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| 09-19-16 12:00AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
You keep referring to Tennis and the rules of that sport and relating them to curling when in fact the rules of one sport have no application to the other sport.
Of course there is relevance, as you're stating that a player who breaks a broom in anger or frustration should not be permitted to use a replacement broom - and I am comparing that to the rules in other sports at a professional level (which is equivalent to the elite level of curling) - and showing that no other sport at a professional level has a rule like this. And that is entirely relevant.
quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
Rules have been in place for years dealing with the breaking of brooms or other abusive acts during a game. If you break a broom in anger during a game you get to spend as much quality time as you want with it's replacement in the dressing room.
I do not believe this is a black & white rule. It is open to the interpretation of the officials, as it should be. If you get a devotee of 'political correctness' such as yourself officiating, who thinks that all curlers need to be holier than thou and need to change their underwear twice per game, of course you're going to get ejections - because that makes you seem important.
But a level-headed official who understands human behaviour, and who understands that some people are more intense than others, would not have such a knee-jerk reaction.
quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
I've officiated hundreds of competitive events and thousands of games at these events and have dealt with three instances of brooms broken in anger and in all three the player was removed from the game and therefore not in need of a replacement broom. As a side note, players who were on the ice at the same time as the player that was removed had far less flattering words concerning the ejected player than the term I used, one team was so impressed with his actions that they removed him from the team and finished the day with three players.
I obviously can't speak to these examples, as I did not witness them. I will, however, say that if all the players did was bang a broom in frustration, and it broke, ejecting them from the game was unnecessary overkill - by far. If, on the other hand, these players yelled and screamed and swore as they broke their brooms, that's another story.
quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
As for a rule taking away the players broom, that rule is already there, a team bringing in a new broom automatically forfeits the game ( and since the broom wasn't broken in the normal course of play there is no reason for the head official to allow a substitute, and his/ her ruling is final).
Once again, this is open to interpretation... What is "the normal course of play"? If I'm officiating, there are definitely circumstances where I would consider breaking a broom in frustration to be the "normal course of play". Those who are on this Earth to defend the 'political correctness' agenda would obviously have a different, much more controlling opinion, influenced by their agenda.
quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
You talk about understanding human nature but the thing you seem to miss is man's biggest ability, the ability to adapt. If they change the rules to something the ones that adapt the quickest thrive while those that don't fall by the wayside. If the put a one racquet rule in tennis then tennis players would not smash racquet's. simple as that.
I respect the individual's inherent and intrinsic right to be independent and unique, and not a carbon copy of others, and not a mere product of what someone like you think he 'should' be, according to YOUR sense of 'right' and 'wrong'.
I do not respect overzealous people who try to control other people by having everyone 'behave' in the way that he/she feels is 'correct'.
They have NOT put in a 'one racquet rule' in tennis - and that's my point. The officials haven't done this because they understand human behaviour and human emotion, simply - and they realize that some players need that outlet for their frustrations.
And 'racquets' does not require an apostrophe in your sentence.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited by On The Nose on 09-19-16 at 12:12AM
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| 09-19-16 12:20AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by Itsjustagame
Please do not confuse competitiveness, desire to win and passion with useless, immature and childish behaviors like swearing and breaking brooms.
If you believe that expressing frustration is "useless", you simply don't understand human behaviour beyond a very surface and superficial level.
I am in no way confused.
I simply don't like or respect overzealous people who try to control the behaviour of others to what YOU think is 'correct behaviour'. I believe in freedom; I believe that people should be permitted to be the individuals they are - within reason, of course - you can't allow people to assault others, for instance... but breaking a broom in frustration should not affect anyone but the person breaking the broom. If it affects you that deeply, then YOU have a problem.
quote:
Originally posted by Itsjustagame
It is offensive to the great curlers and all of the recreational ones who play with honor and in true respect of the spirit of the game.
God forbid anyone ever be offended!! This is 'political correctness' BS 101.
I'm certainly not offended by honest expressions of frustration at all. No more than I'm offended by honest expressions of joy or happiness. It's all natural - and who are you or anyone else to try to control people so that only pretty, happy emotions are permitted, and not angry or frustrated emotions?
In the pretty 'politically correct' world, everyone becomes essentially the same person. No-one is permitted to express frustration or anger or disagreement... everyone must put on an act and be phony, pretending to agree with everyone, pretending to be 'happy' even when they are angry or frustrated. This obviously creates a very phony, fake and artificial existence.
No, thanks. I prefer REAL people, warts and all.
Stop trying to control people.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited by On The Nose on 09-19-16 at 12:27AM
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| 09-19-16 09:49AM |
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340 |
While I may be incorrect, I believe the new rules do allow for equipment replacement in the event of damage but it's at the discretion of an official.
Also, player ejection for behavior is also at the discretion of an official.
In short, this a subjective decision best left to, hopefully, well trained umpires.
This, as nose correctly points out, happens in other sports where behavior is concerned. Not every emotional outburst results in ejection from the game or with additional penalties beyond that match.
As a reluctant new owner of a compliant broom I can attest that they are IMO, not as durable as, say, an old style, completely wooden brush.
They're not going to shatter with a light tap on the end boards, but start performing overheard two-handers on a bench and watch out for shrapnel.
But a light tap or quiet curse word shouldn't get you ejected. A full-on, hissy fit, equipment destroying tantrum should.
People are, nose once again correct, human and fallable. But they also should adapt, I think that was dugless, and placing a reasonable expectation on athletes is not asking too much. Most sports that I know of do have rules like that in place.
__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson
Last edited by jamcan on 09-19-16 at 10:01AM
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| 09-19-16 11:12AM |
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youngen
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 99 |
Why get so bent out of shape about this?
It is not about political correctness or controlling others emotional responses through rules. It is about encouraging competitors to honor the history of the game. I don't think there should HAVE to be a rule on breaking your broom, but that doesn't mean I don't support there being a rule to encourage those who just have no respect for the game's history.
If you had respect for the game, you would realize that the reason it was so respected by the people who played and grew it was for its ability to display multiple aspects of being a true sportsman. It was regarded as the utmost display of achievement to be able to play athletically and competitively against an opponent while utilizing strategy, maintaining your control over emotions and still enjoying the social rewards of camaraderie with all others who played.
If you can't control yourself in the course of a game, that doesn't affect me so I really don't care. But IMO: Only spoiled brats see a value in destroying something they worked for in return for a brief feeling of satisfaction. Proving yourself as an adult is to think past that feeling and remember that it is a pointless action and does not really fix the root cause. Anger is always a secondary emotion that people use to mask the true feeling like being scared, humiliated or hurt. Recognizing the underlying emotion while dismissing the anger is to be an adult. That is why the history of the game is so attached to overcoming emotional displays. It shows you growing not only as an athlete and competitor, but as a better person overall. And I think that is a tradition worth honoring.
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| 09-19-16 03:11PM |
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dixarone
Knee-Slider
Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 7 |
Pretty sure it is not about being PC
Not sure why the back and forth on political correctness, integrity of the game, etc. As far as the rules are concerned, it seems that the prime focus is to not allow secondary equipment onto the ice:
- you can't switch out brooms yourself
- you can't switch brooms between people already on the ice
- you can't bring a new broom on the ice if you're replacing someone, you have to use their broom
So...if you break your broom in an emotional outburst, you're not allowed to switch it out, as per the rules. Whether players think there is an advantage to swapping brooms out halfway through a game, the rules certainly seem to think so. A player breaking his broom in a rage is looked upon no differently than a player calmly swapping out his broom head for other reasons. There is no room for interpretation as to whether a player was actually angry, or was just acting angry so as to gain an advantage by brining a new broom onto the ice.
Cut and dried if you ask me.
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| 09-19-16 04:35PM |
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curlky
Drawmaster
Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 559 |
quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
I'm curious why you compare sport to white collar jobs? For the role they play, the battle and intensity of sport, it feels a lot more like blue collar work where cursing, etc is much more acceptable on the job.
The white collar jobs in sport are in the front offices, the press boxes, etc. Where swearing and showing emotion like that isn't acceptable.
Curling, like golf might feel more white collar, but it still pushes players emotions to the edge.
Gerry this is way off topic, but since you asked, and it is your site, I will answer. I actually think of sport more like a hybrid. The actual competition is more of a blue collar activity, but your behavior needs to be more white collar. I should not have used such broad terms. But with certain blue collar jobs (and not all) such as iron workers or construction jobs, you are away from any customers and most white collar jobs. As a result you can be given more leeway. Hit your thumb with a hammer, if you scream, throw the hammer down and use some cuss words, for the most part no one really cares and you would not be disciplined. However if you are an accountant, accidentally delete a file, if you stood up screamed at your PC cussing it out, and then picked up your PC and threw it down to the ground, you would be fired on the spot. That was all I meant by my collar analogy. Probably wasnt a good one.
I am not advocating curlers to all be quiet politically correct people who wear no emotions. I have no issue with a yell here or there, a cuss word here or there, and terrible body language of disgust. And I respect that it is your right to throw a physical tantrum and throw your broom or break your broom. But you in need to accept that there can be repercussions for any action, and in my view throwing equipment goes above what is acceptable behavior (which most other sports concur on this) and should eb punished in some way you see fit. For me, I would not allow a person to get a new broom, maybe you feel that it too harsh.
Do whatever you want I guess. But as I have said tons of times, the curling rule book is awful and allows just about anything to go down.
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| 09-19-16 09:35PM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
Hopefully Nose is playing in the OCA and signs up for as many competitions as possible. They will make a fortune off of him.
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| 09-20-16 02:39AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
Re: Pretty sure it is not about being PC
quote:
Originally posted by dixarone
Not sure why the back and forth on political correctness, integrity of the game, etc. As far as the rules are concerned, it seems that the prime focus is to not allow secondary equipment onto the ice:
- you can't switch out brooms yourself
- you can't switch brooms between people already on the ice
- you can't bring a new broom on the ice if you're replacing someone, you have to use their broom
So...if you break your broom in an emotional outburst, you're not allowed to switch it out, as per the rules. Whether players think there is an advantage to swapping brooms out halfway through a game, the rules certainly seem to think so. A player breaking his broom in a rage is looked upon no differently than a player calmly swapping out his broom head for other reasons. There is no room for interpretation as to whether a player was actually angry, or was just acting angry so as to gain an advantage by brining a new broom onto the ice.
Cut and dried if you ask me.
I believe that somewhere in the (new) rules on sweeping/brooms, it is written that brooms can be replaced if they are broken. I don't think it mentions how the breakage occurs.
Besides, I don't think that players will be desperate/foolish/dishonest to the point of deliberately feigning anger to break a broom just so they can have a new pad...
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| 09-20-16 03:10AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
Why get so bent out of shape about this?
It is not about political correctness or controlling others emotional responses through rules. It is about encouraging competitors to honor the history of the game. I don't think there should HAVE to be a rule on breaking your broom, but that doesn't mean I don't support there being a rule to encourage those who just have no respect for the game's history.
As I'm sure you'd expect, I disagree with you...
A player banging a broom in frustration (whether it breaks or not) in no way means that said player does not respect the history of the game. In fact, it could, in some circumstances, indicate the precise opposite, and that is why said player is so passionate and intense - because he/she very much respects the game and its history.
As others are, you are assessing the expression of frustration on a merely surface and superficial level...
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
If you had respect for the game, you would realize that the reason it was so respected by the people who played and grew it was for its ability to display multiple aspects of being a true sportsman. It was regarded as the utmost display of achievement to be able to play athletically and competitively against an opponent while utilizing strategy, maintaining your control over emotions and still enjoying the social rewards of camaraderie with all others who played.
Once again, I disagree...
One can play the game fairly, and with the utmost respect for their opponents and the game AND get frustrated/angry at his/her own misses. Completely and absolutely.
What if the shoe were on the other foot? Would you accept that 'Player A' claims that 'Player B' has no respect for the game because 'Player B' shows NO emotion or intensity? This is just as plausible, is it not? I know you'd never accept that - but you ought to, because it's the very same principle as you accusing intense players who express frustration of not respecting the game.
I would never say that someone who shows no emotion or intensity lacks respect for the game. People display their passions in different manners - who am I to say what is an acceptable display of passion or intensity for someone else?
Who are YOU to say?
You would no doubt consider it absurd if I were to demand that unemotional players who demonstrate little to no intensity begin to outwardly express more emotion and intensity; if I were to say that their lack of outward intensity is simply not acceptable. But if such is absurd - because it is demanding that a person behave in a manner contrary to his/her nature -, then the opposite is just as absurd - for one to demand that an intense and emotional person go against his/her nature and repress his/her outward intensity simply to please others.
If the former demand is too controlling, the latter demand must also be considered too controlling.
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
If you can't control yourself in the course of a game, that doesn't affect me so I really don't care. But IMO: Only spoiled brats see a value in destroying something they worked for in return for a brief feeling of satisfaction.
Why are you (and others) setting up extreme and radical examples? Just because it helps your agenda? "Destroying"? Others, too, describe out of control behaviour...
We're talking about banging a broom in frustration, and the broom breaking. We're not talking about being out of control, and/or yelling and screaming over and over, or threatening others... We're not talking about yelling at opponents or accusing opponents of something for which they are not guilty... We're talking about simply expressing/releasing frustration that builds up about one's OWN poor play. Some people are outwardly passionate and intense, and get frustrated when they fail where they feel they should succeed. And so the frustration requires a release with some people - because - contrary to the wishes of 'political correctness', not everyone is the same person or has the same character. This expression/release of frustration is seen in every sport at every level - and it often goes unpunished because, quite simply, intensity and passion, and the resulting expression of frustration, is considered to be a natural part of sport.
It in no way means that those who are intense and/or who express emotion or frustration are 'bad' or 'wrong'. Not any more than are those who display no intensity or emotion or frustration are 'bad' or 'wrong'. Who are you to set the standards of behaviour for others based on your own set of supposed values? Set your behaviour standards for yourself, and leave others be.
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
Proving yourself as an adult is to think past that feeling and remember that it is a pointless action and does not really fix the root cause.
Says who? You?
I can say that proving oneself as an 'adult' (whatever an 'adult' is) is to refuse to conform and obey to others' expectations of you; to be your true and honest self; to be honest and real, and not put on a phony act or disguise just to please others who do not respect unique and individual character, but who instead wish to control you and to render you an obeying and conforming automaton.
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
Anger is always a secondary emotion that people use to mask the true feeling like being scared, humiliated or hurt. Recognizing the underlying emotion while dismissing the anger is to be an adult.
That's a bunch of bull. It sounds like something you got straight out of your local shrink's pamphlet distributed in the mail.
Anger is often rooted in frustration - such as in the frustration of performing poorly when you know you are capable of performing significantly better. In this scenario, frustration has nothing to do with "underlying feelings" of being "scared", "humiliated", or "hurt".
Honestly, that's not even an honourable attempt, amateur psychologist...
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
That is why the history of the game is so attached to overcoming emotional displays. It shows you growing not only as an athlete and competitor, but as a better person overall. And I think that is a tradition worth honoring.
Again, I disagree...
My idea of a 'better person' is not one who pretends and puts on an act in order to please those who wish to control him and fit him into a pretty, obedient, conforming box... my idea of a better person is one who respects him/herself, others, and the immediate environment enough to be his/her real, true, and honest self, without fear of being negatively judged by people who are out to control him/her.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited by On The Nose on 09-20-16 at 05:29AM
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| 09-20-16 08:08AM |
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biterbar
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 695 |
You can post all you want about the rights of curlers to break brooms, the deep seeded psychological causes and effects, that they are only being their "true and honest self", but 99% of other curlers will always see that curler as an immature jerk so all of the justification in the world really doesn't matter to the rest of us.
__________________
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire"-Winston Churchill
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| 09-20-16 08:56AM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
i liken breaking a broom to breaking a racquet in tennis. sometimes you just need to let the frustration out. it is the athletes own property. they get punished for it and i dont really agree that they should. sometimes you need to just let it all out so you can regroup and refocus
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| 09-20-16 10:20AM |
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youngen
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 99 |
quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose
As I'm sure you'd expect, I disagree with you...
Blah, Blah, etc., etc.
On The Nose
You are allowed to disagree. It would be nice if you showed respect when you did so, but such is life on internet forums. I have decided there is no point in trying to provide reasonable responses to someone who can be so disrespectful right back. Go ahead and continue to be a jerk towards everyone else. In respecting and following the words I said, I will back down from this argument because I don't let my anger control me, and I am not taking your bait. Good day.
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| 09-20-16 11:29AM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
Tennis is an individual sport where as curling is a team sport, when you throw one of your immature little temper tantrums you inconvenience seven other people on the ice surface, not just yourself. You should really read the rule book, and provincial rules supplements because they all state that abusive behavior of any kind, including broom breaking will not be tolerated. Either that, or start carrying lots of extra cash with you to pay the fines.
And Nose, what the heck is your fascination with needing to change your underwear all the time during games? Is there a physical problem that requires you to do this? Maybe that is the deep seeded root cause of your anger. There might be medication to help you with your apparent incontinence.
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| 09-20-16 11:34PM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by biterbar
You can post all you want about the rights of curlers to break brooms, the deep seeded psychological causes and effects, that they are only being their "true and honest self", but 99% of other curlers will always see that curler as an immature jerk so all of the justification in the world really doesn't matter to the rest of us.
So, you've appointed yourself spokesperson for "99% of curlers"...
Well, that would certainly aid your position/agenda, wouldn't it?
Of course, you don't speak for "99% of curlers". But I suppose you don't let the facts get in the way of your agenda to control the behaviour of other people so that they conform to what YOU think is 'right'...
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| 09-20-16 11:48PM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by youngen
On The Nose
You are allowed to disagree. It would be nice if you showed respect when you did so, but such is life on internet forums. I have decided there is no point in trying to provide reasonable responses to someone who can be so disrespectful right back. Go ahead and continue to be a jerk towards everyone else. In respecting and following the words I said, I will back down from this argument because I don't let my anger control me, and I am not taking your bait. Good day.
... And anyone who buys what you just wrote (above) isn't very bright.
Firstly, true respect has nothing to do with pretty words or phony politeness. If you like to put on phony acts, it's your right. I don't.
I responded to every one of your points, omitting nothing. I took the time and made the effort to respond point by point. And because I didn't populate my response with flowers and praise, you accuse me of "lacking respect". You like accusing others of lacking respect - that was the foundation of your argument about breaking brooms.
But, while I addressed and responded to the points you made, you, in turn, refer to my points as "Blah, Blah, etc., etc.", and claim that I'm "acting like a jerk". And you accuse ME of being disrespectful?!
That's quite funny. As I mentioned - you won't be fooling any intelligent people with your post...
Of course, the real reason you're not responding is because you have no counter-points... How utterly convenient, then, to fabricate a phony reason for your lack of concrete response...
Your response (above) is little more than fancy words for "I'm running away from this discussion because I cannot come up with sensible elements to counter your points. So I'm running away, but I don't want anyone to know that I'm running away, so I'm going to fabricate a false reason why I'm not responding to your points, and I'll do so by making false accusations of you so as to remove the focus from my running away".
Based on your comments that those who break their brooms in frustration do not respect the history of the game, and that I showed no respect to your comments, it is obvious that you've no clue whatsoever what real respect actually is. You clearly enjoy accusing others of lacking respect - but you demonstrate by your actions that you are the one who truly is lacking in respect.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited by On The Nose on 09-21-16 at 12:11AM
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| 09-21-16 12:01AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
Tennis is an individual sport where as curling is a team sport, when you throw one of your immature little temper tantrums you inconvenience seven other people on the ice surface, not just yourself. You should really read the rule book, and provincial rules supplements because they all state that abusive behavior of any kind, including broom breaking will not be tolerated. Either that, or start carrying lots of extra cash with you to pay the fines.
Again you go off to a radical extreme of "immature little temper tantrums" (you are quite haughty and condescending, as well). We're talking about breaking a broom in frustration - so why are you mentioning "tantrums"? Oh... I see... because you feel that that little manipulation of the discussion will aid your agenda... sigh...
If you find it "immature", that's fine. I, personally, find no real maturity in acting and pretending just to conform to and please others who enjoy controlling people's behaviour.
Tennis, by the way, is not always an individual sport. Doubles exists, as well - as does Davis Cup, Federation Cup, and Team Tennis - all team competitions.
Expressions of frustration are rampant in other team sports, as well... hockey, football, baseball, basketball - where even more than "seven other people are "inconvenienced". Not a game goes by in any of these team sports where at least one player does not overtly express frustration in some manner. Usually, several players can be seen doing this in any given game.
Welcome to the real world...
quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
And Nose, what the heck is your fascination with needing to change your underwear all the time during games? Is there a physical problem that requires you to do this? Maybe that is the deep seeded root cause of your anger. There might be medication to help you with your apparent incontinence.
^ This seems to be your attempt at being 'witty'.
You may want to make a better effort next time.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited by On The Nose on 09-21-16 at 12:13AM
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| 09-21-16 04:39AM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
Just so you know Nose, I have it from the highest authority that you break your broom in anger and you will not be getting another one. Continue on.
oh, it wasn't an attempt at being witty, just genuine concern over your apparent malady.
Last edited by dugless_zone 13 on 09-21-16 at 10:38AM
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| 09-21-16 09:11AM |
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biterbar
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 695 |
quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose
So, you've appointed yourself spokesperson for "99% of curlers"...
Well, that would certainly aid your position/agenda, wouldn't it?
Of course, you don't speak for "99% of curlers". But I suppose you don't let the facts get in the way of your agenda to control the behaviour of other people so that they conform to what YOU think is 'right'...
Yes, that is correct. I would have said 99.9% because you are the only one I have EVER heard defend a broom smasher. but I didn't want to over "self appoint" myself.
Broom smashers (have only seen a handful, none in 10 years), are politely told to leave our club. That is the only control I have over people to do what I think is right.
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Last edited by biterbar on 09-21-16 at 09:15AM
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| 09-22-16 02:24AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by biterbar
Yes, that is correct. I would have said 99.9% because you are the only one I have EVER heard defend a broom smasher. but I didn't want to over "self appoint" myself.
I've known several people who possess enough understanding of human behaviour to not be bothered by people who express their passion and intensity and frustration by, for example, banging/breaking a broom. Perhaps you should get out more...
Naturally, the majority will say that it's a 'terrible thing' to bang/break a broom in frustration - because the majority today are, sadly, mere sheep who follow the currently popular 'politically correct' movement whose mandate is to control everyone's behaviour so that everyone becomes essentially the same obedient person.
So, I agree that the majority would side with you and your controlling perspective (though nowhere near 99%). But, as intelligent people know, the majority are very rarely in the right.
quote:
Originally posted by biterbar
Broom smashers (have only seen a handful, none in 10 years), are politely told to leave our club. That is the only control I have over people to do what I think is right.
Sounds like you belong to a haughty, snobbish club.
It makes me think of what tennis clubs used to be - everyone made to wear clean white clothes, everyone's behaviour closely scrutinized to ensure obedience and conformity with what the haughty club administrators deemed 'proper' behaviour. Thankfully, tennis and tennis clubs have evolved since then to a level which respects the fact that people are different, and that some are more outwardly intense, and/or more competitive than others.
Here's hoping that your curling club will so evolve one day soon.
Again - I'm not advocating 'fits' of anger or 'tantrums', etc., where the player is effectively out of control for a period (even a short period), and swears loudly up and down and smashes things, etc., or who shows no respect for opponents, etc. What I am defending - and will always defend, because it is simply part of life - is the player who, in expressing anger/frustration toward his own missed shot, bangs a broom, and the broom breaks... and who may also swear so that someone who happens to be within 10 feet - but no further - may hear it.
People who want to so tightly control the behaviour of others so that it conforms to how THEY want people to behave are far more disrespectful than the 'broom breakers' I've just described.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited by On The Nose on 09-22-16 at 02:26AM
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| 09-22-16 07:05AM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
So Nose, humankind developed these things called societies where most people live happily. Like sport, society has rules or as they are also known, laws. Human behaviour, which you keep on harping about ( did you do your Masters Thesis on this topic?) for the most part follow the laws set out for them in order for the mankind to survive. Sometimes, there are a few people that come along that feel that they are above the rules, that the laws set out do not include them. They think that they can do whatever they desire and not have to answer for their actions. These are sociopaths. I think they find the need to change their underwear multiple times during their day. Welcome to your life.
by the way, please put up a link to your Masters Thesis on human behaviour, we are all dying to read wfat makes you an expert on people and how they act.
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| 09-22-16 08:09AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
So Nose, humankind developed these things called societies where most people live happily. Like sport, society has rules or as they are also known, laws. Human behaviour, which you keep on harping about ( did you do your Masters Thesis on this topic?) for the most part follow the laws set out for them in order for the mankind to survive. Sometimes, there are a few people that come along that feel that they are above the rules, that the laws set out do not include them. They think that they can do whatever they desire and not have to answer for their actions. These are sociopaths. I think they find the need to change their underwear multiple times during their day. Welcome to your life.
by the way, please put up a link to your Masters Thesis on human behaviour, we are all dying to read wfat makes you an expert on people and how they act.
I believe you've now mentioned 'underwear' more than I have. Are you obsessive in addition to being 'politically correct'?
If you're going to post here, please stick to the actual topic, rather than go off on deliberate, radical tangents, manipulatively mentioning extreme behaviour, people "doing whatever they want", etc.
We're talking about someone banging a broom so that it breaks. At last check, that act has never caused any harm to humankind, or to any sane, balanced person. It's a benign act - except to those sad souls who are desperately seeking to create a problem and to control people. There are people such as yourself who seek to create problems where no actual problem exists - simply so that you can appear 'important' and feed your ego by controlling the behaviour of others. Of course, you have to try to convince people that banging/breaking a broom is a HUGE societal problem in order to get people to 'support' overzealous rules and restrictions regarding human conduct. God forbid we allow any degree of actual freedom, huh? If there was freedom, what on Earth would people like you do?!
It's as sad as it is humorous that you feel so threatened by a person banging/breaking a broom in frustration - and by people merely expressing themselves honestly (and harmlessly, except to those desperately looking for a problem). Jeez... could you not better use your time to address actual problems in life?
It's quite interesting that you mention people who "feel that they are above the rules"... heh... People like you who desperately try to control others and demand that others obey and conform to exactly what YOU feel is 'proper' behaviour - you are the people who clearly feel that you are above and better than others, as you demand that everyone follow YOUR idea of 'right' and 'wrong'.
As I mentioned - other sports have evolved to allow honest expressions of anger/frustration with little or no punishment distributed. It's only a matter of time before curling follows suit, and thus becomes more real. Then you 'politically correct' control freaks can seek another non-problem to fabricate and manipulate.
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Last edited by On The Nose on 09-22-16 at 08:24AM
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| 09-22-16 08:35AM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
Nose, the discussion was about curling, the new broom rules and what occurs should you break a broom in anger or frustration during a game. In the rules it is laid out that abusive actions such as smashing a broom in frustration is not tolerated and with the four broom per game portion of the new broom rules brooms broken outside the normal scope of play will not be replaced. I did not write the rules but because they are in place, I like the vast majority of curlers understand that if I dont follow them I will be punished accordingly. You, on the otherhand, seem to think that you should be above these rules and should not have to follow them. Break brooms all you want, take your punishment like a man, and hope that they invent a singles version of curling as eventually you will be the only person willing to curl with you.
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| 09-22-16 10:32AM |
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biterbar
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 695 |
quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose
Sounds like you belong to a haughty, snobbish club.
It makes me think of what tennis clubs used to be - everyone made to wear clean white clothes, everyone's behaviour closely scrutinized to ensure obedience and conformity with what the haughty club administrators deemed 'proper' behaviour. Thankfully, tennis and tennis clubs have evolved since then to a level which respects the fact that people are different, and that some are more outwardly intense, and/or more competitive than others.
Here's hoping that your curling club will so evolve one day soon.
I belong to a "Haughty and snobbish club"? LOL, I spit my coffee half the way across the kitchen on that one!
Top 5 Reasons my club is "Haughty and Snobbish:
1) The farmers wear different shoes to the club so we don't get cows**t on the carpet.
2) We drink our Pabst Blue Ribbon from the can.
3) We drink our wine straight from the box.
4) The most popular dish at our potlucks is French cut green beans with a can of onion soup mixed in and canned dried onions spread on top.
5) The number one brand curling pants is Levi's closely followed by Puma sweats.
__________________
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire"-Winston Churchill
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| 09-22-16 10:44AM |
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youngen
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 99 |
quote:
Originally posted by On The Nose
... And anyone who buys what you just wrote (above) isn't very bright.
Firstly, true respect has nothing to do with pretty words or phony politeness. If you like to put on phony acts, it's your right. I don't.
I responded to every one of your points, omitting nothing. I took the time and made the effort to respond point by point. And because I didn't populate my response with flowers and praise, you accuse me of "lacking respect". You like accusing others of lacking respect - that was the foundation of your argument about breaking brooms.
But, while I addressed and responded to the points you made, you, in turn, refer to my points as "Blah, Blah, etc., etc.", and claim that I'm "acting like a jerk". And you accuse ME of being disrespectful?!
That's quite funny. As I mentioned - you won't be fooling any intelligent people with your post...
Of course, the real reason you're not responding is because you have no counter-points... How utterly convenient, then, to fabricate a phony reason for your lack of concrete response...
Your response (above) is little more than fancy words for "I'm running away from this discussion because I cannot come up with sensible elements to counter your points. So I'm running away, but I don't want anyone to know that I'm running away, so I'm going to fabricate a false reason why I'm not responding to your points, and I'll do so by making false accusations of you so as to remove the focus from my running away".
Based on your comments that those who break their brooms in frustration do not respect the history of the game, and that I showed no respect to your comments, it is obvious that you've no clue whatsoever what real respect actually is. You clearly enjoy accusing others of lacking respect - but you demonstrate by your actions that you are the one who truly is lacking in respect.
Nose,
I refrained from further comments because I know it is a pointless act. It is not for lack of content or ability to respond to your so-called points. It is because nothing said here will ever shut you up, and nothing said here will ever be actually thought over or considered by you. Why should I engage in a conversation with someone not actually listening? Yes, you read over the post so you can find quotes and respond back, but you have shown you do not actually acknowledge the information of others as possibly having any validity. It is like listening to a politician throw mud onto others so the mud on themselves seems normal and less dirty. If you can respectfully answer why I should provide anymore content to you, and converse over the information civilly, I will gladly do so.
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| 09-22-16 05:47PM |
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Bugman
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Harriston
Posts: 71 |
WOW - I'd never imagined that such a little question would tie up so many electrons. I had wondered what would happen if a player decided they wanted a new brush head mid-game, and pulled an animal act to break their existing broom. That certainly has been addressed in this thread.
For some historical perspective, I was playing competitively in the 70s and 80s, well before curling received anywhere near the level of media attention it does today. I was a broom banger/thrower/breaker of the first order. I believed it was my 'right,' and felt that it was cathartic when things were going south. Bang/toss/break a broom, put it in the past, and get on with the game.
I was not the only one who indulged. In fact, some of the game's most recognized curlers were know to vaporize a broom from time to time. Seeing SOME of the big shooters doing animal acts did seem to make it alright for the rest of us to do so. In fact, a few teams used this sort of behavior as a form of intimidation. No names, but I played on one of them.
By the mid-1990s, the Ontario Curling Association was scheduling most Mens and Ladies Provincial Finals in the same venue - a revolutionary approach at the time. It was great to have the gals around, but I was taken aback when discovering that Ladies teams actually would be on the ice during our games. I did not like that at all, feeling that the presence of the fairer sex was going to compromise our burly 'Men's game.'
In one of these games, my skipper called me for a shot that I did not feel was our best option. Overruled on the call, I threw a total dog and we paid the price. Ladies or no, this brought on a full-bore overhand smash. As an aside, I had (and still use) the absolute loudest broom ever created for this sort of outburst. It's almost all steel, and sounds like a close-range rifle shot on impact.
Of course, I got looks of disgust from virtually every sheet. Who cares? This is a provincial final, and I'm a rough and tough Mens player. After the game, several of the Ladies came over to discuss my deportment. Two of them, Anne Dunn and Gloria Campbell, multi-time Provincial, Canadian and World Champions, politely told me that nothing like that was ever to happen again when they were on the ice.
What could I say? I certainly couldn't tell them that they did not understand the nature of competitive curling! I'd never been to a Canadian Championship. Relative to them, I was a small-time player. I assured them that it would not occur again.
That was the moment when the light went on for me. The game was not being played like it was in the 1970s. It was not my 'right' to disrupt an entire curling club because I was pissed with my performance.
I'd like to say that it's never happened again, but witnesses at the Vernon Curling Club could confirm that perfection is only intended for the gods. That said, I know there is no justification for an adult to act like that in any sort of public venue - for any reason.
There was a time when you could smoke on the ice during a game. Some were pissed when Clubs changed that rule. The game evolves. The player who does not can rightfully be called a dinosaur - among other things.
Jim Corrigan
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