Registered: Sep 2002
Location: US - CT
Posts: 1431

Released a little while ago. Here is the link
http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Curling/...oposal-outlined

The future has arrived boys and girls, we are selecting teams. If you form your own team "funding may potentially be available" but no promises.

As the kids say, Whatev....

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JH
Go Phils, got my WS bet on you

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...sounds a little "socialist" doncha think?

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Jim

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On the Junior side, does this mean there will be 11 teams?

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The unintended consequence of forming teams selected by HPP coaches (for which selection criteria are not yet developed or released) is to discourage emerging curlers from competing at the highest level--if you think the deck is stacked against you, maybe curling is a bad choice for you.

The primary assumption in establishing this policy is that it is possible to identify the "best" curlers in the absence of competition. The reality is that personal and geographic factors may dominate the eventual selection process rather than talent--which is something that self-formed teams already figure out.

The advantage of hand-picking teams is that theoretically you can assemble the best talent.

The advantage of picking teams through competition (a.k.a. playdowns and nationals) is that diversity of talent is encouraged.

The hand-picking process assumes that lack of talent is the principal problem with our current performance at the world level.

The competition process is more chaotic, and assumes that competition will draw out the most talented teams.

It is not clear that either process is better than the other for producing competitive teams, but we are about to learn something about whether or not the hand-picking process changes anything.

Personally, I think the path forward is through better coaching and competition, however you pick the teams. So maybe we're not yet digging where there's taters.

I wish the USCA the best, and hope that aspiring young curlers are not too discouraged about not being among the hand-picked. Maybe that will be a little extra motivation...

Cheers.

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Registered: Sep 2002
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Juniors will still be ten, they eliminated one team already. At-large does not get a spot (I think). I think it also paves the way for a non-regional playdown for JRs. Something that has been brewing for a couple of years. They want to get the "best teams" to the Nationals and Worlds. Having teams from "weaker" regions does not help, so have some type of national qualifer(s) to get better teams.

JH
"they" are the reason I wear the tin foil hat

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Speaking only to Juniors.... why bother to have a Junior Nationals event..... at anytime the HP team/coaches could throw out the results and select the team they choose to move onto Worlds- They moved one step closer to that this year when they replaced a player from the winning team with a player that wasn't even in their HP program....

This new plan is incredibly discouraging to all players. Not sure this is the answer for future results but this is not the right direction to go. They are making the pool of athletes to choose from smaller not bigger.

Sad day for USA Junior Curling.....

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I think clubs around the country need to demand that their $400k+ dues money each year be utilized solely for grassroots development or split off from the USCA. (I'd use more accurate numbers but the USCA website doesn't have 12-13's statement posted. So 11-12 will have to do)

If the HPP and USCA want to use the USOC money to play God and put together their own teams, that's fine. Let them do it without club support. If it's all about keeping in the USOC's graces and making sure that the U.S. keeps their berth at Worlds/the Olympics, creating a separate entity would give them the freedom to Fire, Aim, Ready as many initiatives as they please.

We've already identified that the USA's performance at the olympics hasn't affected the boom in popularity every 4 years. And the value for broadcasting curling has been discovered by media so I don't imagine the coverage to decrease even if the US wasn't there. That's no longer an excuse.

In fact, this would be ADVANTAGEOUS for the HPP/USCA in regard to player development. Clubs would have more money to invest in their curlers, culture, and overall health so more talent would be able to be scouted.

OR

Clear house and put people in place that actually know how to run an organization and make strategic decisions that aren't asinine. See By-Laws thread to follow along on that front:

http://www.curlingzone.com/showthre...adid=10490&tp=0

It's sad that I'm upset enough to even post something like this. Sad day for USA curling in general.

-GM

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Registered: Feb 2013
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One of the reasons given for the HP Plan is to maintain a pipeline for emerging talent. I'm not sure how this happens when most if not all resources are directed at the HP-selected teams. How does this maintain/encourage emerging talent?

And why should any dollars from member club dues be directed to HP where only a very few curlers have access to those dollars?

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Registered: Mar 2005
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Good, all the mystery players out there will finally get their chance to save US curling! I just knew the right athletes we not getting to the International events.


Actually I might be OK with the plan if they fired all the current people involved with the HPP and decision makers.

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A very slippery slope. Hope it works out, but I'm not optimistic where this will lead.

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DB
H-B w/ A
Grand Forks, ND USA

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Question: What is the possibility that members of any of the current competitive teams in mens, womens, and juniors will "try out" for the national team and break away from their current teams? Or will the proposed tryouts be populated by currently "homeless" players?

If the USCA simply designates one of the existing competitive teams in a category as their "HP team" how is that significantly different from what is happening now?

I'm just trying to figure out how the all-star team selection process is really going to work.

And an observation: the new HP document confuses "performance" and "outcome" goals. The stated "performance goals" are winning various events or medaling at worlds. These are "outcomes", which players and coaches cannot control. "Performance" goals focus on how well you execute, not whether you win or lose--performance goals must be specific, observable, and measurable so that progress can be assessed. At least that's my understanding of the very basics of coaching. Good "performance" leads to better "outcomes." Performance areas include shooting, brushing, team communication, shot selection, etc. and all of these have various ways of objectively measuring progress. Good coaches of course know all of this. So if the HP program fails to produce a team that wins Nationals or fails to medal at worlds is the program a failure? If a HP team wins Nationals is the program a success?

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I am not sure that there are even going to be "tryouts" for the men or women. The juniors is a different story but for the men and women the "best" players are pretty well known by any one who follows US curling.

I suspect that the HPP will pretty much pick teams. Could you image Pete without Polo or Rojeski? So maybe they will say to a team drop this player and add this other one but basically it will be the existing teams. Interestingly the HPP also gets to pick the position so has the power to bench a player and bring in a 5th (can you say Brewster?)

In recent years the HPP has had a lousy record of funding teams before they win Nationals. With both Heater and Brady not being a apart of the HPP before they won. This is also true to a lesser extent for Shuster. Hopefully this will motivate some non selected teams to kick some HPP A$$.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by RockDoc
Question: What is the possibility that members of any of the current competitive teams in mens, womens, and juniors will "try out" for the national team and break away from their current teams?

NONE

Or will the proposed tryouts be populated by currently "homeless" players?

Most likely


I'm just trying to figure out how the all-star team selection process is really going to work.

It is a secret.


So if the HP program fails to produce a team that wins Nationals or fails to medal at worlds is the program a failure?

YES

If a HP team wins Nationals is the program a success?

NO, they should be expected to win.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Third Nerd
for the men and women the "best" players are pretty well known by any one who follows US curling.

I suspect that the HPP will pretty much pick teams.

---

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I am astounded by the complete and utter dismantling of competitive curling in the USA. Get real folks a few select people will benefit the rest need to quit curling competitively and take up other activities. Its who the HPP staff favors and where you live and how you look that will make the difference. Lets use the wonderful curling zone shooting percentages from this years nationals which are absolutely and totally inaccurate to rank players. The whole thing is a terrible idea. YOU NEED TO WIN THE CHAMPIOSHIP GAME TO REPRESENT THE USCA. Ask Spatola how that feels. LETS give a couple of teams thousands of dollars to rack up OOM points in multiple spiels and then tell the other teams trying on their own that they haven't earned enough points to win the next nationals. STOP THIS NONSENSE NOW PLEASE !!!!

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Who will get picked? Let the predictions begin!!

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A Modest Proposal

For Assuring the Playing of the Star Spangled Banner in South Korea
For the Land of the Free
And the Home of the Brave as a Benefit to the Public
_
It is a melancholy object to those who curl in the country, when they see the Canadian Cashspiels, the Elite Clinics, IOC Colorado Buildings, Jimmy Fallon Show, and Team USA itself crowded with beggars of the Moste Evile and Fowl Social Curlers followed by three, four, or six broomstackers all in rags and importuning every High Performance coach for an alms. These curlers instead of being able to work for their honest livelihood, are forced to employ all their time in strolling to beg sustenance for their helpless friends who as they grow up either turn thieves for want of work, or leave their dear native country to fight for the Pretender in Spain, or sell themselves to the Barbadoes.....

(Johnathon Swift fans... you get the idea...)

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Third Nerd


I suspect that the HPP will pretty much pick teams. Could you image Pete without Polo or Rojeski? So maybe they will say to a team drop this player and add this other one but basically it will be the existing teams. Interestingly the HPP also gets to pick the position so has the power to bench a player and bring in a 5th (can you say Brewster?)

---

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JL

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The way that I read the document, that is exactly what they are telling people. If you want the HPP funding then the HPP is in control of the team. They choose who is on the A and B team and also which position they play. Of course you could always refuse the money.

My guess for the teams

A team
P. Fenson
S. Rojeski
J. Polo
...insert good sweeping lead here

B team
H. McCormick
C. Brown
C. Plys
..again insert lead here

Of course that leaves a lot of good players on the sidelines like Shuster, Clark, George etc.

TN

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quote:

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Originally posted by curlny


I was wondering what the impact would be on existing teams. Are they telling Pete Fenson his new lead is Gemmell? Telling Heater that Stopera is back and Plys is out? Cutting funding for teams that choose to stay together?

---

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It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. After "searching the world over" for the best players in the U.S., I would not be in the least bit surprised if the "A teams" are basically chosen from among the teams we have now, +/- one player maybe.

It will also be interesting to see how much control current teams are willing to give up to get USCA funding and their excellent coaching.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by RockDoc
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. After "searching the world over" for the best players in the U.S., I would not be in the least bit surprised if the "A teams" are basically chosen from among the teams we have now, +/- one player maybe.

It will also be interesting to see how much control current teams are willing to give up to get USCA funding and their excellent coaching.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Third Nerd
The way that I read the document, that is exactly what they are telling people. If you want the HPP funding then the HPP is in control of the team. They choose who is on the A and B team and also which position they play. Of course you could always refuse the money.

My guess for the teams

A team
P. Fenson
S. Rojeski
J. Polo
...insert good sweeping lead here

B team
H. McCormick
C. Brown
C. Plys
..again insert lead here

Of course that leaves a lot of good players on the sidelines like Shuster, Clark, George etc.

TN

---

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Michigan, United States
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I agree with those that believe this is the wrong direction for the HPP. Some of the reasons have been articulated already, but I will try to point out a few others when I get a chance.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
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I struggle to remain openminded.

I do need help on one matter:

So does all of this now mean that Team Spatola won Nationals...but can't go to Worlds...AND now is not promised any funding for next year? That might be actionable.

Ben Tucker

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