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quote:

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Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


Johnny Mo/Cotter - still getting their smoke signals in order, Morris has found lightning in a bottle with the 39 yr old last brick tosser Mr. Cotter.

Three of the greatest Skip/3rd combinations in Canadian curling history - going down to a series of historical
showdowns!

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Stoughton and Nedohin did pretty good at the skins game this past year, I think you would have to rate them as the greatest backend duo in history too?

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Brad and Kevin???? Some skips have successfully merged glen/ wayne, koe/ Simmons, cotter/Morris, however I think Brads ego is much too big for such an arrangement with Martin who would be top dog.

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Bslsdon is brutal. That back swing belongs in a museum.

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Hey Decade, When the camera pans the players in the hack at the Briar can you wave at it so we can watch your delivery please? Thx

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quote:

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Originally posted by Manitoba Legend

Three of the greatest Skip/3rd combinations in Canadian curling history - going down to a series of historical
showdowns!

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Does anyone know the population of Kamloops. Looks like 200 people watching the afternoon draw on a Thursday afternoon. Unbelievable. There were 10 times that many in Halifax for a Monday morning draw. What's up?

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Greg has another game where he had his chances to win it, down to 4-5 has to win out and have a complete collapse by Stevie.

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Originally posted by ObsessiveCurler
Greg has another game where he had his chances to win it, down to 4-5 has to win out and have a complete collapse by Stevie.

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Does Alberta's final game really affect their first-place finish? According to their coach, their DSC record already assured them of a spot in the 1-2 regardless of draw 16 results (or the outcome of tomorrow's game vs. Quebec). Since a 9-2 record would put them in a split with Manitoba and BC, they'd be given first-place by virtue of having the best LSD numbers. Or do I misunderstand that?

Also, if Quebec and Saskatchewan do lose and the four-way cluster-tie occurs -- can anyone explain how that tie-breaker would be arranged? (It would seem New Brunswick and Newfoundland would have a better head-to-head record in the group over Quebec and Sasky.)

If it turns out an Alberta win isn't as consequential for hammer and choice of stones in the 1-2 game as is the current belief, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't tell Twitter right away...

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I believe in a 4-way cluster-tie, they play a mini-single-knockout for the last spot. Last happened in 2005, when Colleen Jones's STOH win streak came to an end.

Last edited by doubletakeout on 03-07-14 at 03:22AM

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Muirhead didn't throw that game.

Koe wont throw this game.

As I've mentioned before I spent five years playing in the Quebec provincial championships for badminton.

In badminton at the world level there is a tradition of throwing games on purpose. It is done with everyone's tacit knowledge and it is done for the following reason. If you win you face your country mates in the semi-final. If you lose then they play in one semi and you play in the other. As I said this is a well known practice and no one has a problem with it because, well, it makes perfect sense. This gives the chance for both teams to get a gold or silver. Whereas if they play in the semi the best they can do is gold and bronze. It also has honour in it if you look at the perspective that it also risks not having a team in the final.

This tradition blew up tempest tea pot style at the last summer Olympics when the crowd, not knowing the the sport, booed wildly when they recognized what was going on. Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion and judgements about this tradition. But enough about badminton.

In soccer we have seen more than one 0-0 tie that allows both teams to go through in the various 'Cups'. There is a great deal of huffing and puffing by the teams negatively affected by this tactic. And much talk by commentators about the need to "do something" about this "dishonourable" blah-blah-blah. Short of shooting the offenders what can possibly be done?

Curling is VERY MUCH of the 'on the other hand' when it comes to these kinds of tactics.

Just recently at the Trials Koe went 0-5 to start. He was done. Playing out the string he killed both Stoughton and Howard's chances. In the Howard game making a draw to the pin on last rock to do so. Glenn shook his hand said nice shot and expected nothing else or less.

In curling the tradition of going out to win every game regardless of the standings is long standing. Right up there with shaking hands at the beginning and the end of every game and the ubiquitous "good curling" wish to your opponents. Right up there with sincere appreciation when they make a great shot. Heck when they make nothing but great shots and beat the crap out of you.

What curling DOES NOT accept is anyone who would throw a game to benefit themselves. Not even if it was Koe v Koe or Howard v Howard. And one of them was out of the playoffs and the other needed to win to be in the playoffs. Not even then.

I remember very clearly the reputation Kevin Martin earned for himself when he brought out the corn brooms. It took him ten years at least to rehabilitate his reputation after that stunt. And even still there are definitely old Scots and old Canadians who will never change their minds.

Honour and fair play is taken very seriously in curling.99.99% of all players would rather lose than risk their reputation. Would rather be known as a "straight-shooter" than any other single achievement. Up to and including winning the GD Brier.

The idea that they would risk that rep for the miniscule and entirely questionable gain of who you are playing in the playoffs is risible.

And that is as nicely as I can put this.

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Not so sure about Muirhead...her record against the Canadians was pretty strong and she missed an easy shot.

Throwing games...while there are gentlemen and ladies in Curling who would never do it, with the stakes getting higher in curling and a newer generation with different standards than the oldtimers - I wouldn't be so sure about manipulation to get in the right position at a Brier or Scotties.

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Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
If Koe is absolutely assured of 1st in page then indeed he's in the "Muirhead" spot.

[...]

If he wins he gets last rock and Stoughton in the 1-2 game
If he loses he gets last rock and Morris in the 1-2 game.

[...]

And in a strange way Stoughton's team might not mind. They're hot as flapjacks off the grill right now and they would get one advantage - last rock in the 3-4 game. Jeff lost the 3 way tie for 1st at 9-2 cuz of his putrid record in the draw to the buttons which determine order.

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Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
If Koe is absolutely assured of 1st in page then indeed he's in the "Muirhead" spot.

Remember, Muirhead at the Olympics? She had a choice of who to play in the Page. Flip her last shot a bit out and she gets Jennifer Jones. Make it and she gets the Swedes. She chose Jones. Didn't work out so well for the Princess, did it?

Now Koe has virtually the same decision. Mind you, Eve Muirhead only had an end to make her decisions. Koe has had 12 hours and now this a.m.'s game with Menard (Que)

If he allows his team a run-thru and a low percentage performance, he allows Menard to get in at 7-4 and eliminates a pack of hungry 6-5 teams.

If he wins he gets last rock and Stoughton in the 1-2 game
If he loses he gets last rock and Morris in the 1-2 game.

Frankly, I'd pick Morris and let Stoughton have to get thru Menard to work himself into the semi-final.

Koe has been the top team overall for the week so a final round loss would be shocking but not surprising given whats at stake.

Stoughton has been the best team in Kamloops the last 5 games with Jeff starting to shoot the lights out. Koe might be in a spot where losing gives him a slight advantage.

And in a strange way Stoughton's team might not mind. They're hot as flapjacks off the grill right now and they would get one advantage - last rock in the 3-4 game. Jeff lost the 3 way tie for 1st at 9-2 cuz of his putrid record in the draw to the buttons which determine order.

btw - how do you throw a game when a million are watching. Its not easy but a little extra ice here, a bit of tight ice there, a sail-thru the rings in a critical spot, etc. Not hard to go from 90% curling to 80%. Most won't notice. I will!

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Can the essence of the question not get lost in a bunch of people debating semantics of "throwing" a game?

Is Kevin Koe now locked into first place overall, regardless of the outcome of this morning's game?

At any rate, it'll be Mudryk calling the game, so we won't get to chuckle each time Vic mumbles something about not knowing what the positions will be.

And one more thing: Why is this kind of info under CCA lock and key anyway? Are we not sophisticated enough to consume DSC numbers? If you're looking to push a conspiracy theory, shut up about fixed game outcomes and ask why you're not allowed to see advanced stats.

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I think if Koe loses this morning against Quebec then the big three will all be at 9-2, with BC having beat Alberta, Alberta beating Manitoba and Manitoba beating BC. Then I think it comes down to the Skill Based scores. Best if Alberta wins, Manitoba second and BC loses to whomever wins the tiebreaker/tiebreakers and breaks the crowd and the CCA's heart.

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quote:

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From curling.ca news
�It�s kind of interesting, Kevin (Koe) can actually pick who he wants to play,� said Manitoba skip Jeff Stoughton. �If he loses he plays B.C., if he wins he plays us. But if he wins he gets hammer and colour of rocks and that�s pretty important so I�m sure he�ll be out to win.�

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If Koe loses, he will get hammer tonight but not choice of stones. I would think he wants both.

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Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


Interesting. Is there a source/link for this rule?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


Interesting. Is there a source/link for this rule?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Unregistered


No, I don't have a source or link. You will have to trust me. But essentially, Koe needs to have a better record than his opponent to get both. If they have the same record, he gets a choice and would take last rock.

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Originally posted by StonePunter


Ok, take back what I said. I'd pay more than $6 to see this written out in any kind of rules language that would get approval from CCA's lawyers.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Unregistered

If it ends up a 3 way tie for forst has it been detemined the LSD ranking is Koe, Stout,Morris?
Koe has a game left to play yet.

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Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
I remember in the 90's Vic Peters of Manitoba got caught up in the same 3-way tie for 1st scenario.

He somehow got screwed out of first or second and wasn't able to defend his Brier title.

Never forget seeing the Manitoba Curling Assoc. rep on the CCA, Z Saper helping to screw his own boy out of a higher seeding.

In those days they didn't have the rules written out clearly like they do today.

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