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| 03-01-15 04:28PM |
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peteski
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 631 |
quote:
Originally posted by Netz
I hope this is the last we see of Koe, really like him, but can't take all the input from the others, c'mon now every shot.
By the way Jacobs is not much better.
I saw one instance last night where Koe looked like he had enough, well say something.
I remember people here used to say that Kevin Martin was just lucky as he needed Ben and Marc to make all his shots. After watching the game this morning, I can't help but wonder if Ben and Marc needed a Kevin Martin just as much. Someone who was clearly in charge and supremely confident in his game calling.
Certainly, Koe is just struggling right now, and these guys are talented enough to figure it out, but I don't think it helps Koe to have these guys questioning every little decision he makes.
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| 03-01-15 04:31PM |
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Jimbobogie
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 538 |
For those who are concerned about the "quality" of a full Brier/Scotties field and the winner's ability to represent Canada, here's a suggestion...
Just scrap the Scotties and the Brier altogether.
I mean, who wants to see mediocrity, right? Think of the money that the CCA and provincial associations will save by not having stupid provincial playdowns.
Just send the pro tour winners-that way people won't have to take time off work to travel across the country and meet fellow curling fans. Who gives a crap, right?
There-problem solved-you're welcome.
__________________
Jim
Last edited by Jimbobogie on 03-01-15 at 04:35PM
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| 03-01-15 04:41PM |
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peteski
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 631 |
quote:
Originally posted by nicecontroleasy
Someone on here posted before saying we have always had relegation for eons. It was just all of the Territories playing off for 1 spot. Was that fair? Not really.
Now it has converted to 4 of the bottom provinces and territories (or region of Northern Ontario) playing for that last spot. Is that fair? Not completely.
Is it fair when some of our best teams compete for 1 spot out of the same province? No, not fair either.
But, The Brier has never been about fairness!
Inequalities have been around in The Brier for a long, long time. A National Championship in its purest form is having the best of the best competing to represent our country on the World stage no matter where they live in Canada. However, The Brier is a showcase of Canadiana that just happens to be our designated National Championship.
Curling Canada appears to be attempting to do a balancing act between the two ideals. It appears they are adapting a middle ground with some of the recent changes and trying to make The Brier a stronger competition while still keeping elements of tradition. But, on the flip side many will argue to go all the way one way or the other - do it right and do it well instead of somewhere in between.
Thoughts?
You're certainly right that the Brier has never been about fairness and I think you're right that Curling Canada is trying to balance the two ideals. I'm personally fine with it in theory. I'll enjoy this Brier at least as much, if not more than most Briers. However, I do think the execution of this has been sloppy (eliminating a team on a draw to the button, for example).
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| 03-01-15 04:45PM |
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peteski
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 631 |
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbobogie
For those who are concerned about the "quality" of a full Brier/Scotties field and the winner's ability to represent Canada, here's a suggestion...
Just scrap the Scotties and the Brier altogether.
I mean, who wants to see mediocrity, right? Think of the money that the CCA and provincial associations will save by not having stupid provincial playdowns.
Just send the pro tour winners-that way people won't have to take time off work to travel across the country and meet fellow curling fans. Who gives a crap, right?
There-problem solved-you're welcome.
OK, straw man. No one wants that. If you're argument is that the quality of the field shouldn't matter, I think that's a questionable argument, but you're welcome to it.
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| 03-01-15 05:10PM |
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Jimbobogie
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 538 |
You're saying that nobody wants that, but on the other hand you want the Brier to be nothing more than another stop on the popular pro circuit-with a corresponding number of ticket sales. If you've read my earlier posts, you know how I feel about the Brier and Scotties (firmly in the Bob Weeks camp).
Nobody complains about the size of the U.S. Open or Masters fields because some pros get the week off to accommodate amateur players. The TV ratings tend to be higher than those of a regular PGA Tour event too.
Won't it be funny if Alberta and Manitoba are both missing from next year's Brier? As I said earlier, the Scotties folks are going to have fun selling advance packages in B.C.
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Jim
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| 03-01-15 05:22PM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbobogie
For those who are concerned about the "quality" of a full Brier/Scotties field and the winner's ability to represent Canada, here's a suggestion...
Just scrap the Scotties and the Brier altogether.
I mean, who wants to see mediocrity, right? Think of the money that the CCA and provincial associations will save by not having stupid provincial playdowns.
Just send the pro tour winners-that way people won't have to take time off work to travel across the country and meet fellow curling fans. Who gives a crap, right?
There-problem solved-you're welcome.
My guess is this is exactly what the ca and the wct are planning with a big push from the tv networks.
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| 03-01-15 05:52PM |
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johnnysmoke
Drawmaster
Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 612 |
quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
K-Mart was always clearly in control. Sometimes he'd bring his players into it to confirm a decision he'd already made - giving them the illusion they were part of the decision-making process. They weren't!
Says Kevin Martin's brain...
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| 03-01-15 05:59PM |
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Deez
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 86 |
Did I hear that there was a broken rock in the New Brunswick game? True/Not True?
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| 03-01-15 06:39PM |
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sternwheeler
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Canoe Cove, PEI
Posts: 411 |
false.....
quote:
Originally posted by Deez
Did I hear that there was a broken rock in the New Brunswick game? True/Not True?
was told Gallant from N.L. had broken handle on rock during game 
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| 03-01-15 07:03PM |
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CurlingNut1994
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Ontario
Posts: 36 |
quote:
Originally posted by peteski
I remember people here used to say that Kevin Martin was just lucky as he needed Ben and Marc to make all his shots. After watching the game this morning, I can't help but wonder if Ben and Marc needed a Kevin Martin just as much. Someone who was clearly in charge and supremely confident in his game calling.
Certainly, Koe is just struggling right now, and these guys are talented enough to figure it out, but I don't think it helps Koe to have these guys questioning every little decision he makes.
I totally agree with you. Kevin Martin was truly one of the best especially when it came to strategy. He always was one step ahead and knew exactly what he wanted to do. He didn't need to ask his teammates for input on what shot to play a whole lot. Koe on the other hand seems to need opinions from his teammates all the time even with shots where the best call is very obvious. But I find Hebert annoying with him forcing his opinion on the best shot down the team's throat saying like his option is 'by far' better than the other ones and stuff like that. So I don't blame Koe one bit if he finds that irritating.
Anyway Koe is so indecisive, especially this week he has seemed to be lost and have no idea what he's doing. Even Kennedy himself wondered out loud if Koe even had a plan during this morning's game. Kennedy and Hebert played with Martin so long adjusting to playing with Koe would be very difficult. The same goes with Brent Laing after playing with Howard for a long time. So to me there's no doubt Hebert and Kennedy needed him just as badly, if not more so, than Martin needed them.
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| 03-01-15 07:11PM |
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Sean
Administrator
Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1992 |
quote:
Originally posted by peteski
Certainly, Koe is just struggling right now, and these guys are talented enough to figure it out, but I don't think it helps Koe to have these guys questioning every little decision he makes.
I completely agree. Koe is a 2-time Canadian Champ, let him call the game. I cringe everytime Marc or Brent question his calls or ice. It's unnecessary.
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| 03-01-15 07:13PM |
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albetts
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 1120 |
quote:
Originally posted by CurlingNut1994
I totally agree with you. Kevin Martin was truly one of the best especially when it came to strategy. He always was one step ahead and knew exactly what he wanted to do. He didn't need to ask his teammates for input on what shot to play a whole lot. Koe on the other hand seems to need opinions from his teammates all the time even with shots where the best call is very obvious. But I find Hebert annoying with him forcing his opinion on the best shot down the team's throat saying like his option is 'by far' better than the other ones and stuff like that. So I don't blame Koe one bit if he finds that irritating.
Anyway Koe is so indecisive, especially this week he has seemed to be lost and have no idea what he's doing. Even Kennedy himself wondered out loud if Koe even had a plan during this morning's game. Kennedy and Hebert played with Martin so long adjusting to playing with Koe would be very difficult. The same goes with Brent Laing after playing with Howard for a long time. So to me there's no doubt Hebert and Kennedy needed him just as badly, if not more so, than Martin needed them.
Hebert has far too much to say. He's behaving as if he's enjoying being heard. Something he didn't enjoy when he played with Martin. I wish he would just shut up and I also wish Koe would stop giving the rest of the team the impression that he values their opinion. Just stop asking for it and do your stuff. You (Koe) are too good at what you do. The look on Brent's face this morning was like "I'm not sure I made the right decision here". Its Brent and Kevin Koe that I'm feeling a wee bit sorry for.
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| 03-01-15 08:01PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
great win for the young guys from pei today. very good rebound from the ontario heartbreak.
this team could very well be 2-0 right now. looking really good gere
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| 03-01-15 08:31PM |
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sternwheeler
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Canoe Cove, PEI
Posts: 411 |
Island boys hang in tough against Team Canada
and certainly they deserved the win following a narrow lose yesterday ....Casey is smooth throwing skips stones 
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| 03-01-15 08:32PM |
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Netz
Swing Artist
Registered: Oct 2002
Location:
Posts: 222 |
quote:
Originally posted by CurlingNut1994
I totally agree with you. Kevin Martin was truly one of the best especially when it came to strategy. He always was one step ahead and knew exactly what he wanted to do. He didn't need to ask his teammates for input on what shot to play a whole lot. Koe on the other hand seems to need opinions from his teammates all the time even with shots where the best call is very obvious. But I find Hebert annoying with him forcing his opinion on the best shot down the team's throat saying like his option is 'by far' better than the other ones and stuff like that. So I don't blame Koe one bit if he finds that irritating.
Anyway Koe is so indecisive, especially this week he has seemed to be lost and have no idea what he's doing. Even Kennedy himself wondered out loud if Koe even had a plan during this morning's game. Kennedy and Hebert played with Martin so long adjusting to playing with Koe would be very difficult. The same goes with Brent Laing after playing with Howard for a long time. So to me there's no doubt Hebert and Kennedy needed him just as badly, if not more so, than Martin needed them.
Koe did not do too bad pre Kennedy-Laing-Hebert.
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| 03-01-15 08:40PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
i dont think its ever bad for a third or the team to share ideas with the skip as long as the skip has final say. It does seem to me that kevin is questioning himself a lot more than i have seen him before and i dont know if thats lack of confidence or just constantly being questioned by his team.
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| 03-01-15 08:42PM |
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Sean
Administrator
Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1992 |
Apparently Kevin Koe has been suffering from food poisoning since yesterday, which would explain his poor play.
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| 03-01-15 08:44PM |
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Jimbobogie
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 538 |
decade, I sincerely hope that you're wrong-the key word is "hope". There will be a real price to pay.
__________________
Jim
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| 03-01-15 09:02PM |
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Rock Your World
Swing Artist
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 313 |
Mat Camm is for all intents and purposes the skip of Ontario.. He and his 2 junior buddies boss Mark a round quite a bit
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| 03-01-15 11:34PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002 |
great day for pei going 2-0. 2-1 now and really should be 3-0. keep going guys.
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| 03-01-15 11:57PM |
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peteski
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 631 |
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbobogie
You're saying that nobody wants that, but on the other hand you want the Brier to be nothing more than another stop on the popular pro circuit-with a corresponding number of ticket sales. If you've read my earlier posts, you know how I feel about the Brier and Scotties (firmly in the Bob Weeks camp).
Nobody complains about the size of the U.S. Open or Masters fields because some pros get the week off to accommodate amateur players. The TV ratings tend to be higher than those of a regular PGA Tour event too.
Won't it be funny if Alberta and Manitoba are both missing from next year's Brier? As I said earlier, the Scotties folks are going to have fun selling advance packages in B.C.
I mean, would you say this Brier is nothing more than another stop on the pro circuit? I would not. I certainly would not want them to change the provincial/territorial format, but I am ok not having every one of them in the main draw (as are most people, because they didn't care that only one of the territories were represented before).
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| 03-02-15 12:00AM |
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peteski
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 631 |
quote:
Originally posted by decade
My guess is this is exactly what the ca and the wct are planning with a big push from the tv networks.
Can I just ask, why would the CCA or TSN want to scrap the Brier/Scotties? How would that be a positive for them?
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| 03-02-15 01:26AM |
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CaptMorgan
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 900 |
quote:
Originally posted by Curl401
As for 'you' watching the Rel round...who cares.
My point exactly! Why is your opinion so special?
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| 03-02-15 01:31AM |
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mcgregorm89
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 210 |
quote:
Originally posted by Island Roger
CCA should pay attention to the crowds. WTC events are empty. Brier is packed.
There is a reason for that.
IF the CCA wants to use the Canada Cup to decide the World Championship Rep I dont think anyone (Curlers / Provinces / CCA) would have a problem with that. It would give them time to prepare, schedule time from work etc etc.
But by changing the format of the Brier / Scotties they are playing with fire.
The Scotties just had record setting ratings, over a million tuned in for the finals on Oscar night but yeah with relegation these are dying because people couldn't go on without. Is Harper still in the stands maybe PEI and NS can hand deliver their petition now.
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