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07-18-16 06:12PM |
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IMWright
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 206 |
Russian Doping Scandal....
Innnnnnteresting...
Information in the newly released Independent Person Report regarding Russian doping at athletic events...
The chart on page 41 of the report indicates 2 instances of "disappearing positive test results by sport Russian athletes" in the sport of Curling...
Access to the report via NPR...
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetorc...ing-agency-says
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07-19-16 03:02PM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
This was a common practice for many associations, Many big name countries buried positive tests in the name of medal quests.
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07-20-16 09:49AM |
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curlky
Drawmaster
Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 559 |
quote: Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
This was a common practice for many associations, Many big name countries buried positive tests in the name of medal quests.
You have any proof of that? I'm not trynig ot call you out, but that is a big accusation, and I would like to be able to read more about it.
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07-20-16 11:15AM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
It was common for associations to tell athlete's well in advance what their testing dates were so that they could time their cycles accordingly.
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07-20-16 11:21AM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
Not medal related, but close, curlky...check out the lance armstrong relationship with the cycling governing body.
His team knew what the test cycles would be. At least one of his questionable samples was written off after an after the fact "therapeutic exemption" was found.
Basically...Drug testing has been a joke up until quite recently.
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07-20-16 12:18PM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
The Book "Wheelmen" covers a lot of that. Medals in a sport directly affect the amount of funding they get from their national sports body. Associations would quite often turn a blind eye to positive tests to garner better results and more funding.
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07-20-16 02:55PM |
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340 |
Just another sad example of how incredibly corrupt our world has become.
No one is actually shocked by any of this, are they? The temptation and pressure to cheat is on all athletes in all countries. And before we Canadians get all Dick-Pound-holier-than-thou lets take a minute to recall Mr. Ben Johnson.
We curlers should remember that the 5th player for Team Jacobs tested positive for banned substances and one of their trainers was just recently arrested and charged with trafficking in steroids (not sure if convicted or gone to trial yet).
Governments now use the Olympics and World sports to wage war against other countries-they flaunt medals as their sign of superiority over nations rather than stage military invasions.
Athletes stand to make millions of dollars from federal and private sources by producing medal performances, then reap the fame and attention from same.
Those in charge of sport are also subject to this as well. Bribery in the billions is spent to secure Olympic or World event sites. Or just to get the rights to have equipment licensed or receive 'official' supplier status.
And lets not even discuss the corrupt grand-daddy of them all; FIFA. They make the rest of us look like pikers.
Like a vicious circle it just goes on and on and on.
It all boils down to a single human vice: Greed at all levels. Government, sporting bodies, the media and the athlete.
The only way this gets reduced (because we probably can't stop it entirely) is if this cheating is considered what it truly is: fraud, and is treated as such by making it what it should be; a criminal offense at all levels.
Sound too much? well, would Lance Armstrong have blood doped if he knew the penalty was a jail term and a criminal record for the rest of his life? Maybe, maybe not. But you can be damn sure he would have paused for thought.
As it stands now, you can take away his records and fine him. But he-like so many others-have salted away so much money that in the end he doesn't care what you or I think. People like him, at all levels, always win as long as our system doesn't change.
__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson
Last edited by jamcan on 07-20-16 at 03:09PM
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07-21-16 04:18PM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
If anybody believes that all CDN athletes are squeaky clean, you have rose coloured glasses on,
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07-22-16 11:31AM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
quote: Originally posted by decade
If anybody believes that all CDN athletes are squeaky clean, you have rose coloured glasses on,
Agreed...one only has to look at how muscular some of the male curlers have gotten...it isn't all work in the gym.
__________________
Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.
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07-22-16 05:44PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
well, there have been 3 cases of curlers caught doping and punished for doing so relatively recently in a timeline. a member of andrea schopp's team, caleb flaxey and i cant remember the 3rd.
but , much like its naive to say that there isnt doping in tennis it's naive to think there isnt in curling
but i feel like i dont want to spend to much time talking about it.
I dont want to make any acusations but i will just ask if anyone here thinks sidorova and her team took part in this doping program.
on a larger scale i feel for all the russian athletes that are probably gonna be banned from the olympics who are clean. svetlana kuznetsova for example..i think its pretty damn obvious she hasnt been doping but she might not get to play anyway
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07-22-16 06:12PM |
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Phil_D
Drawmaster
Registered: May 2014
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 629 |
quote: Originally posted by misty1
well, there have been 3 cases of curlers caught doping and punished for doing so relatively recently in a timeline. a member of andrea schopp's team, caleb flaxey and i cant remember the 3rd.
but , much like its naive to say that there isnt doping in tennis it's naive to think there isnt in curling
but i feel like i dont want to spend to much time talking about it.
I dont want to make any acusations but i will just ask if anyone here thinks sidorova and her team took part in this doping program.
on a larger scale i feel for all the russian athletes that are probably gonna be banned from the olympics who are clean. svetlana kuznetsova for example..i think its pretty damn obvious she hasnt been doping but she might not get to play anyway
I don't think so. She's written some opinion pieces on the issue recently, including saying that individual athletes should be held responsible for violations (as opposed to federations or countries as a whole).
That's neither here nor there though, and I'm not going to get into whether the punishments are fair or not. My point is considering that individual athletes were named by name in the report, I doubt she'd be saying that if she or one of her teammates were on that list.
Source: http://rusplt.ru/our-people/authors/author_2.html
__________________
Recreational curler & resident armchair curler at Windy City Curling Club.
Co-host of the NerdCurl podcast & occasional blogger.
http://www.nerdcurl.com
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07-22-16 06:25PM |
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Phil_D
Drawmaster
Registered: May 2014
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 629 |
quote: Originally posted by curlerbroad
Agreed...one only has to look at how muscular some of the male curlers have gotten...it isn't all work in the gym.
I agree with the sentiment that it's naive to think that all athletes are clean, but I don't think it's fair to make such assumptions regarding their physiques.
For one, yeah some of the guys are pretty jacked, but I haven't seen a single physique that isn't attainable through strict diet and exercise. It's not there are guys looking like Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler (not the QB) out there.
For another, you can be juiced and not even look like it. Not everyone gets ripped and shredded.
Again, I get what you're saying, I just don't think it's fair to imply that you can't get cut up and ripped without doping. I'm not saying that people are or aren't necessarily, just that it can be done without.
__________________
Recreational curler & resident armchair curler at Windy City Curling Club.
Co-host of the NerdCurl podcast & occasional blogger.
http://www.nerdcurl.com
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07-23-16 04:30AM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
"well, there have been 3 cases of curlers caught doping and punished for doing so relatively recently in a timeline. a member of andrea schopp's team, caleb flaxey and i cant remember the 3rd"
Don't remember Caleb Flaxey testing positive. You might be thinking of Matt Dumontelle.
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07-23-16 07:55AM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
quote: Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
"well, there have been 3 cases of curlers caught doping and punished for doing so relatively recently in a timeline. a member of andrea schopp's team, caleb flaxey and i cant remember the 3rd"
Don't remember Caleb Flaxey testing positive. You might be thinking of Matt Dumontelle.
yes. thank you for the correction
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07-24-16 11:02AM |
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Jimbobogie
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 538 |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jimbobogie
[B]https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...cs.duncanmackay
Curling is in a rather delicate position, IMHO. I don't think that it can afford ANY problems like this due to its relative "newness". There are many who think that it doesn't belong now...just like golf.
As for our friend Ben-the only mistake he made was to run for Canada. See the link above.
American track athletes have the ultimate drug "suppressants"-they're taken in rotation and are called "ABC", "NBC", "CBS" and elements of "ESPN" AND "FOXSPORTS".
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Jim
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07-24-16 01:27PM |
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Jimbobogie
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 538 |
Fresca-we're living in a world in which Big Dollar Game$ have long-since become irrelevant (especially now that all of the planet's "First-World" countries a beyond bankrupt (not to mention Brazil))-I'll take your side.
Question-if there were no Olympics (summer or winter) how many of you would really care?
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Jim
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07-25-16 08:46AM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
quote: Originally posted by Jimbobogie
Fresca-we're living in a world in which Big Dollar Game$ have long-since become irrelevant (especially now that all of the planet's "First-World" countries a beyond bankrupt (not to mention Brazil))-I'll take your side.
Question-if there were no Olympics (summer or winter) how many of you would really care?
I think a lot of people would still care. I think that most people want to believe sport is clean even if they know better. but we'd like to believe and think that the results in sports are pure. and it'd be nice if that was the case
young kids look at these athletes as roll models and want to be like them. it sucks that you'd come to find out your hero was basically cheating through their career
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07-25-16 08:59AM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
quote: Originally posted by Jimbobogie
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jimbobogie
There are many who think that it doesn't belong now...just like golf.
Not so much, actually...
Okay...maybe some of the silly commentators and late night hosts...but...courtesy of the fact that curling is the single biggest ratings draw in the US other than Women's Figure skating...our place in the five ring circus is secure, at least unless and until both American teams forget how to qualify one year...
And honestly, probably even then...the US is more than willing to adopt Canada when there isn't a US medal contender...we're flexible that way.
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07-25-16 12:39PM |
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Jimbobogie
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 538 |
Misty and Al-interesting comments...I will take them under advisement and perhaps come up with one of my "Bombastic" comments a little later (as I love to do)...or maybe not...
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Jim
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07-26-16 09:00AM |
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Observer
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2016
Location: River Falls, WI, USA
Posts: 445 |
quote: Originally posted by AlanMacNeill
Not so much, actually...
Okay...maybe some of the silly commentators and late night hosts...but...courtesy of the fact that curling is the single biggest ratings draw in the US other than Women's Figure skating...our place in the five ring circus is secure, at least unless and until both American teams forget how to qualify one year...
???? Single biggest ratings draw? I want to see the raw data on that claim. It hardly ever even gets on the main NBC channel, so how can it be a huge ratings draw?
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07-26-16 09:25AM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
It may not be on the main channel, however, it dominated airtime on MSNBC, which showed nothing other than curling and hockey (and by "hockey" I mean "games not featuring Team USA")
and the ratings were the highest for any channels other than the "main" broadcast (which, of course, gets the most eyeballs, because it's the main broadcast)...even with the less than stellar performances of the US teams.
There was a post put up back in 2014 with sport by sport breakdowns...I can't find it today (dammit...) but that was the takeaway...basically, aside from ice skating central (and USA hockey games), curling was the bomb, crushing everything else before it.
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07-26-16 11:23AM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
Curling and Hockey are the two most coveted tickets at the Olympics
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07-26-16 12:52PM |
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Observer
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2016
Location: River Falls, WI, USA
Posts: 445 |
quote: Originally posted by AlanMacNeill
It may not be on the main channel, however, it dominated airtime on MSNBC, which showed nothing other than curling and hockey (and by "hockey" I mean "games not featuring Team USA")
and the ratings were the highest for any channels other than the "main" broadcast (which, of course, gets the most eyeballs, because it's the main broadcast)...even with the less than stellar performances of the US teams.
There was a post put up back in 2014 with sport by sport breakdowns...I can't find it today (dammit...) but that was the takeaway...basically, aside from ice skating central (and USA hockey games), curling was the bomb, crushing everything else before it.
As I recall, the curling was mostly carried live as it happened, which given the time difference from Sochi meant early in the morning here. I'm not surprised if live Olympic coverage of _any_ sport was winning against anything else on the other channels during the morning hours. If it was the blockbuster hit you made it sound like, however, it'd get some primetime rebroadcast on main NBC, which it didn't.
(Maybe if the US teams hadn't been losing so badly, giving up an Olympic-record score-against of 7 in one end, they might've got a little NBC time)
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07-27-16 12:45AM |
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Grat
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 107 |
quote: Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
Curling and Hockey are the two most coveted tickets at the Olympics
Curling may have been in Vancouver, but in Sochi it was figure skating and short track.
It's TV popularity is real, and it has the benefit of being one of the only sports that runs almost every day of the games.
One problem with putting it in a primetime NBC slot is that it completely dominates 3 hours of airtime that can be filled with a mix of other events with bigger name athletes.
Last edited by Grat on 07-27-16 at 12:48AM
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08-23-16 03:31AM |
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Alice
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 324 |
Now the dust has settled a bit from Rio, I've been thinking what if any lessons learned will there be for NBC, IOC and WCF about drug cheating and cheating of all kinds in Olympic sports.
Curling's snowplowing and corner sweeeping. No fabric changes by WCF will fix those technique problems. And with One Fabric, some curling front end desperados will be incentivized to experiment with drugs for an edge with corner sweeping.
A nice surprise to see entire stadiums of fans boo-ing known drug cheats in swimming and track & field, but so sad to hear IOC and sport federation leaders still saying such cheaters "must" be allowed to play if they served their suspensions. So loved the "anti-doping" farce of the IOC bannng all Russians... then wimping out and saying each sport federation could decide who goes to Rio.
With that laissez faire attitude we can be assured at least a dozen Rio medalists will be found to be drug cheats as testing advances happen over the next ten years, 10 being the number of years samples are now kept. But will anyone care? Does anyone remember the drug cheat medalists caught from the London Games just 4 years ago?* Or the ones newly caught from Beijing with newly testable designer drugs? NBC certainly didn't dwell on that tarnish to their "product".
NBC's ratings were down.. Stands often had lots of spare seats. If NBC loses more money, IOC might have to "improve its product" to attract more viewers and sponsors but it might wait until its long NBC contract is up for renewal.
I wish WCF would vote before the Korean Games to say any curlers (and coaches!) caught cheating with drugs once are out for life but our sport's culture has joined the Olympic "Movement" and too many WCF leaders sold their soul to that Company Store long ago. But... if the stadium audiences continue to boo cheats there is hope for a positive change.
*6
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dop...e_Olympic_Games
Last edited by Alice on 08-23-16 at 02:57PM
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