Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Kitchener
Posts: 380

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Originally posted by curlerbroad
Yep, that's the sentiment shared my curling gals, $30 ok to play 2 games against former Scotties champs but would rather pay $60 for a bonspiel. I am also finding a reluctance to try and compete...lately the only one who is eager to compete in OCA amongst my friends is 78 & regularly curls 3x a days at lead! Women half her age moan & groan about how "tough" the play downs are. Maybe we as a society are becoming wimpier.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Unregistered
So now are we going to hear about how the system needs to be changed because a team with four losses in the qualifying process didn't get there?

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quote:

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Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
Excluding the top 3-4 teams, the rest would be equivalent of most other provinces, other than AB and MB. If you don't count the automatic points these teams earn by playing each other EVERY week, they'd be just like every other team in Canada trying to make their way to the brier. Yes, congrats you have the OCA tour, but it's still the viscious circle of points. Teams with points playing vs teams with points will earn MORE points, regardless of talent level. Teams playing within THEIR provinces of teams that can't afford to travel to play against teams with GUARANTEED points EVERY week, will NEVER earn enough points to compete against their Ontario counterparts. The one example that can be used for THIS season is Casey from PEI. Yes they did well but they had to travel to about 15 spiels to earn their points. And they had major sponsorship and CCA funding. How many teams can take 50 days vacation from work to do this? None is the answer unless you're full time curlers.

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Registered: Jun 2004
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Originally posted by curlerbroad


Funny it was like that the Bonspiel I curled in there in Nov over...and the ice was very heavy too.

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quote:

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Originally posted by CURLING NUTS
Loss to Ross then McDonald? Who wudda thunk it?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Unregistered
Can we stop blaming "bad ice" for the lack of success of these spoiled "slam" teams.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Unregistered
So now are we going to hear about how the system needs to be changed because a team with four losses in the qualifying process didn't get there?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Batty

excuse me ..two feet or curl is plenty to bury a stone

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quote:

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Originally posted by CURLING NUTS
Loss to Ross then McDonald? Who wudda thunk it?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Unregistered


Hi Pete,

The baseball analogy is in fact valid. The point was that the history of the event and something that I liked was that no one got any quarter based on previous play. We all started at the club level whether world champion or not. The series winner has to play the 162 games to get back just like the teams that it beat last year.

I think it should be within the single competition, you think it shouldn't and so you like the bye. You are welcome to you opinion and I to mine

You don't have any comment (I find that near impossible to believe) on the other 90 percent of what was commented on? Do you support the change to allow teams to be made up of players from out of province? If yes, why change this?

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Registered: Jul 2007
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Well, Howard has been in provincials for years. I want a change and there's no Howard this year. Things come to an end and I'm glad about this.

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I have been reading the posts regarding "bad" ice and various theories on why the Howard team are not going to the provincials. In reality it is fairly simple.

The team played in the play downs and lost.
The team played in the Challenge Round and lost.
Neither of those venues were a "one loss and your out format". They lost the games they needed to win to advance.

In my humble opinion that pretty much sums up why the Howard team are not in the provincials.

There are some excellent teams in Ontario and some very good up and coming junior teams. I look forward to seeing them all play. Although the Howard team has a much higher profile than any other team in Ontario (not including N.O), they simply failed to qualify. Not much head scratching needed on that front.

We can talk about changing the format so that high performing teams in the slams get buys into the provincials but that change will not happen via this format. The Ontario Curling Association would have to be lobbied and fairly compelling arguments made. Until then it is what it is. Play down format; the same for all.

As for talk about ice conditions, curlers from other countries have laughed at our excuses for failing to win world titles when Canadian teams and broadcasters blame the poor ice or rocks. I am cognizant that perfect conditions are ideal for great shot making but in reality that is not going to happen. Various factors such as weather, changing ice conditions etc. adversely affect playing surfaces. As in golf, conditions vary. Those who can adjust, win. Those who cannot adjust, lose.

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Location: Peterborough
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quote:

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Originally posted by Desifan
Well, Howard has been in provincials for years. I want a change and there's no Howard this year. Things come to an end and I'm glad about this.

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Howard lost.

I'm sure most people have pointed out that Rory McIlroy and Roger Federer don't have to sign up at the beginning of what are OPEN championships. Yes, those are slightly different examples, and when it comes to curling, places like Bradford, Ontario are different animals.

Bad ice is one thing. We've all played on bad ice � ice you can't make shots. THe great Pete Stetski made a draw around a guard that was about a foot over the hog, and 7 inches off the center line, and we couldn't hit and stay. Impossible.

That's bad ice. When shots can't be made, regardless of talent or experience. Been there.

Bad rocks though, that's even worse. It is harder to pick up bad rocks on bad ice. It is hard to determine if a rocks curls more when rocks don't curl. harder to pick up slower rocks on slow ice.

Unlike other sports, ours is a repeatable game. To compare it to golf, our game is mostly played on the green with the golf course's putter. We have the muscle memory to make the draw, but we need to use the club's rocks. So, if there happens to be bad rocks, the identification of that bad rock does more than just cost a couple of points. It messes with your head. Inside that cranium of ours, we wonder, how much of that miss was us, and how much the rock. The good players have short memories. Yes, I can remember the draw Pete made on sheet D, but in the game, we have to let it go.

So here's what I'll end with. We should be dissapointed in a format that forces one of the best players the province has ever produced to struggle with rocks and ice.

He deserves better, and we deserve to see him ply his trade a few more times in conditions that bring out his best. Not conditions like this.

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Thanks to all our viewers yesterday. We peaked at a little over 550 for the second Howard game. Lots of fun, and for the most part the chat are stayed civil. Thanks also to Bradford CC. They were kind to me, and built a great setup in the lounge for the fans in the stands.

The game story from where I sat was: Team Ross and Team McDonald both played extremely well.

In particular: Scott McDonald made two all-world pistols to get his victory: a 15 foot quiet angle raise to turn a steal of one into a score of two in the 4th, and in the 10th: an outstanding draw to the side of the lid to force an extra. Actually: let's give the McDonald front end most of the credit for that last one: great judgement and sweeping.

http://www.curlinggeek.com/screenca...cDonald-4th.png

http://www.curlinggeek.com/screenca...Donald-10th.png

I'll repeat something said elsewhere: Team Howard has been all-class this whole month. Richard's comments here and on the podcast were honest, frank and respectful. Last night they came up to the lounge after the game, had a few beverages with their opponents, and interacted with the fans. I'm sure they would have rather crawled under a rock, but they didn't.

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Are you doing any more games today? Great coverage yesterday, almost like being there.

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quote:

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Originally posted by CurlingGeek
Thanks to all our viewers yesterday. We peaked at a little over 550 for the second Howard game. Lots of fun, and for the most part the chat are stayed civil. Thanks also to Bradford CC. They were kind to me, and built a great setup in the lounge for the fans in the stands.

The game story from where I sat was: Team Ross and Team McDonald both played extremely well.

In particular: Scott McDonald made two all-world pistols to get his victory: a 15 foot quiet angle raise to turn a steal of one into a score of two in the 4th, and in the 10th: an outstanding draw to the side of the lid to force an extra. Actually: let's give the McDonald front end most of the credit for that last one: great judgement and sweeping.

http://www.curlinggeek.com/screenca...cDonald-4th.png


http://www.curlinggeek.com/screenca...Donald-10th.png

I'll repeat something said elsewhere: Team Howard has been all-class this whole month. Richard's comments here and on the podcast were honest, frank and respectful. Last night they came up to the lounge after the game, had a few beverages with their opponents, and interacted with the fans. I'm sure they would have rather crawled under a rock, but they didn't.

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IMHO,
Instead of trying to design a system to ensure the "top" team doesn't lose in events with "bad" conditions, perhaps money and training should be directed by the OCA and CCA to clubs hosting these events to improve the conditions? CCA seems to be spending a lot of money on events for the elite (Canada Cup, Continental Cup) which we can debate should even exist instead of money for Provincial and National Championships.

As for Ontario system itself. Most curlers have been discussing improvements for at least a decade. It becomes higher profile when a team like Team Howard has to participate.

My ideal scenario takes a page from Alberta and Sask (they both have Southerns and Northerns being played right now). Ontario should have Eastern and Western. Here is the format.

Team 1, defending champ
Team 2, Leader in Ontario Tour points (Not CTRS as that is national and the Provincials should be about the teams playing in the province.
Team 3 and 4 - Winners of Superspiels earlier in the season. A return of the Welton in the east and perhaps use the Stu Shells as the other.
Teams 5-8 - Winners of 16 team Easterns (Region 1 and 2). Triple knock out for 4 spots.
Teams 9-12 - Winners of 16 team Westerns (Region 3 and 4). Triple knock out for 4 spots.

You get to the 16 team eastern/western via 4 regional open events. Triple knock out format for 8 spots.

Eliminate Challenge round.

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I think alberta and saskatchewan have the best way of doing things overall.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Batty


that fourth end shot was something else

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Too bad the best teams 20 years and 30 years ago were never able to win because of ice and rocks

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quote:

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Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
Are you doing any more games today? Great coverage yesterday, almost like being there.

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Last edited by CurlingGeek on 01-18-15 at 11:21AM

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quote:

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Originally posted by CurlingGeek
Thanks to all our viewers yesterday. We peaked at a little over 550 for the second Howard game. Lots of fun, and for the most part the chat are stayed civil. Thanks also to Bradford CC. They were kind to me, and built a great setup in the lounge for the fans in the stands.

The game story from where I sat was: Team Ross and Team McDonald both played extremely well.

In particular: Scott McDonald made two all-world pistols to get his victory: a 15 foot quiet angle raise to turn a steal of one into a score of two in the 4th, and in the 10th: an outstanding draw to the side of the lid to force an extra. Actually: let's give the McDonald front end most of the credit for that last one: great judgement and sweeping.

http://www.curlinggeek.com/screenca...cDonald-4th.png

http://www.curlinggeek.com/screenca...Donald-10th.png

I'll repeat something said elsewhere: Team Howard has been all-class this whole month. Richard's comments here and on the podcast were honest, frank and respectful. Last night they came up to the lounge after the game, had a few beverages with their opponents, and interacted with the fans. I'm sure they would have rather crawled under a rock, but they didn't.

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Originally posted by CURLING NUTS


No wonder McDonald won. In the 4th end screen capture you provide, McDonald had 5 rocks left to Howards 3 .

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Originally posted by Gerry


Adam Casey got no CCA funding and had limited sponsorship. They funded their travels up front and only recently added sponsorship they gained from the exposure they got for WINNING.

Sponsorship is not a gift, it's earned just like any dollar on the ice is earned.

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