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02-16-18 10:00AM |
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IMWright
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 206 |
quote: Originally posted by jamcan
First off, Homan is not classless for removing the burnt Danish stone. Let's make that crystal effing clear.
What is classless is every single poster who has stated such. All you are doing is showing your ignorance of the rules of the sport.
DENMARK broke the rules, not Homan. As such it is Homans choice of the options available to her. Her choice cannot, therefore, be considered sportsmanlike or not.
Poor sportsmanship is on the Danes for REACTING to Homans choice. It is childish and petty on their part to show disbelief or any emotion when they violated a rule and aren't happy with a potential penalty that is clearly outlined in the rules.
Granted, it's a little like a hockey player being allowed to decide how long his opponent sits in the box for a hooking call, but if they don't like the way a rule is written or enforced then take it up with the governing body.
So get off your soapboxes about this. Homan is struggling against teams that have stepped up their game. They don't need a bunch of ignorant armchair aholes judging them for following the rules properly.
I disagree. It was pretty classless. The stone was almost stopped, and did not dramatically get impacted. It wasn't like a takeout where something really got moved and you had no idea what would have happened. I curl quite a bit (not an armchair curler) and have been in the situation many times where the other team burned a stone, it did not dramatically impact the final location of the stone and it did not benefit me; I did not remove it; I would move it an inch or something.
The rule seems to have flexibility so that when it's obvious what would have happened, you can move it to where you think it would have gone, or if you have no idea what would have happened, you can remove it. I don't even think I saw her move the red stone that was tapped (an inch or so) back at all. Her removing it was not in the spirit of the rule, or the game.
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02-16-18 10:04AM |
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nelski
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068 |
quote: Originally posted by jamcan Homan is struggling against teams that have stepped up their game. [/B]
Homan is struggling against herself.
__________________
Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.
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02-16-18 10:30AM |
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albetts
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 1120 |
I'm reading a lot of comments about this burned stone and I just want to say this. Pretend you're Homan in that game and saying this to yourself. "This is a rule and we're at the Olympics. Better take it off. How man people will be offended if I remove the rock from play, and how many people will say, that rock was burned, remove it." Take about a rock and a hard place. No pun intended.
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02-16-18 10:32AM |
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albetts
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 1120 |
quote: Originally posted by jamcan
First off, Homan is not classless for removing the burnt Danish stone. Let's make that crystal effing clear.
What is classless is every single poster who has stated such. All you are doing is showing your ignorance of the rules of the sport.
DENMARK broke the rules, not Homan. As such it is Homans choice of the options available to her. Her choice cannot, therefore, be considered sportsmanlike or not.
Poor sportsmanship is on the Danes for REACTING to Homans choice. It is childish and petty on their part to show disbelief or any emotion when they violated a rule and aren't happy with a potential penalty that is clearly outlined in the rules.
Granted, it's a little like a hockey player being allowed to decide how long his opponent sits in the box for a hooking call, but if they don't like the way a rule is written or enforced then take it up with the governing body.
So get off your soapboxes about this. Homan is struggling against teams that have stepped up their game. They don't need a bunch of ignorant armchair aholes judging them for following the rules properly.
GERRY: We really do need a like button.
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02-16-18 10:33AM |
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nelsosi
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2012
Location: YYZ, Canada
Posts: 498 |
quote: Originally posted by albetts
I'm reading a lot of comments about this burned stone and I just want to say this. Pretend you're Homan in that game and saying this to yourself. "This is a rule and we're at the Olympics. Better take it off. How man people will be offended if I remove the rock from play, and how many people will say, that rock was burned, remove it." Take about a rock and a hard place. No pun intended.
Had she chosen not to remove it and just leave it as is, or given it a little adjustment wack with her broom to the left or right, nobody would be discussing it. Because that's what virtually any other curler would have done in that situation.
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02-16-18 10:48AM |
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NSCoach
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 55 |
quote: Originally posted by fresca
luck in curling - epitomized by korea trying to blank 8 - essentialy makes the shot but tics canada in for the steal
not a smile from koe , brent or ben .. just a look of relief
Koe played to roll next to that rock for a reason and it paid off
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02-16-18 10:53AM |
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340 |
quote: Originally posted by IMWright
I disagree. It was pretty classless. The stone was almost stopped, and did not dramatically get impacted. It wasn't like a takeout where something really got moved and you had no idea what would have happened. I curl quite a bit (not an armchair curler) and have been in the situation many times where the other team burned a stone, it did not dramatically impact the final location of the stone and it did not benefit me; I did not remove it; I would move it an inch or something.
The rule seems to have flexibility so that when it's obvious what would have happened, you can move it to where you think it would have gone, or if you have no idea what would have happened, you can remove it. I don't even think I saw her move the red stone that was tapped (an inch or so) back at all. Her removing it was not in the spirit of the rule, or the game.
If you really have curled quite a bit then you don't pout when you break a rule and the other team exercises their rights under the rule. You made the mistake, not them.
You and Ajay? Armchair aholes as mentioned earlier.
__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson
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02-16-18 10:56AM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
quote: Originally posted by jamcan
F
. All you are doing is showing your ignorance of the rules of the sport.
.
Thumbs down.
We all know the rules of the game but most of us also know the history, etiquette and spirit of the game, Even the announcers admitted that this is never done on the WCT but if you want to win that Olympic medal, then I guess it is okay to be an A$$.
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02-16-18 10:58AM |
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NSCoach
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 55 |
quote: Originally posted by nelsosi
Had she chosen not to remove it and just leave it as is, or given it a little adjustment wack with her broom to the left or right, nobody would be discussing it. Because that's what virtually any other curler would have done in that situation.
The Curse of Labonte and K-Mart pulping the ice with fresh corn were both incidents that developed within the rules of the game but never reflected well upon those involved
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02-16-18 10:59AM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
Also during the 5th end break, Emma's comment about coaches and the teams reaction were completely inappropriate,(albeit likely true) Guess she forgot that she was miked,
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02-16-18 11:01AM |
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IMWright
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 206 |
quote: Originally posted by jamcan
If you really have curled quite a bit then you don't pout when you break a rule and the other team exercises their rights under the rule. You made the mistake, not them.
You and Ajay? Armchair aholes as mentioned earlier.
Me, pouting? Nope. Doesn't impact me. I'm just making an observation and thinking in the honor, etiquette, and spirit of the sport, what was done does not meet that standard. Within her right and rules to do it? Yes. Being in the honor, etiquette, and spirit of the sport, nope.
And calling someone an ahole makes you even more classless. Better that than a troll, I suppose.
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02-16-18 11:02AM |
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albetts
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 1120 |
quote: Originally posted by nelsosi
Had she chosen not to remove it and just leave it as is, or given it a little adjustment wack with her broom to the left or right, nobody would be discussing it. Because that's what virtually any other curler would have done in that situation.
You and I would do that along with a lot of other Canadians. I've never been to the Olympics so I won't and can't honestly say that this was a wrong move. But thanks for your comment.
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02-16-18 11:09AM |
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IMWright
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 206 |
quote: Originally posted by albetts
You and I would do that along with a lot of other Canadians. I've never been to the Olympics so I won't and can't honestly say that this was a wrong move. But thanks for your comment.
Exactly. If I was skipping, I'd tap it an inch, even though the stone being there in any way puts me in a worse position; I wouldn't have simply removed it.
Theoretically, it would have been within Homan's right to have said that stone would have doubled both stones out and removed both of them. Within the rules to do that? Yes, In the spirit of the game? No. That's an extreme example that I don't ever think she would do, but it demonstrates that being able to just simply remove it because the rule technically allows it isn't in the spirit of the sport.
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02-16-18 11:12AM |
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Love2Curl
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Toon Town
Posts: 106 |
I am disappointed that Rachel removed the rock, but I am way disappointed in their putrid performance so far. Maybe the pressure is getting to them.
I just hope they can turn it around
__________________
Inturn..I thought you wanted an out.
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02-16-18 11:43AM |
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Foxworthy
Knee-Slider
Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 2 |
quote: Originally posted by decade
Also during the 5th end break, Emma's comment about coaches and the teams reaction were completely inappropriate,(albeit likely true) Guess she forgot that she was miked,
I missed this and can't seem to find it in the recap videos. What did she say?
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02-16-18 11:43AM |
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bpm
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Nov 2008
Location:
Posts: 40 |
The only thing harder than winning Olympic Gold is pleasing the regulars on CurlingZone. Luckily, this is not a CCA mandate, and Teams Homan (the sky is falling and they're jerks!) and Koe (sure, they're 4-0, but they talk too much and they're slow and it's not the way I would do it!) probably won't be reading any of this garbage (my post included). [Also, something about the announcers being awful! Why won't they ever hire a good one! It has literally never happened!]
I still think Canada will win both golds! And I'm done with you people! (I'll be back)
/sarcasm (in case it wasn't obvious...I think someone asked for this one time)
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02-16-18 12:14PM |
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Observer
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2016
Location: River Falls, WI, USA
Posts: 445 |
I don't know what the coaching situation and rules are in the Olympics. If a team truly is having trouble with their coach and there's a dispute, is it like other sports where the coach can do things like bench a player or command that they do something the coach's way? Or are the teams free to ignore the coach completely and decide the line-up themselves?
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02-16-18 12:49PM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
Oh dear - burnt rock gate is now the top headline on CBC's website.
Quick another Canadian win gold!!! Where's Earle!?! (Homan's old coach)
__________________
Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.
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02-16-18 12:51PM |
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nelski
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068 |
We are mostly curlers here and we know how the mental game can totally blow it for us. Renee is qualified, and so is Cheryl, in her way. And their own coach. Everyone wants the team to fly, but there needs to be a release. The look on Rachel Homan's face on the Olympics page, showing her after the loss is all-telling. Darkness where levity needs to lurk. Can her team mates or her family help her through? As curlers, we know where she has gone and only loving the game, win or lose, can bring her back. Good luck Team Homan. Go Canada Go.
__________________
Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.
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02-16-18 01:32PM |
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prairie guy
Swing Artist
Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Southern Sask.
Posts: 364 |
quote: Originally posted by albetts
GERRY: We really do need a like button.
And a really strong dislike button. Still cheering for our flag but that choice of Homan's was so wrong....
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02-16-18 01:40PM |
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Deliverer
Swing Artist
Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 471 |
" I really, really, really hope they understand how very unsportman like pulling that rock was.." JB42
Normally every person will get a lot from their life if they are humble and respectful of others because it's part of the social contract. But are professional sports part of that contract? If you are a professional athlete playing in a hyper competitive sport, watched by the whole world, that pays big bucks, a small amount of hubris will go a long way. But when it's applied to professional sportsmanship, it is just an illusion. Professionals have only one job, namely: follow the rules and win.
Frankly, I think it is totally disingenuous to pretend that sportsmanship is somehow a driving force in sports. It isn't. It's showmanship. Showmanship is why we watch sports on tv or elsewhere. Showmanship is exciting and it is only when we start feeling guilty about it that we try to impose real life on sports. Sportsmanship is for kids; showmanship is for adult sports fans.
While removing that rock was, of course, technically within the rules established umpteen years ago, rules which Schmirler always took advantage of, let me ask you and all the other "holier - than - you posters:
If the burned rock just happened to be the final rock of the game, AND the game-winning rock, would you still allow sportsmanship to prevail
and hand the win to a team which had violated the existing rules of the game?
I sure as hell hope not!!
Finally, the two sweepers, as well as the Skip, were all very aware When that rock was burned. To be correct, to be ethical, to be professional, that rock should have been removed immediately - while the rock was still in motion - before Homan could even blink.
Shame on the Danes.
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02-16-18 02:03PM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
Most definitely the rock should not have been pulled by the Danes, inside the near hogline all rocks have to come to rest. Then the options kick in. Leave everything as is, place the rocks where they think they would have finished had the infraction not occurred or remove the rock and replace all the other rocks as near as possible to their original position. Yes this is the non offending teams choice but the touch had absolutely no effect on the shot as it happened right at the end. There is the spirit of the game and I have seen Koe in a Brier game overrule the eye on the hog when it indicated a violation that was clearly wrong and let a player rethrow a shot. Sometimes what the rule allow you to do doesn't mean it is the proper thing to do.
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02-16-18 02:06PM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
quote: Originally posted by Deliverer
" I really, really, really hope they understand how very unsportman like pulling that rock was.." JB42
Normally every person will get a lot from their life if they are humble and respectful of others because it's part of the social contract. But are professional sports part of that contract? If you are a professional athlete playing in a hyper competitive sport, watched by the whole world, that pays big bucks, a small amount of hubris will go a long way. But when it's applied to professional sportsmanship, it is just an illusion. Professionals have only one job, namely: follow the rules and win.
Frankly, I think it is totally disingenuous to pretend that sportsmanship is somehow a driving force in sports. It isn't. It's showmanship. Showmanship is why we watch sports on tv or elsewhere. Showmanship is exciting and it is only when we start feeling guilty about it that we try to impose real life on sports. Sportsmanship is for kids; showmanship is for adult sports fans.
While removing that rock was, of course, technically within the rules established umpteen years ago, rules which Schmirler always took advantage of, let me ask you and all the other "holier - than - you posters:
If the burned rock just happened to be the final rock of the game, AND the game-winning rock, would you still allow sportsmanship to prevail
and hand the win to a team which had violated the existing rules of the game?
I sure as hell hope not!!
Finally, the two sweepers, as well as the Skip, were all very aware When that rock was burned. To be correct, to be ethical, to be professional, that rock should have been removed immediately - while the rock was still in motion - before Homan could even blink.
Shame on the Danes.
Well put Deliverer - something that all of us curling etiquette experts are forgetting, the team that burns the rock is supposed to own up to it...and accept the decision of the opposition with grace. I guess with no medals - Denmark needs to do all they can to get one. I noticed that CBC has taken down the burnt rock story. And replaced it with a much better one - Kevin's indigenous heritage.
__________________
Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.
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