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05-10-16 11:54AM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
Participation in Sports
Interesting article and easily applies to Curling...I see it in the inter-club junior leagues. A super Junior team that competes in cashspiels, provincials etc...meets a team of club level juniors and creams them with scores of 19-1. This could discourage further participation. The situation of Elites vs. Recreational is not confined to just curling.
CBC article
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05-10-16 12:37PM |
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Marc Bernard
Hitting Paint
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Elmira
Posts: 179 |
Neither team in that inter-club situation gets much benefit from playing that game. Separating elite from recreational teams might actually help keep the recreational teams playing.
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05-11-16 04:23AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
Nah... the main reason that kids are participating less in sports is quite easy to see: It's because of technology.
Technology - computers, the internet, cell phones, endless access to news/gossip/what have you, etc., etc. creates an environment where distraction is available 24 hours per day, every day. The virtual is quickly replacing the real.
On facebook, kids can customize who 'judges' them by weeding out people who criticize them, challenge them, etc. They can't do that in sports. And so the 'virtual world' is more 'easy' and 'convenient' than the real world - and it's marketed that way, as well. Of course, the virtual world doesn't build character nearly as well as real life... but, hey, these kids' parents are also caught in the trap of technological toys and 'virtual life' - too much to pay proper attention to their kids... and so there is no-one to guide the kids in a healthy direction.
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05-11-16 09:21AM |
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curlky
Drawmaster
Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 559 |
I think that technology does make a dent in participation, but I think it is also logistical issues. My parents were saints for me and my siblings (I didnt know it when I was a child though) I always had 2 to 3 thigns going at any given date, as did the rest of the children. And somehow my parents always got us to and from, and were there to watch, even though both worked. That is a huge burden for parents to carry, and I dont think that parents do that as much today. Many do, but there are far more burdens on parents now than in the past such as the economy not quite as strong so money is tough, safety rules about who can pick up your kids, etc.
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05-11-16 11:35AM |
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340 |
Good article which dovetails nicely with what I've said for years.
This continued obsession with winning is detrimental to sports. In BC we used to have junior programs full of happy kids, learning the game, forming their own teams, playing in Bonspiels (not cashspiels for kids), playdowns and-no matter how they did-acknowledged their efforts. Coaches worked with every kid in the program, not just a select few.
Now it's all backwards. In our ravenous hunger for medals, coaches hand pick teams, dump players mid season, and ignore the less talented kids-who are often just slower at development than others.
The end result? There were more teams in my last year of juniors in my zone, than entered Jr playdowns last year. And before you pro-elites crow that we're sending better teams, we're not. Our record over the past 20 years compared to the 20 before is dismal.
The bottom line is we're turning off kids after a season or two and they go somewhere else. And every kid we lose is a potential long term adult member of a club.
And you know what's really scary? The same thing is happening in adult levels to. Just look at participation levels around the country. Down everywhere.
When you take the fun out of any sport by making the focus winning, not participating, it's never a good thing.
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Last edited by jamcan on 05-11-16 at 11:44AM
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05-12-16 09:22AM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2668 |
Agreed JamCan. The old "technology has taken over" excuse is not valid. In my day, if kids could sit and watch tv all day they would. And there were lazy parents back then too. One thing my parents did was register us in a variety of activities with the goal of having fun, keeping active and participating in something. And to keep us out of trouble. I went to my high school reunion a few years ago...the kids whose parents made them do different activities did very well in life, those that didn't well...not so much.
Today's parents are different - I know kids who are pushed to be competitive to the point they don't really enjoy it. Yet my friend moved her child (who loves curling by the way) from a very competitive dance school to one that emphasizes the participation simply because her daughter wasn't very happy. This school made the kids do 25 push-ups if they missed a step in the routine! Fortunately, the daughter is curling in a club where the junior program isn't very competitive but she really loves the sport.
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05-12-16 01:49PM |
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AK267
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 1713 |
I find it fascinating that in my neck of the woods, things are looking up. Much akin to other arena-ice clubs, we don't have many aspirations for Olympic glory, just a desire to meet, play, have fun and go out for a beer afterwards.
I'm finding that out a lot as I travel to other curling regions in the U.S.
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05-12-16 02:16PM |
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curlinglove
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Bay City, Michigan
Posts: 58 |
Curling needs more diversity. Too bad our sport is written off as a old, rich white guy's game. At least that's what I hear from young athletes these days.
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05-13-16 01:07PM |
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Guest
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: .
Posts: 1844 |
Don't tell me ... you're a Bernie Sanders supporter too.
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05-16-16 02:38AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
I don't buy the "it's too competitive" argument for a second. If anything, things were going in the opposite direction for too long - with the horrible 'politically correct' movement making sure that no-one felt that they lost the game... everyone would get rewards for "participating", etc... in their little fantasy world where no-one should ever, under any circumstances, "feel bad".
My god - that is so obviously such a destructive approach, rendering kids spoiled and incapable of accepting defeat, and giving them a completely unrealistic view of how the world and life functions.
I've worked with kids of various ages over the past 2 decades. I have seen technology - and the reliance upon it - completely transform the world that kids in North American culture live in. It has changed the manner in which kids live, and it has changed the manner in which parents live. Very, very significantly.
Anyone who believes that technology has not hugely changed life over the past 25 years has been living on another planet.
It's beyond obvious.
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05-16-16 05:49PM |
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Alice
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 324 |
On the USA Arena Nationals thread, Alan MacNeill had some very interesting comments about participation and competition frpm what he saw at that event which concluded yesterday. Please read his comments.
I've heard about curling clubs closing in Canada but I've seen my own US arena club grow like crazy since 2006 thanks to Olympics TV coverage, a club culture welcoming to new curlers, and the surprising geek-chic popularity with the 20s and 30s-aged new curlers.
It's interesting to watch those younger new members quickly learn to stop constantly fiddling with their smart phones on the ice and at broomstacking afterwards. We have trouble attracting many teenagers thanks to the late evening ice times most arenas offer to curlers but many arena clubs are growing fast enough to get their own dedicated ice to have good ice times for teens.
I sincerely hope arena curling will stay fun and with wildly lopsided scoring as Alan wrote in that thread. Fun for all players - new and old, with delivery sticks, wheel curlers playing with non-wheelers, and citizenship mixes WCF would likely never allow. A commitment to fun for all instead of just chasing medals and elite-only teams at national levels.
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05-16-16 06:04PM |
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dugless_zone 13
Drawmaster
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990 |
quote: Originally posted by On The Nose
I don't buy the "it's too competitive" argument for a second. If anything, things were going in the opposite direction for too long - with the horrible 'politically correct' movement making sure that no-one felt that they lost the game... everyone would get rewards for "participating", etc... in their little fantasy world where no-one should ever, under any circumstances, "feel bad".
My god - that is so obviously such a destructive approach, rendering kids spoiled and incapable of accepting defeat, and giving them a completely unrealistic view of how the world and life functions.
I've worked with kids of various ages over the past 2 decades. I have seen technology - and the reliance upon it - completely transform the world that kids in North American culture live in. It has changed the manner in which kids live, and it has changed the manner in which parents live. Very, very significantly.
Anyone who believes that technology has not hugely changed life over the past 25 years has been living on another planet.
It's beyond obvious.
luckily we have that technology so we can complain about it.
( I do agree that it is a major distraction though)
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05-20-16 10:19AM |
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RockDoc
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 399 |
If there is a cautionary note, it is that there are many reasons individuals, juniors or adults, choose to curl. If our club is representative, about half our our members thrive on competition, and half curl mostly for fun and as a social outlet. To keep a diverse membership happy, you need to provide outlets for both populations. Most of our leagues are intrinsically competitive in structure, but rely on participation of members who are more on the "fun and social" side of the spectrum to run. This doesn't always work out so well.
Interestingly, what is perhaps our most popular league is run as a Schenkel, where teams are assigned at the beginning of the league and matched up each week against a team of similar skill and accomplishment. That is a recipe for fun: you have a competitive game every week, and if you catch fire, you might have a chance to win it all--but that's not the goal going in, it just happens if it happens, and the winning teams are sometimes surprisingly not the most "talented" individuals, but they are typically well-functioning teams.
As a competitor and as an educator I have a foot firmly in both camps. For me, nothing is more fun that competing at the highest level you can, with others who are similarly committed to excellence. On the other hand, playing in a league less focused on winning a championship, with perhaps new curlers to bring along and do the best you can against other, similarly mixed-experience teams, is also fun and a great way to help introduce newer curlers to the fun and beauty of the game. Clubs are well-served when their programs recognize the various motivations for members to participate.
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