Registered: Apr 2013
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Let's start the controversy... why is this rule in place?

WCF RULES...

C9. TEAM RANKING PROCEDURE / DRAW SHOT CHALLENGE

(c) When teams are tied for a play-off position, a maximum of one session of tie-breakers will be played to determine which team(s) advances to the play-offs. Team(s) can be eliminated, without playing an extra game, if more than one session of tie-breakers would be required.

QUESTION: Does the BRIER (CCA) do this??? Vic Rauter repeatedly commented on TSN on the CAN-ITA game about the possibility of teams who are guaranteed a tiebreaker if they get 6 wins. In other words, Vic is not aware of any CCA rules of only 1 tiebreaker. I don't see anything on CCA rules to that effect????

To add, the WCF schedule of games on their web site has 2 draws for tiebreakers??? Why???

It doesn't make sense.

Since we lost to both FIN and SUI in RR, I can accept, but c'mon let's get the rules uniform in the world.

Nice showing Shuster - Go USA!

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Registered: Sep 2011
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Yes, the CCA does this for the Briar. Famously in the pre-qual this very year (three teams tied at 1-1 in the pre-qual, one team was eliminated on DSC results, by something like 1cm in total).

They did this to reduce uncertainty in scheduling. Enough of a reason? No, not IMO...but it's not my call. This way they know for sure that there will be one and only one TB draw (or zero)

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Registered: Dec 2013
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Since 1 of Finland and Switz. losing gets us a playoff, and both losing gets us 4th place directly, we can have some "fun" by finding the odds of these things happening. Assuming independence of results for this exercise.

Via Pinny, Switz. has a 60.87% chance of winning and Finland a 58.51% chance.

So the chances that both win (again assuming independence) is 60.87% * 58.51% = 35.6%

The chance of a TB vs. Switz. is:
60.87% * 41.49% = 25.25%

The chance of a TB v. Finland is:
39.13% * 58.51% = 22.89%

And finally, the odds of a straight trip into 4th place (pretty amazing at 6-5).
39.13% * 41.49% = 16.23%

Well, sort of fun. I feel bad cheering against teams, but I'd really like to see the US have a shot at a medal.

(*Edit: wrote Sweden for Switzerland, but the odds are right)

Last edited by Wyrm1 on 04-02-15 at 05:48PM

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Registered: Feb 2013
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To have teams play 11 games and then use DSC to break ties is ridiculous.
I think it would make much more sense to use head-to-head. If it ends with Finland, Swiss and USA in 3-way tie, then I think it would be much more fair that USA be eliminated because they lost to both teams.
In this case, I guess I am glad they are using the ridiculous DSC since it apparently will put USA into tiebreaker.
Maybe best case is for Swiss and/or Finland to lose tonight so there are no more than 2 teams tied.

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Registered: Sep 2011
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Unfortunately dbsdbs...

H2H is the first tiebreaker applied.

DSC is only used if H2H cannot adequately resolve the ties.

In any scenario that can still occur at this WC, H2H will solve the tie...to the US's detriment.

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Registered: Apr 2011
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CurlingGeek will cover the ITA-FIN game, and provide updates on JPN-SUI as best we can.

https://games.curlinggeek.com/broadcast/148

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quote:

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Originally posted by Steviewondering
MacDonald beat Murdoch fair and square back in their national championship. He earned the right to be at the worlds and Murdoch didn't. Would Murdoch really do well if he was skip right now? It's not his own team for one. He's played third most of the week and they've still lost most of their games. If Scotland keeps throwing Murdoch into the fold at every World level event then who replaces him when he retires?

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quote:

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Originally posted by AlanMacNeill
Unfortunately dbsdbs...

H2H is the first tiebreaker applied.

DSC is only used if H2H cannot adequately resolve the ties.

In any scenario that can still occur at this WC, H2H will solve the tie...to the US's detriment.

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Registered: Apr 2011
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Italy v Finland is live now on CurlingGeek, with huge implications for the USA:

https://games.curlinggeek.com/broadcast/148

Trying to find a last minute volunteer to cover the JPN-SUI game too...no luck so far.

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Registered: Mar 2014
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Thanks for the coverage Geek. Another draw with no Cananda and no China means no streaming.

I'm surprised TSN didn't plan to cover something during the last session. Could you imagine how up in arms the Canadian fans would be if games that affected their playoff hopes weren't being broadcast.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jimbobogie


Stevie, I'm not questioning how he got there. Team Canada started the Brier with John Morris throwing skip rocks-when they got off to a slow start they simply swapped positions and the rest (with the exception of the Norwegian game) is history. As for the argument about putting Murdoch in and hurting the development of young Scots, why didn't they bring one of those young up-and-coming Scots along as the 5th man and give him some game time?

I'm no curling coach but...

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Registered: Dec 2014
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From 10th place in 2014 to at least 5th place in 2015 with no help from the HPP. Hmmmm... But of course the HPP will claim recognition somehow, probably by saying that because of the new standards, that forced non-HPP teams to up their game and blah blah blah. Riiiiiiight....

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Registered: Mar 2013
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Watching many of the games live, the U.S. could very easily be 8-3. They outplayed and should have beaten Canada for sure, and with a couple shots either way may even be 9-2. With the tie breaker fiasco, never should a team be eliminated with an equal record. The worst thing you can do is base it the on draw to the button scores or who beat who...... as seen at the brier in pre-relegation. There's lots of ice time to do a tie break Friday if necessary.

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Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:

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Originally posted by IMWright
From 10th place in 2014 to at least 5th place in 2015 with no help from the HPP. Hmmmm... But of course the HPP will claim recognition somehow, probably by saying that because of the new standards, that forced non-HPP teams to up their game and blah blah blah. Riiiiiiight....

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Registered: Dec 2014
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quote:

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Originally posted by Gerry


It shows that the points system can be overcome by not being funded and going and winning on the ice. It still will always come down to how well they play the games.

Good luck to Shuster tomorrow, hoping for a great result out of the guys!

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Registered: Feb 2014
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Stevie-I think that we're in agreement on the last point. When the skip is struggling, as was Ewan, there has to be at least the opportunity for him to take a game off-it was very sad to watch him struggling with shot after shot, even when the other members had set up an end. If somebody like Mouat or Menzies were given the opportunity to come in for one game, who knows what would have happened? They went into today's round with at ;east a glimmer of hope-although that glimmer died anyway. As I said, I have some Scottish blood in my veins and to see Scotland go through a week like this is the equivalent of Team Canada's hockey team missing the medal round at the Olympics-the thought should be trespass, as they say.

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Registered: Feb 2014
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To get back to the US issue (the topic of this category is the American performance-well done Mr. Shuster...but you folks sure like to take the HARD WAY, doncha?

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Jim

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Registered: Sep 2011
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It's American...

WE could be all easy mode and coast through...but that's not our style...

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Registered: Feb 2011
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USA Curling is not in a position to win with style points... We have to grind, and grind, and grind, and that's exactly what Shuster & Co. have done. They've bounced back both within games and within the overall competition when it looked like they were falling flat and deserve a lot of credit for scraping their way into Friday when 3-5 usually means an early flight home.

They're one win away from a guaranteed medal game. I'm happy now, but I would be over the moon if they can beat Finland in the tiebreaker.

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Registered: Apr 2011
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CurlingGeek will cover the USA-FIN tie-breaker at 2:30pm Halifax, 1:30pm Eastern tomorrow:

https://games.curlinggeek.com/broadcast/148

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Registered: Sep 2011
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Do we have any sort of confirmation if the TB game will be on either ESPN3 (as they hijack the TSN feed regularly), Youtube (WCF feed...kinda doubt this one as no Chinese team involvement), or UNiversal Sports/NBC Sports Network? (Come on NBC...it's a frickin World Championship Playoff game...you devote 300,000,000 hours to the Tour de France every June, you can break out 2 1/2 hours to actually televise a game that the US is in...really...)?

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Registered: Apr 2011
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Confirmed that TSN has the game at 2:30pm Halifax time. Haven't been able to confirm ESPN3 or YouTube yet.

Last edited by CurlingGeek on 04-03-15 at 08:05AM

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Registered: Dec 2005
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I see it as an upcoming game on the WatchESPN app.

NO LONGER THERE!!! GGGRRRR!

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Last edited by TakeItOut! on 04-03-15 at 09:35AM

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Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:

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Originally posted by jhcurl
It would be nice to keep this thread positive and HPP-free

JHcurl
[/B]

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Registered: Feb 2011
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The game isn't listed on the WCTV YouTube, either.

Here's hoping it all gets sorted out one way or another. I'm planning on taking a lunch break at work during this game anyway (just a shame I can't step out for three hours!).

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"'cause curlers are a rowdy bunch; they're boozers and carousers,
See them hanging out in matching sweaters, throwing rocks at houses,
They're afraid of linoleum, afraid of being chased
Around the kitchen with their socks on by a pack of timberwolves." --Dik Van Dykes

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