensity, whether the passion and intensity is expressed quietly or openly. If someone wants to laugh when they miss an important shot, it would be disrespectful of me to insist that they show more intensity and not laugh because that's how I prefer they behave. Conversely, if someone wants to bang his/her broom after missing an important shot, it shows the same lack of respect to tell that person that he/she needs to show less intensity and behave more in a way that you like.
The more control there is, inherently the less freedom there is.
I prefer freedom to control.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited by On The Nose on 09-23-16 at 03:18AM
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| 09-23-16 11:02AM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
That is the biggest pile of crap I have read. Hopefully Nose will post evidence of his degree in Psychology to back up his babbling. A sport having rules that you have to follow is not political correctness, it is what defines it as the sport it is. Society has rules that govern peoples actions, laws you might call them, and they are in place to make sure society functions in a somewhat civilized manner. Clubs, such as curling clubs, have rules that members must abide by to remain as members in good standing. You seem to be fixated that it is your right to do whatever you wish to do whenever you want. When you are a part of something, such as a club, a competition or even a society you are required to follow the rules set before you if you desire to remain part of it. If not, you are free to leave at any time, simple as that. Clubs don't need the lowest common denominator, such as an uneducated quasi-pschologist ( one that is in need of anger management training) to tell them how they should run things.
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| 09-23-16 11:45AM |
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youngen
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 99 |
quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose
That's a lovely justification for bailing out of a discussion because you've run out of ammunition...
Clearly, your idea of 'respect' is to not disagree with your perspective or opinion. And to praise your perspective and validate it. And to allow you to 'shut me up'. If I do all of these things, I am then, to you, 'respectful'. Sigh...
I dared disagree - point for point, making the effort to respond to you directly, and you somehow twisted this into me showing no respect - because I didn't agree with you or deem any of your points as 'valid'. I don't think your points are valid, so I'm not going to pretend that I think they are. I disagree with you completely. Somehow, in your world, disagreeing with you and not validating your points means disrespect.
And, apparently, your idea of respect is to refer to what the other party is expressing as "Blah, Blah", to claim that the other party is "acting like a jerk", and to want to 'shut up' the other party.
The definition of respect, then, is obviously another point upon which we very much disagree.
Nose,
I too, am not about controlling people and support freedom and individual rights. It just felt to me, that you judged me before completely digesting what I wrote originally. That annoyed me enough that I had to take a break from the thread so as not to write something jerk-ish back. And, I apologize for the comment about shutting you up. I guess you got to me. I can respect your opinions and belief in bucking conformity. I did not reply to your points because I needed to make sure whatever I wrote was more organized, so I could do a better job explaining what I wanted to originally get across. I did not bow out just because you disagreed with me. I have no problem with that, as its the entire point of having a forum.
The main point of my first post in this thread was not to directly correlate people showing anger to disrespecting the history of the game. It was to explain that if someone was to do the research about the history of the game, they could respectfully understand why some people like having a rule in place to dissuade anger outbursts. It does directly tie back to the roots of the game and the values of people back then. I feel everyone can have their own opinion on that, as obviously it has been voiced in this thread as such. And, I could see how some would believe such a viewpoint is outdated relating to a timeframe of a couple centuries ago. Personally, I struggle with updating something just on the basis that societys feelings towards something have changed slightly. Rules are based on the feelings of a majority. Sometimes they dont seem fair, but thats life. And in life, there is not just one way from point A to B. Example: Even if someone is ill-equipped to process their emotions without an anger outburst, it still only takes a half second of thinking and control to slam your broom pad-side down, so it stays intact. You can act out if you truly feel the need to, and never need to worry about the rule as you wont break your brush. I have even gone as far to mention to juniors that even though there are better things than slamming your broom, if you are going to do it anyways just do it pad down and dont damage anything.
The reason I feel like I can provide reasonably valid content to the topic is first-hand experience of how much more I enjoy non-contact sports since I made a conscious effort to dispel my own anger outbursts. This mainly related to my competitive days in golf, but I can see the relation to curling fitting as well. I am well read on the topic, and made statements from what Ive learned (not off a shrinks waiting room pamphlet like you believed). As I stated originally, I am not against others showing emotion how they see fit. It is through my experiences and findings that if a person practices simple anger control techniques, it is just as easy or more so to brush it off and refocus without the outburst as it is with it. And that is coming from someone who was taught to intentionally get angry and thrive on the adrenaline rush from it in order to be a better football player. My reference to being an adult is to get passed feeling like that is not meant to be anything more than a reference to the fact that it is an adult concept to learn your shortcomings and better yourself. If you feel that limiting your anger outbursts is not for your betterment, then by all means have at it. Unfortunately, most people get very uncomfortable around people like that, as they may feel unsafe or just empathetic and/or awkward towards seeing someone need to act that way. And, making people feel uncomfortable is not a way to keep them around the club, so that is where I believe everyone could do right to limit anger and help keep clubs and members coming back happy to play with or against you.
I do not want to control others emotions, despite what you seem to believe from your replies. I simply was trying to make a case how I can see the reasoning behind a rule with good intentions of promoting everyone to enjoy the game together in the same spirit as it was many years ago. Youre allowed to think Im wrong and Im not offended if you do. But, Id appreciate it if you didnt try to word your replies to make me look like Im just some ill-advised idiot not allowed an opinion after I offered up one on a public domain medium. Im sorry if I did not initially show you the same respect that I asked of you.
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| 09-23-16 11:16PM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
That is the biggest pile of crap I have read. Hopefully Nose will post evidence of his degree in Psychology to back up his babbling. A sport having rules that you have to follow is not political correctness, it is what defines it as the sport it is. Society has rules that govern peoples actions, laws you might call them, and they are in place to make sure society functions in a somewhat civilized manner. Clubs, such as curling clubs, have rules that members must abide by to remain as members in good standing. You seem to be fixated that it is your right to do whatever you wish to do whenever you want. When you are a part of something, such as a club, a competition or even a society you are required to follow the rules set before you if you desire to remain part of it. If not, you are free to leave at any time, simple as that. Clubs don't need the lowest common denominator, such as an uneducated quasi-pschologist ( one that is in need of anger management training) to tell them how they should run things.
And if people followed your 'philosophy', no progress would have ever been made in any element of life. Progress - including social progress - relies upon people challenging and questioning rules, laws, etc. Blind obedience is not conducive to progress or evolution.
"The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow." - Jim Hightower
As for the rest of your posts... it is just pointless juvenile babble, unworthy of being addressed beyond this brief sentence.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited by On The Nose on 09-24-16 at 12:42AM
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| 09-24-16 12:37AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
Nose,
I too, am not about controlling people and support freedom and individual rights. It just felt to me, that you judged me before completely digesting what I wrote originally. That annoyed me enough that I had to take a break from the thread so as not to write something jerk-ish back. And, I apologize for the comment about shutting you up. I guess you got to me. I can respect your opinions and belief in bucking conformity. I did not reply to your points because I needed to make sure whatever I wrote was more organized, so I could do a better job explaining what I wanted to originally get across. I did not bow out just because you disagreed with me. I have no problem with that, as its the entire point of having a forum.
So far, so good... I have no problem with anything you've written above.
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
The main point of my first post in this thread was not to directly correlate people showing anger to disrespecting the history of the game. It was to explain that if someone was to do the research about the history of the game, they could respectfully understand why some people like having a rule in place to dissuade anger outbursts. It does directly tie back to the roots of the game and the values of people back then. I feel everyone can have their own opinion on that, as obviously it has been voiced in this thread as such. And, I could see how some would believe such a viewpoint is outdated relating to a timeframe of a couple centuries ago.
And, as Mr. Corrigan reminded us, players smoked on the ice during games 'back then', as well. And so there are obviously elements from which it is good and healthy to evolve.
The game was much more informal in the past. Somewhere along the way, it became significantly more formal. While some of these changes were welcome, others, I feel, were not healthy - such as trying to control people's behaviour so as to conform with some arbitrary view of what is 'proper behaviour'. I believe, with exception to extreme and radical behaviour, that there is no such thing as 'proper behaviour'. It is, at best, a constantly moving target - and should therefore not be a target, or goal.
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
Personally, I struggle with updating something just on the basis that societys feelings towards something have changed slightly. Rules are based on the feelings of a majority.
And the majority are very often wrong. This has been proven several million times throughout history.
Further, rules and laws are often NOT based on the feelings of the majority, but rather on the benefits they can bring to a few select, corrupt people in influential positions (though that is likely not usually the case insofar as rules about banging/breaking brooms is concerned).
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
Sometimes they dont seem fair, but thats life. And in life, there is not just one way from point A to B. Example: Even if someone is ill-equipped to process their emotions without an anger outburst, it still only takes a half second of thinking and control to slam your broom pad-side down, so it stays intact. You can act out if you truly feel the need to, and never need to worry about the rule as you wont break your brush. I have even gone as far to mention to juniors that even though there are better things than slamming your broom, if you are going to do it anyways just do it pad down and dont damage anything.
I have no problem at all with this, and feel it was good of you to mention what you did to the juniors.
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
The reason I feel like I can provide reasonably valid content to the topic is first-hand experience of how much more I enjoy non-contact sports since I made a conscious effort to dispel my own anger outbursts. This mainly related to my competitive days in golf, but I can see the relation to curling fitting as well. I am well read on the topic, and made statements from what Ive learned (not off a shrinks waiting room pamphlet like you believed).
If that has worked well for you, that's perfectly fine. I would never tell you (or anyone else) that you should express more intensity or frustration - because that would be me trying to control your behaviour, and that is neither respectful nor healthy. As such, it is not any more respectful or healthy to try to control a person's behaviour by telling them that they need to express LESS intensity or frustration.
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
As I stated originally, I am not against others showing emotion how they see fit. It is through my experiences and findings that if a person practices simple anger control techniques, it is just as easy or more so to brush it off and refocus without the outburst as it is with it.
This is where you lose me...
Why should a person "practice anger control" if it is his/her nature to become angry at him/her self when playing poorly, for example? Just because that is what some others are demanding of him/her? No - I do not feel that this is reason to change one's natural behaviour if it does no harm to others, and if the person expressing the anger/frustration is not unhappy with being that way - or if the person feels that expressing the anger/frustration helps him/her. Who are others to tell a person how they should behave? One cannot possibly do this without being inherently controlling - and being controlling is neither respectful nor healthy.
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
And that is coming from someone who was taught to intentionally get angry and thrive on the adrenaline rush from it in order to be a better football player.
I believe it is wrong to teach someone to be angry like that. And I believe it is wrong to teach someone to not be angry or frustrated... Because in both circumstances, the person is being led away from his/her nature. People should be free to be who they are - as long as they don't hurt others. And a person banging/breaking a curling broom does not hurt other people. Others may not like it, or may find it 'immature', or 'stupid', or what have you - and they are free to feel that way. But a person banging/breaking a broom DOES NOT affect them directly unless they want it to affect them directly. And there are people who DO want it to affect them so that they can exert control over the other person. These people could just as easily ignore the broom banging/breaking and go on with their lives. That they make an issue out of it is, I feel, a far greater offence than the person who banged/broke his/her broom - because it is akin to a 'personal attack' against the person. Whereas the banging/breaking of the broom was not in any way a personal affront of anyone - it is a mere general expression of built-up frustration, and is a completely natural reaction for some people. For those for whom such an expression is not natural to demand that everyone be just like them is both disrespectful and unrealistic. Not to mention unnatural.
I'm a firm believer in individuality; in the unique elements which make us individuals and as different from each other as snowflakes are said to be. Once control over a person's behaviour is exerted, it not only stifles individuality in favour of similarity, but it also opens up a Pandora's box of disrespecting the individual and encourages similar such abuses.
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
My reference to being an adult is to get passed feeling like that is not meant to be anything more than a reference to the fact that it is an adult concept to learn your shortcomings and better yourself.
I see it from a different perspective...
The concept of 'becoming an adult' is filled with obedience and conformity and stifling your nature. As children, we are honest. As we 'grow up', we become less and less our real selves, as societal pressures result in a degree (usually a very large degree) of obedience and conformity - which inherently take us further and further away from our own individual, unique nature.
This is why I adore kids - because they will give you an honest answer when you ask them "does this dress make me look fat?" (I am not inferring that you wear dresses). Honesty is a truly wonderful element - and one which has been lost in the 'adult world' of this culture. The horrible 'Political Correctness' movement capitalizes on this, effectively trying to brainwash everyone into believing that its better to be dishonest than it is to be honest and thus risk 'offending' someone. And so people spend their lives looking to be 'offended' by something, or forfeiting their nature in trying desperately to ensure that they don't offend anyone. In both scenarios, the person is effectively removed from his/her nature, and becomes a mere shadow of his/her true self.
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
If you feel that limiting your anger outbursts is not for your betterment, then by all means have at it.
Yes... absolutely. This is the very definition of freedom - as opposed to oppression and control.
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
Unfortunately, most people get very uncomfortable around people like that, as they may feel unsafe or just empathetic and/or awkward towards seeing someone need to act that way. And, making people feel uncomfortable is not a way to keep them around the club, so that is where I believe everyone could do right to limit anger and help keep clubs and members coming back happy to play with or against you.
This is the crux of the matter right here ^.
Indeed, some people do feel 'unsafe' or 'uncomfortable' if a person bangs/breaks his/her broom. But that is THEIR problem - it is a weakness on their part to be so personally affected by an action which was not in any way directed at them personally. Rather than attempting to understand (and accept) the expression of frustration, they, through their personal insecurity, decide to be 'negatively affected' by it. This reminds me of the Eleanor Roosevelt quotation "No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent." But even that was in reference to personal criticism. A person banging/breaking a broom is not a personal action against anyone - and so for anyone to be 'offended' by this action is, to me, ludicrous. It is someone who is actively seeking to create a problem by taking an action which was not directed at them as something personal. If these people are too insecure and weak to simply ignore the broom banging/breaking, then the problem lies with them, clearly.
'Political correctness' enters into the equation in that the 'political correctness' movement tells people that being 'offended' is the worst crime known to Man, and that everyone deserves to live life without ever feeling 'offended'. This, as is obvious to the even mildly intelligent, is completely unrealistic. But weak people buy into it, and this, combined with their own insecurity, leads them to see people 'offending' them within completely impersonal, benign actions (like banging/breaking a curling broom). And so they try to control the behaviour of others when they should be instead working on how to render themselves less insecure and more self-assured so that benign actions like that do not affect them.
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
I do not want to control others emotions, despite what you seem to believe from your replies.
Telling people that their behaviour must conform to what someone else considers 'proper behaviour' is inherently controlling - there is no getting away from that fact.
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
I simply was trying to make a case how I can see the reasoning behind a rule with good intentions of promoting everyone to enjoy the game together in the same spirit as it was many years ago.
What if demanding that a person 'controls' his behaviour so that it conforms to someone else's idea of 'proper behaviour' results in the person being controlled enjoying the game less, because he/she is not permitted to follow his/her nature? Obviously, in this scenario, not everyone thus "enjoys the game together".
Its similar in a way to the current Colin Kaepernick circumstance, which has led to certain MFL players not standing for the national anthem. A given person may disagree with this behaviour - may find it immature, or even disgusting... disagree with it as much as you want, but do not try to stifle them or remove their right to behave that way. They have the intrinsic right to behave that way - EVEN IF OTHERS DON'T LIKE IT. Their behaviour hurts no-one... the only people who are bothered by it are those who choose to be bothered by it. But that is neither the fault nor the responsibility of the players who refuse to stand for the anthem.
Granted, the situation is different because this behaviour is based on principle, and not a natural, instinctive reaction - but the principle is the same in that people possess the right to behave the way that they want, as long as they arent hurting anyone. If some people choose to be bothered or disturbed by a persons actions or behaviour, then fine - but dont blame the person performing the action for you choosing to be bothered or disturbed - that's on YOU.
I feel the onus should be put on those seeking to control the behaviour of others - they should fix things within themselves so that they become self-confident and self assured enough to not be affected or bothered or disturbed by someone banging/breaking a boom, or by someone wearing 'ugly' clothes, or by someone simply being different from themselves. Only insecure people feel threatened by someone/something which is different from them - and the root of it all is a lack of understanding that which is different. But when the people don't even make the slightest effort to learn and understand that which is different, they then forfeit any possible right to control others.
I have made the effort here to explain my perspective in significant detail because you seem to me to be the only one within this discussion to be both willing to and capable of understanding it. Not necessarily agreeing with it (although it's fine if you do!), but at least willing and capable of understanding it. Most of the others who've engaged in this discussion are either content to address only the superficial surface of the issue, or are simply bent on juvenile insults, without contributing anything of actual value.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited by On The Nose on 09-24-16 at 04:10AM
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| 09-24-16 03:22AM |
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JustAnotherHack
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2012
Location: BC, Ontario (and a few other places too...)
Posts: 268 |
quote:
Originally posted by jamcan
In short, this a subjective decision best left to, hopefully, well trained umpires.
Well shoot, you made me laugh!
__________________
Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
- Calvin (Calvin & Hobbs)
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| 09-24-16 03:59AM |
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340 |
quote:
Originally posted by JustAnotherHack
Well shoot, you made me laugh!
If you think that's funny, check my blog, lol!
__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson
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| 09-27-16 09:16PM |
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340 |
quote:
Originally posted by hogginsheets
it cured me of my insomnia
About time you read it. lol its mostly about you.
__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson
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| 09-28-16 11:08AM |
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biterbar
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 695 |
I wonder how many brooms Nose has broken in his career. For anyone to take the time to continue his palaverous posts he must be trying to, in his own mind anyway, justify being an a$$h@t.
Have a good season Nose, make sure none of those broom shards take anyone's eye out.
__________________
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire"-Winston Churchill
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| 09-28-16 11:24AM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
I just wish he would stop using what they do in one sport, say tennis, as an excuse for doing the same thing in Curling. It is idiotic and pointless.
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| 09-29-16 01:02AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by biterbar
I wonder how many brooms Nose has broken in his career. For anyone to take the time to continue his palaverous posts he must be trying to, in his own mind anyway, justify being an a$$h@t.
Have a good season Nose, make sure none of those broom shards take anyone's eye out.
My God, are you that desperate that you need lower yourself to creating imaginary sensationalistic scenarios? Broom shards taking someone's eye out? Really? This merely shows that you've no solid argument, and so must rely on ridiculous sensationalism. And, as I've said, you won't fool intelligent people with that content (as is shown in the post immediately following yours).
Some of you seem to believe that you can separate the issue of broom banging/breaking from the issue of freedom. But they cannot be separated. No way. It's about controlling people's behaviour to conform with what YOU think is right. And this inherently and fundamentally goes against the very concept of a free society.
I am obviously not referring to extreme behaviours like murder, rape, etc... those behaviours need to be controlled because within them there is a clear threat to the safety and well-being of others. Broom banging/breaking is in no way a threat to others (despite your ridiculous, sensationalistic mention of 'broom shards in people's eyes' - sigh)...
It is incredibly arrogant to try to control the benign behaviour of others just because you don't like it. It is akin to trying to control the way a person dresses, preventing a person from wearing clothes that you don't like. It is the height of arrogance.
There is no way that you should be permitted to control another person's behaviour so that he/she behaves in the manner which you want him/her to behave. This is the complete opposite of freedom, obviously.
Go ahead and think that someone who bangs or breaks a broom is an ass - that is your right. But forcing a person to stop an action which harms no-one - unless they WANT to be harmed by it - is NOT your right. In a truly free society, you have no more right to stop someone from expressing frustration on the ice than I have to force someone to express MORE frustration on the ice. It's the same thing, just in opposite directions - though some of you don't seem to possess the capacity to see that. Whether that's because your agenda depends upon you not seeing it, or you truly do not possess the capacity to understand it, is anyone's guess.
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Last edited by On The Nose on 09-29-16 at 01:30AM
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| 09-29-16 01:13AM |
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On The Nose
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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
I just wish he would stop using what they do in one sport, say tennis, as an excuse for doing the same thing in Curling. It is idiotic and pointless.
It points to precedent at a professional sports level (which is equivalent to the 'elite level' of curling).
If you cannot comprehend the obvious relevance, I cannot help you.
Nor, I believe, can anyone else.
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"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| 09-29-16 01:30AM |
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hogginsheets
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
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You people have to find a new hobby this is childish banter name calling achieving nothing, except making yourselves look immature.
Find a hobby, take up knitting, skydiving, or the act of respect.
Mindless insults at your ages is a sad reflection upon yourselves. 
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| 09-29-16 07:10AM |
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dugless_zone 13
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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose
It points to precedent at a professional sports level (which is equivalent to the 'elite level' of curling).
If you cannot comprehend the obvious relevance, I cannot help you.
Nor, I believe, can anyone else.
well, in hockey, when someone bothers you you can punch him in the face, sit out five minutes, then continue on. If we are pointing out precedent as an excuse to allow it in a sport because another sport allows it then maybe Curling adds this to deal with those who break brooms.
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| 09-29-16 04:35PM |
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hogginsheets
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 83 |
quote:
Originally posted by jamcan
Broomgate Part 1-because you knew I couldn't resist...
https://therockstopshere.wordpress.com/
Ok I actually read it this time, it is very fascinating reading as I am referenced several times, how could this not be published already?
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| 10-05-16 01:52PM |
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lolar3288
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638 |
Well I really hate to butt into my original post but what does broom slapping have to do with what clubs are going to do about broom fabric when it comes to house rules?
Many clubs just state they follow OCA rules but are they now going to make a club statement on brooms? Can't see telling once a week curlers they all need new broom heads....
Oh, and by goodness I have slapped a broom now and then.....sorry , just had to say it!
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| 10-05-16 02:03PM |
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RockDoc
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Registered: Apr 2005
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Posts: 399 |
quote:
Originally posted by lolar3288
Well I really hate to butt into my original post but what does broom slapping have to do with what clubs are going to do about broom fabric when it comes to house rules?
Many clubs just state they follow OCA rules but are they now going to make a club statement on brooms? Can't see telling once a week curlers they all need new broom heads....
I agree that how clubs respond in the short term (before existing inventory of banned heads runs out) is a potential, if limited problem. For social leagues, it doesn't matter. Any event leading to national championships is also going to be covered by the championship rules. The issue will be the "in-between" events like club championships or bonspiels where there may be players expert enough to harness the effects of directional sweeping.
Both the WCF and USA Curling have adopted a three-prong approach: (1) there are no rules prohibiting brush choice at the club level; (2) clubs may institute their own restrictions for certain events, and (3) expert players in any event may want to consider the ethics of using prohibited materials.
The heartening news is that I have already heard from many bonspiel players early this season inquiring about obtaining conforming equipment, a personal ethical choice. The other good news is that the conforming material may be more durable for club players than originally suspected. In the long term, I think manufacturers will move toward compliant or nearly-compliant materials. Directional sweeping is here to stay, but maybe not so effective anymore with compliant materials (or clapped out non-compliant materials.)
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| 10-05-16 02:32PM |
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biterbar
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Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:
Originally posted by RockDoc
I agree that how clubs respond in the short term (before existing inventory of banned heads runs out) is a potential, if limited problem.
Is there ANY proof that manufacturers are not manufacturing non-compliant heads? On the contrary, I believe they are still in full production on all broom heads whether they comply or not. The heads are not illegal for "recreational" play.
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| 10-05-16 02:48PM |
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RockDoc
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:
Originally posted by biterbar
Is there ANY proof that manufacturers are not manufacturing non-compliant heads? On the contrary, I believe they are still in full production on all broom heads whether they comply or not. The heads are not illegal for "recreational" play.
I can't say for sure what the manufacturers are actually currently making new, but as they release new brush designs (e.g., the new Goldline brush) the old materials will not be compatible, so more compliant choices can be made if desired. I think the idea is to leave some room for manufacturers to continue to innovate without going to the "clown broom" materials. For purely social curlers without the necessary skills to directionally sweep, it is not going to matter. I would like to think that manufacturers are not going to release additional "blackhead" like materials in the future.
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| 10-06-16 11:28AM |
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ngm
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Registered: Feb 2011
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Here are two WCF statements, which (for example) the OCA supports (perhaps other governing bodies do as well):
- For leagues, competitions or events where substantial prizes or awards are earned, it may be advisable to require sweeping equipment conforming to WCF specifications be used as a condition of competition.
- In keeping with the Spirit of Curling, individuals who are elite competitors or very proficient sweepers should consider whether it is fair that they use non-conforming equipment in a recreational competition even if the rules allow it.
Last edited by ngm on 10-06-16 at 11:50AM
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| 10-06-16 12:33PM |
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lolar3288
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638 |
Where seniors are concerned some still have hair brooms. Also with some other seniors material is not an issue as most of it is covered with 5 years of ice dirt!
We shall see how it goes! Those $5 MM cards are highly valued in senior play so some blackheads may creep into the picture!
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