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02-19-18 10:24AM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
Re: Lainger's arm/shoulder
quote: Originally posted by Western Newbie
I missed the conversation about Laing and his arm/shoulder impacting his sweeping. what is up?
Only speculation at this time by Joan/Mike They noticed Laing is reversing which hand is lower on the rock depending on which side he is sweeping on and that Ben is sweeping the inside ( could have been outside?) on all rocks now.
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02-20-18 06:26AM |
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JB42
Drawmaster
Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 621 |
Still All to Play for
Well at the very least Team Koe is guaranteed a place in a tie break game. But hold the presses this plot may just be starting to thicken.
Because of who plays who in the final two draws there is the potential for as much whackiness on the men's side as the women's.
There is again the potential for a six way tie for second place. It's not of course likely but here's how it could go landing six teams at 5-4.
On the loss side:
Canada loses to Denmark. Great Britain loses to the U.S.
Swiss lose to the U.S.
That lands them all at 5-4.
On the win side:
Japan beat Denmark and Korea.
U.S. beat G.B. and the Swiss.
Norway beats Italy and Sweden.
That lands them also at 5-4.
I have no idea as to the tie-break rules and in any case this is of course far too theoretical at this point to bother tabulating the potential head to head records. Suffice to say that a lot of teams are going to be scoreboard watching with the rest of us.
Last edited by JB42 on 02-20-18 at 06:40AM
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02-20-18 06:44AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote: Originally posted by JB42
Seems to be some kind of universal balancing act going on. Only one Canadian team at a time is allowed to win.
And the pattern continues...
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02-20-18 08:11AM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
Re: Still All to Play for
quote: Originally posted by JB42
I have no idea as to the tie-break rules...
Pretty straightforward, really...
For any tie of two teams, the team that won the head to head gets the higher placement.
For ties of more than two teams, there is a procedure:
1. Rank the teams within the tie by the result of games between those tied teams.
2. If teams are still tied after that, continue to break ties using the results of games between those teams still in the tie.
3. Any situations that cannot be broken by 1&2 above are ranked by DSC results (18 throws in the Olympics, so discard the worst 2 for each team)
4. Should DSC be tied (unlikely), the team with the best single throw during the DSC is awarded the higher ranking.
Interestingly, although the WCF rules say there will be no tiebreakers, the schedule indicates that there is a tiebreaking draw scheduled...so I'm not at all sure how that is happening.
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02-20-18 09:37AM |
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Three
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 278 |
Re: Re: Still All to Play for
quote: Originally posted by AlanMacNeill
Interestingly, although the WCF rules say there will be no tiebreakers, the schedule indicates that there is a tiebreaking draw scheduled...so I'm not at all sure how that is happening.
WCF rules indidcate there is always one (and only one tie-breaker in the schedule). This includes the Olympics.
ie. if three teams are tied for one final playoff spot...one team is going home due to their draw shot score.
https://www.pyeongchang2018.com/en/...--_1223_ENG.pdf
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02-20-18 09:51AM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
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They *used* to indicate that, but the current rules (10/2017) state:
http://worldcurling.org/download/?d...xGc3NlRapVUq5UV
(Page 42, rule C9(c))
"When teams are tied for a play-off position, team(s) shall be eliminated without playing an extra game, as tie-breaker games will not be played"
I suspect that the old rules (one draw of playoffs, as you stated) are in force for this Olympics, due to how the tie in Mixed was resolved.
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02-20-18 10:09AM |
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Phil_D
Drawmaster
Registered: May 2014
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 629 |
If there is any kind of tie, there will be tiebreak game(s).
At this link is a .pdf with all possible scenarios:
http://www.worldcurling.org/owg2018/scenarios-men
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Last edited by Phil_D on 02-20-18 at 10:14AM
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02-20-18 10:21AM |
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Three
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 278 |
quote: Originally posted by AlanMacNeill
They *used* to indicate that, but the current rules (10/2017) state:
http://worldcurling.org/download/?d...xGc3NlRapVUq5UV
(Page 42, rule C9(c))
"When teams are tied for a play-off position, team(s) shall be eliminated without playing an extra game, as tie-breaker games will not be played"
I suspect that the old rules (one draw of playoffs, as you stated) are in force for this Olympics, due to how the tie in Mixed was resolved.
Wow! I thought it was bad enough when the went to max one-tiebreaker a few years ago. Can't wait to see somebody eliminated at the World's due to this. Anyways for the Olympics it is one tie breaker as stated in the olympic curling rules I posted above. Honestly I hope a bunch of teams get eliminated like this to shine a spotlight on how ridiculous the policy is. I don't care if you have to do three rounds of tie-breakers. Play at midnight, four games in a day. Whatever it takes.
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02-20-18 11:07AM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
if you look at the schedule there is a timeslot listed for tiebreakers should they be needed, 7:05 pm Wednesday night EST
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02-21-18 02:57PM |
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JB42
Drawmaster
Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 621 |
I would bet the house on Koe taking Shuster in the Semi-final.
Like Johnny Mo wasn't willing to let the ole Bear lose another international competition, no way that Marc Kennedy is going to let Koe lose this semi-final.
The final, different story. Sweden starts with the hammer which statistics proves is unfortunately a much bigger deal than many might think. Next, if the Swedes play like they did in the RR they are pretty much unbeatable. Truth be told on the form of the last two seasons Edin is an obvious clear favourite. To overcome the disadvantage of starting without last rock, and this truly excellent team, Team Koe are going to have to stand on their heads. Either that or Sweden is going to have to have one really bad end that lets us get control of this sucker.
Once Team Koe is in the Gold medal game I'm sure they'll feel like their job is done and will relax and give us an awesome game to watch. Here's to hoping it comes down to last rock and we got the hammer.
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02-21-18 03:06PM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
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You're making a couple of big assumptions there.
1. That Sweden gets past the tiebreak winner. Likely, but not guaranteed.
2. That Canada beats the US...there's already been one defeat there this Olympics, and Shuster's on a role...I fancy his chances.
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02-21-18 03:41PM |
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FollowingAlong
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 459 |
quote: Originally posted by AlanMacNeill
You're making a couple of big assumptions there.
1. That Sweden gets past the tiebreak winner. Likely, but not guaranteed.
2. That Canada beats the US...there's already been one defeat there this Olympics, and Shuster's on a role...I fancy his chances.
The betting odds would certainly be in favour of a Sweden vs. Canada final, but there is a reason they play the games...
As for Shuster being on a roll, that is certainly the case. After getting their backs against the wall they have been very solid and although another win against Koe is not impossible, I would suggest it will not be easy. In the round robin game between the two teams, Shuster specifically, and after about the third or fourth end the rest of his team, had perhaps the game of their lives. I suspect it will take an equally strong effort in the semi final to have a chance to win the game.
That being said, in a manner similar to Team Homan, I do not think that Team Koe, and Kevin specifically, have played up to the standard they are capable of. I think it will take a better effort than we have seen so far in the tournament for them to advance to the final.
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02-21-18 03:56PM |
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Ajay
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2014
Location:
Posts: 570 |
It should be noted that Koe has been playing consistently very well. In two loses the other skips pplayed well above their averages, including Shuster who opened with a four ender and then barely hung on to win. If Koe maintains their game, their odds are pretty good.
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02-21-18 04:25PM |
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FollowingAlong
Swing Artist
Registered: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 459 |
quote: Originally posted by Ajay
It should be noted that Koe has been playing consistently very well. In two loses the other skips pplayed well above their averages, including Shuster who opened with a four ender and then barely hung on to win. If Koe maintains their game, their odds are pretty good.
Although I would generally agree with your comment regarding Koe and his team's play, I think there are shots in all the games that Team Koe has lost that first off, we don't expect him to miss and second, have contributed to the team losing the game, irrespective of how well the opposition curled.
The four ender that the Swiss scored in the first end was attributable to Hebert positioning his first two rocks poorly and then Koe throwing his last rock draw into the hack.
Koe has missed a number of slash doubles - almost all wide inturns and almost all narrow - that we are not used to him missing.
Even the USA game was more of a give away by Team Koe than being attributable to opposition good play. Don't misconstrue my comment - The USA team played very well, but if Canada doesn't mess up two or three shots in that game, the outcome is completely different.
If Koe is not at his normally outstanding best, and if the USA team plays like they did in the round robin game, I think the outcome will be undecided far later in the game than I will feel comfortable with...
I think if you sat down with Kevin over a beer and had a chat with him, he would make those same comments.
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02-21-18 05:52PM |
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Nine Ender
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2009
Location:
Posts: 338 |
quote: Originally posted by AlanMacNeill
You're making a couple of big assumptions there.
1. That Sweden gets past the tiebreak winner. Likely, but not guaranteed.
2. That Canada beats the US...there's already been one defeat there this Olympics, and Shuster's on a role...I fancy his chances.
I suspect given the playoff pressure and a chance to analyze how they lost to Shuster in the RR, they'll control possibly dominate the game next time out. I just don't see Shuster winning. Possible, yes, Likely, no. Koe is one of best clutch players in history.
It's a game though they are played for a reason. Congratulations to Team Shuster for being far, far better then most US champions and imprpving over several years.
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02-21-18 08:08PM |
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nelski
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068 |
Interesting head to head for Smith and deCruz. Almost even, but Smith came out ahead in recent Euros.
Precision by Swiss in 9th. Not sure if Smith had a different shot. WTG Hop Suisse. Good Luck.
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Last edited by nelski on 02-21-18 at 09:40PM
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02-22-18 07:03AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
Does anyone else see the Fred Flintstone in John Shuster?
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02-22-18 07:14AM |
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biterbar
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 695 |
quote: Originally posted by On The Nose
Does anyone else see the Fred Flintstone in John Shuster?
Nope.
Kennedy struggling early on.
Canada uses TO in the fifth.
Ed Luckovich on the U.S. stream makes it tough to stay awake.
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02-22-18 07:16AM |
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biterbar
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 695 |
quote: Originally posted by On The Nose
Does anyone else see the Fred Flintstone in John Shuster?
Nope.
Kennedy struggling early on.
Canada uses TO in the fifth.
Ed Luckovich on the U.S. stream makes it tough to stay awake.
Sweden spanking the Swiss.
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"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire"-Winston Churchill
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02-22-18 08:10AM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
Tough close stone on stone game between US and Canada through 7.
In the 8th, Koe blinks first and gives up a steal of 2.
That could be huge.
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02-22-18 08:45AM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
Shuster played that game perfectly.
Kept it close, forced the miss potential shots, and got the critical misses, and then nails the final nose hit to win.
USA vs Sweden for the Gold
Canada vs. Switzerland for the Bronze
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02-22-18 08:48AM |
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biterbar
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 695 |
Screw you ML, Shuster is in great shape and was the better man today.
Can't congratulate, only insult.
Played them shot for shot and Koe blinked first.
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Last edited by biterbar on 02-22-18 at 08:50AM
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02-22-18 08:54AM |
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albetts
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 1120 |
quote: Originally posted by biterbar
Screw you ML, Shuster is in great shape and was the better man today.
Can't congratulate, only insult.
Played them shot for shot and Koe blinked first.
Congrats US. Good game against Team Canada. Gold medal game up next. I don't think you're gonna do it but silver is still good. I hope Canada beats Switz but they did lose to them in the RR. Anyway, good luck to all.
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02-22-18 08:54AM |
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AlanMacNeill
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 1064 |
Ehh, I'm okay with ML's approbation and prediction...
Since he can't get anything right, him calling a Sweden walkover all but drapes the gold onto Shuster's neck.
Admittedly, I don't actually believe that, but ML is right about as often as the watch my parents gave me for graduation 30 years ago, which is broken in a drawer as a keepsake...and since it was digital, it doesn't even have that "stopped watch right twice a day" thing going for it.
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