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| 01-17-15 12:35PM |
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Unregistered
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Re: Tankard Playdowns
quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
The governing bodies in their wisdom have bent to the pressure of some players and have allowed Ontario teams to include players from outside the province in playdowns. This is wrong and should be changed. The Brier is a National Championship, a championship of the provinces and should remain so (all the provinces.....not relegating anyone and with no TEAM CANADA).
I disagree with this argument. First of all, if you don't want the Brier to be THE national championship, as in THE selector of the men's national team, then that is completely fine. I think we all can agree that the men's national team has to be selected from a field of the very best teams. But allowing provincial teams to have players from other provinces doesn't diminish the fundamental provincial competitiveness that is the event. As you said, fans cheers for team. They cheers proudly for their colours, and they have done so for decades regardless of who was wearing them. Players, especially in curling, wear those colours proudly regardless of where they are from. Should there be a reasonable connection between the team and the province? Sure. But clearly we don't need to go as far as checking lineages and and grand-parents places of birth just for the sake of purity and tradition. There is a balance, and I think allowing teams to build themselves with one or two players from out of province doesn't change the nature of the Brier.
Final point, since you brought up the World Series for comparison... Should I have cheered less for the '92 and '93 Jays since they weren't *really* Canada's team? Am I wrong to be proud of that, as a Canadian?
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| 01-17-15 03:07PM |
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Re: Re: Tankard Playdowns
quote:
Originally posted by peteski
Nicklaus/Woods/Palmer never got a bye to the 3rd round, but they did get a bye to the first round while others had to play in qualifying events. If anything the comparison favours the idea of byes to provincial. Imagine if Federer and Nadal had to play qualifiers to get to Wimbledon. How silly would that be?
I hear the baseball comparison all the time and it makes no sense. Baseball has a league of 30 teams where 162 games are played. It wouldn't make sense to give a team a bye to the playoffs. In curling they play on a couple weekends. The issue with the playdowns to the Tankard is that it is a small sample size often played on poor conditions.
I don't really have an issue with all teams going through playdowns provided the ice is reasonable, but, I really don't see a problem with giving a spot or two to the highest point earners. And, I do think it's good for the event organizers to have the "best" teams there. It may not be a hugely successful endeavor either way, but it can only help to have a team like Howard there. I actually live reasonably close to the site of this year's Tankard and I can tell you there is a much stronger chance I will go if Howard qualifies.
Hi Pete,
The baseball analogy is in fact valid. The point was that the history of the event and something that I liked was that no one got any quarter based on previous play. We all started at the club level whether world champion or not. The series winner has to play the 162 games to get back just like the teams that it beat last year.
I think it should be within the single competition, you think it shouldn't and so you like the bye. You are welcome to you opinion and I to mine
You don't have any comment (I find that near impossible to believe) on the other 90 percent of what was commented on? Do you support the change to allow teams to be made up of players from out of province? If yes, why change this?
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| 01-17-15 03:42PM |
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misty1
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glenn loses to ross and drops down to B already. i just cant even fathom a brier tankard without glenn howard in it
im torn about how i feel about it. great in a way but also terrible because he is a top team and you want top teams present.
i think if glenn fails to qualify though that'll be it for him
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| 01-17-15 03:43PM |
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misty1
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not ideal either for glenn. now he has to win 5 matches in a row in 2 days and he landed in the tougher half with tuck jr. and bowser up early
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| 01-17-15 04:06PM |
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CurlingGeek
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Registered: Apr 2011
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Tough game for Team Howard, but full credit to Ross: they played well the whole way, and made a super clutch draw to clinch it. Two missed shots by Glenn in the 4th decide the game.
Next game is 5pm eastern: Howard vs McDonald in an elimination game. Live coverage here:
https://games.curlinggeek.com/broadcast/37
Last edited by CurlingGeek on 01-17-15 at 04:38PM
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| 01-17-15 06:20PM |
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Unregistered
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A lot of these issues are addressed by "I feel...", and "I think..." and you're always going to have varying opinions when it comes to that sort of thing. (ie. byes, etc.).
But there are a few things here that are purely logistical, that are rooted in fact, that are indisputable. These keep getting buried by the "I think"s and "I feels".
The Zones are broken. Too many have 3 or 4 teams and the OCA is having a brutal time finding clubs to host. There's no incentive for a club to host these things.
On a related note, due to this 'scraping of the bottle of the barrel' in order to find host clubs, these competitions are routinely held at facilities that are less than 'competitive' calibre.
These two things are fact. I've offered no opinion as of yet.
A possible solution to this logistical problem, would be:
If the OCA were to collapse the zones and just run large regional competitions, they would no longer have to find 20 clubs to host Tankard Zones & Regions. A huge logistical relief.
On a related note, by only needing 4 clubs they would be able to select clubs with more 'competition' calibre facilities. If you're willing to sign up for Zones now with the potential of winning and having to travel a little further to a Region, then there can be no complaining of starting there in the first place.
As a side benefit, by having more teams in one place there may actually be a benefit to the host club in the form of more spectators and participants buying a few beers at the bar.
This sort of thing is an easy first step toward's fixing some issues that have nothing to do with personal preference. Put teams on better ice and you'll hear less petitioning for byes.
This is something so simple, that is so beneficial to EVERYBODY involved (not just 'elites' or whatever), I just can't for the life of me understand why it hasn't been done already.
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| 01-17-15 07:02PM |
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CURLING NUTS
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Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by misty1
glenn loses to ross and drops down to B already. i just cant even fathom a brier tankard without glenn howard in it
im torn about how i feel about it. great in a way but also terrible because he is a top team and you want top teams present.
i think if glenn fails to qualify though that'll be it for him
Doesn't look good for the bye team? Bang bang?
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| 01-17-15 07:51PM |
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Sean
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Location: Canada
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Glenn had a draw to the full 4 foot for the win, comes up short and his bid for another Provincial title is GONE 
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| 01-17-15 07:52PM |
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Unregistered
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quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad
Monday morning this post wil be quiet because Howard will have made it through, or full ofgnashing of teeth and arguing about qualifying if he doesn't.
good post ya dumb broad
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| 01-17-15 08:02PM |
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Unregistered
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So now are we going to hear about how the system needs to be changed because a team with four losses in the qualifying process didn't get there?
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| 01-17-15 08:02PM |
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CURLING NUTS
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Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by ObsessiveCurler
Glenn had a draw to the full 4 foot for the win, comes up short and his bid for another Provincial title is GONE
If you saw the game(s), where did team Howard fall down. Did the entire team not play well?
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| 01-17-15 08:12PM |
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Sean
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quote:
Originally posted by CURLING NUTS
If you saw the game(s), where did team Howard fall down. Did the entire team not play well?
I only caught the final 3 ends after the skins game. Team Howard actually played really well in those ends, Glenn had a shot to win that he makes 90% of the time and he missed it :shrugs:
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| 01-17-15 08:28PM |
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CURLING NUTS
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As reported by Yahoo sports
"The ice at Bradford was reported to be slow and straight and it is possible that the Howard rink, having gotten very much used to the best ice conditions in the world while on tour, were unable to adjust. It is, after all, the first time Howard has needed to qualify since 2006. He'd automatically gained entry since 2007, as defending champion."
Can anyone substantiate this claim?
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| 01-17-15 08:31PM |
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Sean
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quote:
Originally posted by CURLING NUTS
As reported by Yahoo sports
"The ice at Bradford was reported to be slow and straight and it is possible that the Howard rink, having gotten very much used to the best ice conditions in the world while on tour, were unable to adjust. It is, after all, the first time Howard has needed to qualify since 2006. He'd automatically gained entry since 2007, as defending champion."
Can anyone substantiate this claim?
CurlingGeek did mention that there was 2 feet of curl during the game, making drawing and burying around guards tough.
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| 01-17-15 08:36PM |
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curlerbroad
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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
quote:
Originally posted by ObsessiveCurler
CurlingGeek did mention that there was 2 feet of curl during the game, making drawing and burying around guards tough.
Funny it was like that the Bonspiel I curled in there in Nov over...and the ice was very heavy too.
__________________
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| 01-17-15 08:38PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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relegation
I'm certain the rest of the country would very amused if there was a big upset at the provincials and some how Ontario was relegated. Oh Yes, very amused.
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| 01-17-15 08:44PM |
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misty1
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Re: relegation
quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
I'm certain the rest of the country would very amused if there was a big upset at the provincials and some how Ontario was relegated. Oh Yes, very amused.
ontario has enough other options where that really shouldnt be a worry. epping, kean, balsdon.In a few years squires might also be up there with them.Ontario has some of the greatest depth on the mens side of any of the provinces. Behind alberta and manitoba only really.
as long as the winner isnt someone completely random they should always be fine
Last edited by misty1 on 01-17-15 at 08:46PM
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| 01-17-15 09:30PM |
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curlerbroad
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Re: relegation
quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
I'm certain the rest of the country would very amused if there was a big upset at the provincials and some how Ontario was relegated. Oh Yes, very amused.
😀😀😀
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| 01-17-15 09:34PM |
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Unregistered
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Has anyone bought the fake rock made out of wood that holds the shot glasses?
I keep seeing an ad for it.
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| 01-17-15 09:37PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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Excluding the top 3-4 teams, the rest would be equivalent of most other provinces, other than AB and MB. If you don't count the automatic points these teams earn by playing each other EVERY week, they'd be just like every other team in Canada trying to make their way to the brier. Yes, congrats you have the OCA tour, but it's still the viscious circle of points. Teams with points playing vs teams with points will earn MORE points, regardless of talent level. Teams playing within THEIR provinces of teams that can't afford to travel to play against teams with GUARANTEED points EVERY week, will NEVER earn enough points to compete against their Ontario counterparts. The one example that can be used for THIS season is Casey from PEI. Yes they did well but they had to travel to about 15 spiels to earn their points. And they had major sponsorship and CCA funding. How many teams can take 50 days vacation from work to do this? None is the answer unless you're full time curlers.
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| 01-17-15 11:22PM |
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WrongHandle
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 66 |
I previously suggested the CTRS points leader go to the provincials as part of the soluation. My main motivation was to open up another spot at provincials for up and coming teams. After reading and watching, I now think maybe that idea needs careful consideration. I think provs should have at least 12 teams but how they get there is certainly up for debate.
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