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| 04-03-14 02:13PM |
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JB42
Drawmaster
Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 621 |
Residency for Team Canada?
If you are Team Canada do your players not simply need to be a resident of Canada to qualify?
I can understand the you gotta have three of four (or five?) rule. But once they become Team Canada why would you need to be from the same province as the qualifying team?
Otherwise isn't it just Alberta 1 and Alberta 2?
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| 04-03-14 02:50PM |
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CurlingRH
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2014
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Posts: 27 |
quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
Trolling? Not even close.
Curl BC is partially at fault. However, its obvious now that Morris knowingly and purposely submitted a false exemption form. I have little doubt his teammates and coach also knew as well.
Yes, curl BC dropped the ball. But their negligence doesn't justify or exonerate Morris or his team for, or from their actions.
There is clearly stated penalty for this. It should be applied.
It's been my experience that governing bodies like Curl BC are not proactive . As a rule, they don't go looking for problems, and will only address an issue like this if they receive a formal complaint in accordance with their published policies and procedures. In a lot of cases, those procedures and policies will stipulate who can (and cannot) submit a complaint. That might be limited to the loser in the BC final. There may also be a "statute of limitations" requiring submission within a specified time from the alleged infraction.
Curl BC has the appropriate exemption forms on file, so all butts are covered. This isn't the board of Halliburton, they're a bunch of volunteers who will legitimately tell you they have neither the resources nor the mandate to validate the accuracy of documents submitted by their members.
I agree that the BC residency appears to have been a sham, and it is offensive to see the rules mangled without consequence. However, I fear the time has passed to address this, and we will have to seek solace in knowing that Morris' residency will undoubtedly be subjected to more intense scrutiny when he returns from his sabbatical, and that his public image has been significantly damaged (at least amongst non-cougars). Woefully inadequate, but that's how the world turns.
It's also been my experience that what goes around, comes around and karma is a b&tch, so stay positive. The future always holds hope.
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| 04-03-14 03:15PM |
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Gerry
CZ Founder
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002 |
quote:
Originally posted by CurlingRH
It's been my experience that governing bodies like Curl BC are not proactive . As a rule, they don't go looking for problems, and will only address an issue like this if they receive a formal complaint in accordance with their published policies and procedures. In a lot of cases, those procedures and policies will stipulate who can (and cannot) submit a complaint. That might be limited to the loser in the BC final. There may also be a "statute of limitations" requiring submission within a specified time from the alleged infraction.
OR maybe CurlBC was being proactive and saw the opportunity to avoid relegation. Morris wanted to play with Cotter and represented a great opportunity to win enough games to not get relegated.
British Columbia, Nova Scotia and PEI were all tied with 5 wins over the previous 2 years, going into this year's Brier and another poor performance would have seen BC on the outside looking in.
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| 04-03-14 03:24PM |
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CurlingRH
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2014
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Posts: 27 |
quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
OR maybe CurlBC was being proactive and saw the opportunity to avoid relegation. Morris wanted to play with Cotter and represented a great opportunity to win enough games to not get relegated.
British Columbia, Nova Scotia and PEI were all tied with 5 wins over the previous 2 years, going into this year's Brier and another poor performance would have seen BC on the outside looking in.
Technically, being pro-active would entail some tangible action by Curl BC, like telling Cotter to go get Morris. While that seems unlikely, your point is well taken and I'm sure the board is not unhappy with how things turned out.
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| 04-03-14 04:27PM |
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Unregistered
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RH-you can't, no matter how attractive it seems, allow this to just blow over. Do police stop pursuing criminals just because they were able to rob the bank before they got there?
If something isn't done, this will happen again and again.
Gerry's Curl BC conspiracy theory will thrill folks who like that stuff. But if they did participate willingly it was after they received the request for exemption. As dull-witted as Braley is, he wouldn't pull a stunt like Gerry suggested. He'd never get a job in his field again.
This started with the team and its coach. In the end, if anyone pays, it will be them.
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| 04-03-14 07:42PM |
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CurlingRH
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 27 |
quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
RH-you can't, no matter how attractive it seems, allow this to just blow over. Do police stop pursuing criminals just because they were able to rob the bank before they got there?
If something isn't done, this will happen again and again.
Gerry's Curl BC conspiracy theory will thrill folks who like that stuff. But if they did participate willingly it was after they received the request for exemption. As dull-witted as Braley is, he wouldn't pull a stunt like Gerry suggested. He'd never get a job in his field again.
This started with the team and its coach. In the end, if anyone pays, it will be them.
I'll assume you meant to say "WE can't, no matter how attractive it seems, allow this to just blow over ...", as I was never personally consulted on the decision.
I looked at the residency exemption form on the Curl BC website. It is decidedly vague, but it does outline the accompanying documentation that must be submitted. If John submitted the specified documentation, Curl BC has what they need. They are NOT the police, they're bureaucrats.
If the documentation was untrue, the onus is on an injured party to protest the exemption. Any of the teams he faced in Provincials would certainly qualify as "injured". If no one protests, there's no problem. Apparently no one protested.
Opinions, conjecture and righteous indignation are all well and good in chat rooms (that's why chat rooms exist). However, when it elevates to accusing people of lying and fraud in a quasi-legal sense (which is what you're suggesting should happen), there are the small matters of burden of proof and evidence that come into play. In that world, it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. I haven't seen any proof or actual evidence ... have you?
The time to deal with this was at Provincials when eligibility actually meant something, not months later. Next time, perhaps people will be a little more vigilant.
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| 04-04-14 08:52AM |
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Unregistered
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If the changes rumoured and confirmed are all true might want to start the letter-writing campaign soon - likely the very last game between the "classic" Martin-Howard rosters is scheduled for Draw 3 of the Player's Championship on Wednesday AM April 16 and the Sportsnet Family of Networks as is their custom isn't scheduled to pickup any coverage until Thursday.
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| 04-04-14 01:03PM |
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nelsosi
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2012
Location: YYZ, Canada
Posts: 498 |
quote:
Originally posted by CurlingRH
The time to deal with this was at Provincials when eligibility actually meant something, not months later. Next time, perhaps people will be a little more vigilant.
Generally, I would agree with you. But the Morris situation is a little different. As I understood it (and perhaps I'm wrong), the exemption he was granted was in part based on an understanding that he would meet certain requirements AFTER the season. In that case, there's no way to 'deal with this' until a later date, if it then becomes clear he hasn't fulfilled his end of the bargain.
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| 04-04-14 01:19PM |
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Unregistered
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If Morris really made agreements to fulfill the residency requirement after the season it really makes me look stupid now to have defended him.
There's really nothing you can do to him now though, the season is basically over.
CurlBC wont do anything to him even if anything could be done. They aren't afraid of backlash and looking stupid, why should they?. They already look bad and desperate enough so if people want to be pissed off about this they will let them.
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| 04-04-14 01:29PM |
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CurlingRH
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 27 |
quote:
Originally posted by nelsosi
Generally, I would agree with you. But the Morris situation is a little different. As I understood it (and perhaps I'm wrong), the exemption he was granted was in part based on an understanding that he would meet certain requirements AFTER the season. In that case, there's no way to 'deal with this' until a later date, if it then becomes clear he hasn't fulfilled his end of the bargain.
Interesting twist. Can you elaborate on your understanding of the outstanding requirements?
I'm at a loss to imagine a post-season condition that would put his exemption at risk for the season just concluded. What leverage would they have after allowing him to play in Provincials and represent BC at the Brier. He has his exemption, the season is over ... that's that. Any other outcome could put BC's participation in the Brier in question (not going to happen).
I'm also at a loss to imagine a post-season condition that doesn't smack of "selling exemptions". We'll give you the exemption if you run some clinics next year, or do some PR work for us in the upcoming year. No clinics ... no exemption. That would not be good for Curl BC
While it would be very helpful if Curl BC were to issue some form of explanation, I really can't see them doing anything other than hunkering down and waiting for it to go away. With all the upheaval in the wake of the Olympics, they probably won't have to wait long.
Last edited by CurlingRH on 04-04-14 at 02:17PM
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| 04-04-14 03:41PM |
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Unregistered
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Re: John Morris, he has said in the past that he is close friends with Marc Kennedy and Ben Hiebert. It's total guesswork on my part, but Morris may have been a little disappointed that he was (likely) not approached to be a part of the new Kevin Koe 'super rink'. A line-up of Koe, Morris, Kennedy and Hiebert would have been every bit as good as Koe, Kennedy, Laing and Hebert.
Total guesswork on my part, but I wonder if John expected that Kennedy and Hiebert - if they ever left Kevin Martin - would hook up with him again? Now that they haven't done so, he wants to evaluate where he goes from here.
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| 04-04-14 08:16PM |
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Unregistered
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quote:
Originally posted by nelsosi
Generally, I would agree with you. But the Morris situation is a little different. As I understood it (and perhaps I'm wrong), the exemption he was granted was in part based on an understanding that he would meet certain requirements AFTER the season. In that case, there's no way to 'deal with this' until a later date, if it then becomes clear he hasn't fulfilled his end of the bargain.
Its also worth noting that most of us at provincials didn't know about the situation until just before the event.
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| 04-04-14 08:24PM |
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CurlingRH
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 27 |
quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
Its also worth noting that most of us at provincials didn't know about the situation until just before the event.
Was the issue raised with Curl BC when it became known?
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| 04-05-14 01:41PM |
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Unregistered
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quote:
Originally posted by CurlingRH
Was the issue raised with Curl BC when it became known?
Of course. Scott Braley refuses to provide information or even return inquiries on the topic. Ask Curl BC executives and the Braley camp give you bafflegab, the honest ones shrug because no one was consulted on the exemption.
Everything points to Braley making the decision on his own. The questions remain: who is the mystery employer? How will Curl BC confirm the employment actually happened (ha-ha) and what will be done if it doesn't?
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| 04-08-14 01:18PM |
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Unregistered
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So is everyone certain, like I am, that this skip that Nolan, Carter and Pat are bringing in is Kevin Martin? It would seem to be a perfect fit.. not wanting to curl a full schedule (cash-spiel wise) but still wanting to be able to seriously compete in the biggest events.
http://www.teamkoe.ca/blog/recent/1097/
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| 04-08-14 03:41PM |
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peteski
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 631 |
quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
So is everyone certain, like I am, that this skip that Nolan, Carter and Pat are bringing in is Kevin Martin? It would seem to be a perfect fit.. not wanting to curl a full schedule (cash-spiel wise) but still wanting to be able to seriously compete in the biggest events.
http://www.teamkoe.ca/blog/recent/1097/
I think Jeff Stoughton would make some sense too. Even Glenn Howard is conceivable to me as I'm not sure what's left of his team. I'm personally hoping it's Martin just because it's the only scenario where I could see him playing on.
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| 04-08-14 03:45PM |
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Unregistered
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John Morris would be a good skip join the team too.
john did say he would come back next year if he had a bye into the brier, which he would if he join the team, also the Canada cup and continental cup.
Kevin martin coming in to skip would definitely be fun to watch.
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| 04-08-14 04:12PM |
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Unregistered
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quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
John Morris would be a good skip join the team too.
john did say he would come back next year if he had a bye into the brier, which he would if he join the team, also the Canada cup and continental cup.
Kevin martin coming in to skip would definitely be fun to watch.
I don't quite think Morris is ideal for a more veteran team like this. He's a better fit for a younger team (like the one he skipped last year) where he can provide motivation and leadership. Also, I don't think Morris would be an elite last rock thrower (and I don't think Simmons is either).
I suppose Jeff and Glenn are possibilities as well (I assume there are no residency requirements for Team Canada), but Martin makes so much more sense considering him, Carter and Nolan all live in or around Edmonton and would make practicing much easier.
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| 04-08-14 04:18PM |
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Unregistered
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Kevin Martin definitely makes the most sense for the remaining three Team Koe curlers to align with. Then again, Pat might surprise us and choose to skip again, so our guess of Martin, Morris or even Stoughton might be totally out to lunch.
If John Morris was committed to a full slate of curling, my guess is they'd pick him up and he'd skip the rink with Pat throwing last rocks. But because John wants a reduced schedule, Martin has to be the most logical pick-up. Stoughton is a total longshot in my mind.
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| 04-08-14 04:44PM |
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Unregistered
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Why would you pick up Morris? Curl BC is under pressure to revisit his exemption. He could end up banned for the year.
Besides, Martin is far better under pressure.
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| 04-08-14 04:58PM |
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Unregistered
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I really don't think it'll be jeff or glenn. Its either going to be martin or pat is going to take over as skip and they'll pick up someone young like charley Thomas to play third.
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| 04-08-14 05:48PM |
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Unregistered
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I'd rate the odds at:
Kmart 80%: I don't see how he isn't the first person they ask.
The Field 20%: If Kmart declines, who knows what could happen.
quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
I really don't think it'll be jeff or glenn. Its either going to be martin or pat is going to take over as skip and they'll pick up someone young like charley Thomas to play third.
Pat taking over as skip and bringing someone like Thomas to play third would be akin to just going on a victory tour without a real chance to win the Brier again. I don't think they'll do that. They need a top flight skip/shotmaker to compete at the highest level and a Simmons/Thomas back-end isn't going to do it.
quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
Why would you pick up Morris? Curl BC is under pressure to revisit his exemption. He could end up banned for the year.
Besides, Martin is far better under pressure.
I don't think Morris is one of their top choices, but thinking that Curl BC has the power to "ban" someone from curling for a year is laughable.
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| 04-08-14 05:59PM |
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Unregistered
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And, if you think Kevin Martin is the same curler 'under pressure' that he was 5 to 10 years ago, we haven't been watching the same Kevin Martin. His rink has left him for a reason. He's no longer the great clutch curler he once was.
No blame to Kevin; that's what age and increased nerves do to you.
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| 04-08-14 06:59PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Martin is the monster pressure curler of all-time so he'd be my first choice, too!
K-Mart is a man without a country right now (aka team) and he might be refreshed by having some fresh players on his squad.
Literary orgy though when it comes to shot discussions with Carter rapping hard and Nolan on bass.
If they can't wrap up Martin I suspect the alternative is for Pat to skip and bring David Ned in at 3rd.
Neither Martin nor Nedohin might be interested in joining The Noisy Boys but the carrot of a Brier auto-berth is almost irresistible!
depends on whether or not david wants to play again. the lure of the Olympics is what got him to curl with kevin. There's no real incentive for him to curl with simmons and co.
He's won the brier and worlds multiple times, I don't think that's a good enough lure
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