Registered: Sep 2011
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So...this weekend we had the Olympic Playdowns...

One game went 11 ends, and ran over the allotted time...badly (about 40 minutes by my clock)...the other was a 4 end massacre and was shaken on after an hour, leaving 2 hours of effectively dead air.

These two extremes show how hard it can be to get curling on TV in America...American Broadcasters treasure Ratings and Consistency above all else...

Football rules the roost, but even they are pressured to make the games fit into a 3 hour slot...3:15 at the outside.

Baseball is the only timeless sport still commanding a reasonable rights fee, and they get pressured constantly to shave minutes from their games.

For curling, we've already gone to 10 ends from 12, and there is pressure to move to 8...the goal seems to be to compress a game into a 2 hour TV friendly block (2:30 with pre/postgame and allowance for extra end)

I, personally, think 10 ends should remain the Championship Length...it's long enough that a team that gives up a 4 can scrape and claw and come back, whereas in an 8 end game, give up a 4 and unless your opponents *really* screw up, you've lost.

So...how can we squeeze 10 ends into 135 minutes (let's assume they'd be okay with 2:15, you still have the 15 minutes for pre/postgame, and some of the pregame features could run during lead/2nd stones in the first couple ends), allow 12-15 minutes of commercials per hour on average, and still show a reasonable game?

A current 10 end game time budget runs something like this:

Each Team gets 73:00 on the clock - 146 minutes
Approximately 1:30 after ends 1-4, and 6-9 (30 seconds to agree on score and clear stones, 1:00 for the first stone to be delivered...this can vary significantly in case of measurement) - 12 minutes
5 Minute halftime break after end 5 - 5 minutes

That's 163 minutes for a full game...you'd have to squeeze out 28 minutes to get to 135 minutes...how would you do it while still maintaining a fair game?

From the other end of the spectrum...is there any way to guard against stuff like what happened Saturday? The final went just over an hour.

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Registered: Sep 2011
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I really dont want to see the brier, scotties and worlds moved to 8 ends..although i fear its inevitable. Your right 10 ends gives a team that gives a 4 in the 2nd end still plenty of time to recover. It might not seem like alot but those 2 extra ends make a world of difference.
If they were switched to 8 ends we would see alot of really lopsided scores like we do in the cash tour season and that wouldnt be good for anyone

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Registered: Feb 2013
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I really do not want to see 8 end games for championships but curling officials have already come up with mixed doubles [hate to even call that curling] to get more exposure so I would not be surprised if they change to 8 ends or does anything else that TV asks for

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Registered: Jan 2011
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Unfortunately in Canada they are not allowed to shake until after 9 ends.- tv contract, if there is no other game to switch to. We saw the farce at Kitchener of teams having to play when down by 6 or7.

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Registered: Feb 2005
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Eight ends game are the future in all competitions. Start getting your head wrapped around this.

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Registered: Mar 2009
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I don't think we need to overthink this. We will only get coverage during an Olympic year and NBC Sports can fill in the short games with Grand Prix racing or whatever is following. I think an annual broadcast of the Nationals is too much to ask or expect.

I can live with the live streaming by TESN the other three years.

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Registered: Sep 2011
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I disagree...

With 5+ Competing 24/7 Sports Networks (Admittedly, that's counting ESPN 1 and ESPN2 separately), we should be able to get at least *some* annual coverage of Nationals.

What I don't get is why NBC Sports Network doesn't want more, with their having an effective Olympic Monopoly for the next...forever...I'd think that anything they could do to build the "Road to Sochi" (or the "Path to Pyeongchang" starting next year, I guess).

Presumably it's the time issues, as aside from those, it's a no-brainer, easy to shoot, telestrator and commentator friendly, plenty of time to do ads if you're creative ("This Corner Guard is brought to you by the US Army, guarding all of the Corners of America for 225 years"...that kind of thing), an approachable enough game that the average spectator thinks "I could do that!", etc.

We're at least as solid of a market as Bowling, and that gets on ESPN 2 fairly regularly (let's not even discuss Poker...)

I think that if we could get a packageable product, we could be enough of a Niche Sport to get at least some good airtime.

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Registered: Feb 2012
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If not 8 end games, then they should at least require the teams to play 6 or 7 ends for these televised events. I totally understand why Pete ripped velcro (as we used to say), but it didn't help the sport any. Virtually no one comes back from being 7 down in an 18 hole match, but they play until they run out of holes.

Also, the crowds were pretty pathetic. I can only image the NBC execs weren't pleased to see such sparse attendance. Another reason to have it in a higher population area (Boston, NY, Chicago, Philly, Seattle, Minneapolis/St. Paul would have probably attracted more).

And good luck Shuster! Love to see a men's team at the Olympics.

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL (originally from Richmond, VA)
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In addition to curling I also follow Track & Field, swimming, football (the international variety), biathlon, badminton, and equestrian closely all months of the year, and I used to follow gymnastics and figure skating closely too. One thing that I have noticed with all sports is that it is rare, very rare, for a sport to change the rules or it's competitive format to suit television that doesn't damage the sport. Gymnastics and figure skating have eliminated compulsories which caused quality to suffer tremendously and badminton introduced rally scoring which makes it less physically demanding. The free guard zone rule is actually one of the few exceptions. The point: tread cautiously when adjusting the rules or choosing a new competitive format for television viewership.

The second point I'll make is that curling has actually done quite well without changing it's format. The WCF has made no significant changes since the sport's Olympic introduction and look how it has grown and developed. I can't speak as well to the rest of the world, but in the US curling's increased popularity has not been hindered by ten end matches.

I'm with bitebar regarding the use of TESN during non-Olympic seasons. Most Olympic sports are not mainstream, they are niche sports, and yet they survive just fine without the glare of television lighting for three year stretches.

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Registered: Sep 2002
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The WCF has put all rule changes on hold for two years. There will be a lot of discussion after the Olys on changes to rules. The most important one hopefully will be a change to thinking time timing. Which might actually make a game longer since teams will not have to worry about guards and draws taking 25 seconds.

Look for some changes after the Olys and possibly you might need to lose your stopwatch and homemade crutch.

JH

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Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:

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Originally posted by jhcurl


Look for some changes after the Olys and possibly you might need to lose your stopwatch and homemade crutch.

JH

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If you want to win a race run the 100m. If you want an experience run the marathon. - Emil Zatopek

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Registered: Feb 2013
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I had never thought about eliminating the use of stopwatches but... I like that idea. Make sweepers rely on their own judgment -- based on what they see on the ice rather than what they see on a watch. Why not??

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Registered: Mar 2009
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Agreed. One of the things I like about curling is that it's a game of touch and finesse--of feeling and judgment. No doubt, using a stopwatch effectively is an acquired skill, but it's not--IMO--a curling skill. It's a bit like Rodney Dangerfield's putter in Caddyshack--too much technology, not enough humanity.

No doubt I (and my trusty hair broom) am in the minority on this!

mf

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Registered: Mar 2013
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yeah take the stopwatches away. While we are at it. let's take the synthetic brushes away, the carbon fiber handles, the sensor stones.... come on... really.

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quote:

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Originally posted by hammerefficient
yeah take the stopwatches away. While we are at it. let's take the synthetic brushes away, the carbon fiber handles, the sensor stones.... come on... really.

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Registered: Dec 2005
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I'm certain that most sports add things frequently.

However, there is precedent for taking away the stopwatches. The earliest stopwatches were used by skips and they were taken away. Also taken away were team radios. Some skips once tried using whistles rather than yelling and that was ousted.

I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other on stopwatches. I do find the discussion interesting. I'm sure that you would find the impact on the games to be very slight. While the stopwatch is a tool, rare are the times when it can replace the sweepers' judgment. For the most part, they have become a tool to accurately communicate the speed of the ice or the weight of a takeout.

Ben Tucker

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Registered: Jan 2012
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quote:

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Originally posted by tuck
I'm sure that you would find the impact on the games to be very slight. While the stopwatch is a tool, rare are the times when it can replace the sweepers' judgment. For the most part, they have become a tool to accurately communicate the speed of the ice or the weight of a takeout.

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Registered: Dec 2005
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Found it interesting that during one of the Fenson, Shuster finals. Benson was talking about the time clocks and he says they blanked 4th and 5th ends to catch up on time, then he says that's pretty typical of todays 10 end games. And we need 10 ends why? The game will not only go to 8 ends it should.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Willy
Found it interesting that during one of the Fenson, Shuster finals. Benson was talking about the time clocks and he says they blanked 4th and 5th ends to catch up on time, then he says that's pretty typical of todays 10 end games. And we need 10 ends why? The game will not only go to 8 ends it should.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Willy
Found it interesting that during one of the Fenson, Shuster finals. Benson was talking about the time clocks and he says they blanked 4th and 5th ends to catch up on time, then he says that's pretty typical of todays 10 end games. And we need 10 ends why? The game will not only go to 8 ends it should.

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Registered: Jan 2012
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If we are talking about changes to the game to make it better for TV after the Olympics - how about getting rid of the blanked end or limit it to one per team? 4 in a row is painful to watch.

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"Blank the end, lose the hammer" has an appeal to me, I admit.

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as curling fans on the whole our ability to watch it on tv is fairly limited. So, yeah when a team blanks 4 ends in a row its frustrating. At some point glenn in his semi final might have considered taking his one and moving on

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Registered: Sep 2002
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Another change I believe will come up at the WCF. Second blank end in a row will lose hammer. Can't just be one, there is the "accidental" blank occasionally (says the guy who played 13 ends).

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Registered: Mar 2009
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Jeff, those blanks weren't your fault. You're still an idiot though for losing the game.

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