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03-15-15 07:01AM |
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IMWright
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 206 |
Women's Worlds 2015
Might as well be a thread for this.
Here we go again. 0-3 and haven't played Scotland, Sweden, or Canada yet... So at what point does USCA go back to the drawing board?
Last edited by IMWright on 03-15-15 at 07:04AM
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03-15-15 07:56AM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
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the US isnt playing well but then again literally no one is. the percentages make it seem that way but if you watch the actual games you'll see its been really low quality.
they do have to figure things out soon though
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03-15-15 08:10AM |
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IMWright
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2014
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quote: Originally posted by misty1
the US isnt playing well but then again literally no one is. the percentages make it seem that way but if you watch the actual games you'll see its been really low quality.
they do have to figure things out soon though
I have been watching. I guess the thing is that based on the past, to see Sweden 0-2 is a surprise. To see US 0-3 isn't a surprise. So if the US doesn't do well (again) will the excuse be it was just bad ice? Because it couldn't in any possible way be the HPP program...
What's more likely? The US now has an awesome powerhouse team (by sending the 3rd place team who did good at a bonspiel early on and happened to get enough OOM points to go to worlds) and is being brought down along with the other powerhouses (Canada, Sweden) because of the ice, or it's the same old, same old?
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03-15-15 08:18AM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
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you have a point. im just saying that right now no one is really doing well, its just who can make the fewest mistakes.
its only been 2 years since the HPP program was put into place so i dont think its time to panic yet. however if john shuster comes a long and medals at worlds while none of the HP teams could do it its going to look bad on them this year
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03-15-15 05:18PM |
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TNH
Hitting Paint
Registered: May 2011
Location:
Posts: 161 |
Yeah, tough start for the girls. I always liked playing the favorites early in tournaments, before they get comfortable and before they smell the prize. But the schedule is not working out well for Team USA. Not only are they 0-3, but they have only had the lead for 3 ends - and two of those are 1-0 jobs after the first.
No reason they can't play well starting tomorrow, and feel good winning a few in the sceond half of the draw.
As much as I dislike the HPP, I have nothing but good wishes for the athletes and their dreams! I know some of them and they are wonderful representatives of the US. I expect the shooting percentages of the lead and skip to keep getting back to what we know they can do. Good luck and good curling!
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03-15-15 08:56PM |
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AK267
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Omaha, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 1713 |
down 4-1 in the 4th.
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http://www.curlaksarben.com
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03-15-15 10:22PM |
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IMWright
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2014
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quote: Originally posted by southerncurler
0-4. Not even close against Eve. UGH...
It's gonna be a bumpy ride... #uscafail
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03-15-15 10:42PM |
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Alice
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2012
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Since the Team USA at Womens' Worlds was considered the HP Women's B Team.... how often did the distaff side HP staffer(s) now with them in Japan travel with them overseas in big games in the past few months compared to travelling with the A team? Been thinking of what should a coach be saying to them after a couple of days of what must be shattering results but I'm flummoxed because I don't know anyone personally on that team much less what what make them tick in clutch situations, especially when the stage is super big. Those who know them, what would you tell them?
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03-15-15 11:10PM |
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misty1
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Registered: Sep 2011
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well they basically can afford one more loss or its game over at this point and that means they have to figure out how to canada or sweden and at this point neither seems likely.and there are still other teams that will be tough like japan, denmark and finland
germany next is their most winnable game yet but it wont be easy either.
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03-15-15 11:52PM |
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TNH
Hitting Paint
Registered: May 2011
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What would you tell them? Whoa. Maybe let's get back to playing the way we want to and let the wins and losses take care of themselves? This week should be a special reward for a season of hard work. I didn't expect them to qualify, but I did expect them to be competitive.
The shooting percentages are grim - this 0-4 is not a matter of bad luck or strategy. With 12 teams, the skip is a distant 11th at 57% and the lead is 10th; the vice is T6 and second is T7 so they are right in there. As a team, they are 10th.
I don't know. They do drug testing at these things, can they go out for a heavy sake session?
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03-15-15 11:52PM |
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Stoner
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2013
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Posts: 614 |
quote: Originally posted by misty1
well they basically can afford one more loss or its game over at this point and that means they have to figure out how to canada or sweden and at this point neither seems likely.and there are still other teams that will be tough like japan, denmark and finland
germany next is their most winnable game yet but it wont be easy either.
Finland is more winnable than Germany IMO, but Norway are the most winnable.
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03-16-15 10:27AM |
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tuck
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: St. Thomas, North Dakota
Posts: 2613 |
This team did travel to Asia this year. Not as much travel budget as Nina's team, but still well prepped. Say what you will about the HPP staff and coaches (and I'm sure we'll be saying way too much in the very-near future), they are not idiots and they do love the game.
This terrible start is an indictment of something...maybe a few things. Coupled with Alyson's poor showing last year, I see it as nearly proving that sending someone other than our champion dooms the runners-up to unimpressive results. (dang, I hope this doesn't get dbsdbs going again). Curling is such a sport of confidence and momentum. Sending a team that may feel unworthy or not on top of their game may just be dooming them and us.
It will be interesting to talk to the girls and find out what they were feeling going into Worlds.
I find myself really feeling horrible for our girls. I thought it wouldn't bother me near as much because it does reflect very poorly on a High Performance Program that I do not like...but my dislike of the HPP (the program, not the people) is trumped by how much I like our curlers.
Face, Ty, Hammy, Lands...save us. Please.
Ben Tucker
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03-16-15 10:45AM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
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quote: Originally posted by tuck
This team did travel to Asia this year. Not as much travel budget as Nina's team, but still well prepped. Say what you will about the HPP staff and coaches (and I'm sure we'll be saying way too much in the very-near future), they are not idiots and they do love the game.
This terrible start is an indictment of something...maybe a few things. Coupled with Alyson's poor showing last year, I see it as nearly proving that sending someone other than our champion dooms the runners-up to unimpressive results. (dang, I hope this doesn't get dbsdbs going again). Curling is such a sport of confidence and momentum. Sending a team that may feel unworthy or not on top of their game may just be dooming them and us.
It will be interesting to talk to the girls and find out what they were feeling going into Worlds.
I find myself really feeling horrible for our girls. I thought it wouldn't bother me near as much because it does reflect very poorly on a High Performance Program that I do not like...but my dislike of the HPP (the program, not the people) is trumped by how much I like our curlers.
Face, Ty, Hammy, Lands...save us. Please.
Ben Tucker
im sure they do love the game Tuck. however the fact that the women did better at worlds before this program was put into place says something.
allison and erika both had top 5 finishes in back to back years at worlds. no they didnt get a medal but still a far better showing than these last 2 years.
what has happened at the olympics has scared the US federation, and i get that but they panicked and tried fixing it the wrong way.
the results under the program suck and its only going to make it look worse if shuster, a nun funded team actually gets a medal.
every program needs time but how long do you give it. do they abandon it if, in 3 years time the US flops at the olympics again or worse, doesnt even qualify
Last edited by misty1 on 03-16-15 at 10:50AM
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03-16-15 11:40AM |
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nom de broom
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Jan 2012
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quote: Originally posted by misty1
the results under the program suck and its only going to make it look worse if shuster, a nun funded team actually gets a medal.
Not much money there for Face and the guys, but hopefully it's well offset by the power of the novenas.
nom de broom
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03-16-15 11:51AM |
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lolar3288
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington
Posts: 638 |
Also consider bad ice favours bad teams. The fine shots are just too tricky to try.
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03-16-15 12:00PM |
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IMWright
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2014
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Posts: 206 |
quote: Originally posted by lolar3288
Also consider bad ice favours bad teams. The fine shots are just too tricky to try.
That doesn't seem to be helping thus far....
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03-16-15 12:03PM |
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misty1
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Sep 2011
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quote: Originally posted by lolar3288
Also consider bad ice favours bad teams. The fine shots are just too tricky to try.
is tnis a sarcastic remark or are you suggesting that canada, russia, switzerland and japan are bad teams
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03-16-15 12:05PM |
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IMWright
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2014
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Posts: 206 |
quote: Originally posted by misty1
is tnis a sarcastic remark or are you suggesting that canada, russia, switzerland and japan are bad teams
I interpreted it as bad ice helps to equalize things a bit, so the "bad" teams have a better chance against the typically "good" teams, the Canada's, Sweden's, etc., of the world. Doesn't mean that the "good" teams suddenly do bad.
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03-16-15 12:18PM |
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IMWright
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 206 |
quote: Originally posted by nom de broom
Not much money there for Face and the guys, but hopefully it's well offset by the power of the novenas.
nom de broom
Well, if you strictly look at the numbers, the women finished middle of the pack the past several years. If they were middle of the pack this year, no change, no conclusions really. But if there's a drop to last (I hope the women can pull stuff together to not end last, but thus far, they're last), that's a pretty significant change. What does that imply?
On the men's side, men were 3-8 last year, tied for 9th overall. If the US improves from last year, what does that imply?
(Yes I understand there's different teams from previous years and this year, but to make some comparison from year to year, you have to ignore this)
I'd say there's a decent chance that the men can do better than the US team last year. It depends on which Shuster shows up... But it's within the realm of their skill level to do better.
In general, with the men and women, if results are about the same as 2014, I guess you can't make any conclusions one way or the other on the performance of the HPP thus far. But if there's a big change one way or the other, I think it's reasonable that one can consider the HPP as a factor in that performance (be it good or bad; in the women's case, not so good thus far).
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03-16-15 02:37PM |
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 812 |
quote: Originally posted by tuck
This team did travel to Asia this year. Not as much travel budget as Nina's team, but still well prepped. Say what you will about the HPP staff and coaches (and I'm sure we'll be saying way too much in the very-near future), they are not idiots and they do love the game.
This terrible start is an indictment of something...maybe a few things. Coupled with Alyson's poor showing last year, I see it as nearly proving that sending someone other than our champion dooms the runners-up to unimpressive results. (dang, I hope this doesn't get dbsdbs going again). Curling is such a sport of confidence and momentum. Sending a team that may feel unworthy or not on top of their game may just be dooming them and us.
It will be interesting to talk to the girls and find out what they were feeling going into Worlds.
I find myself really feeling horrible for our girls. I thought it wouldn't bother me near as much because it does reflect very poorly on a High Performance Program that I do not like...but my dislike of the HPP (the program, not the people) is trumped by how much I like our curlers.
Face, Ty, Hammy, Lands...save us. Please.
Ben Tucker
First, I agree with you that I would love to see our teams do well, even thought I do not like the process. You make an interesting suggestion that sending a team other than the Nationals winner is a first step to bad results at Worlds. I do understand why HPP wants to try something different to get better results at the international level. I just think that the National Championship has to count for something more than do the points earned to get there. Use points to decide who gets to Nationals, fine -- but it really should require more than a 2nd or 3rd place finish there to go to Worlds.
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03-16-15 08:19PM |
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Par
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 407 |
As an expat American living in Canada and reading these threads, I feel great sympathy and frustration ... but I am also very impressed by the number of people who are bringing good ideas and calm wits to the discussion.
I wish you all the very best.
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03-17-15 01:21AM |
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ptg13
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2009
Location:
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Watching the USA v. Canadian game tonight.. is this the same lineup that beat Val Sweeting in November to earn the points?
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03-17-15 01:47AM |
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Gerry
CZ Founder
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002 |
Nice to see Russ Howard with some complimentary comments about the USA team, and their program and the process to try and rebuild the teams.
Being a World and Olympic Champion, he would have an idea of what it takes to compete at the top of the game.
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03-17-15 02:36AM |
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peteski
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 631 |
Remember, Sormunen was tied at the top of the round robin standings at Nationals. Erika Brown may indeed have a better team, but it's not that much better. How much better do people think she would do? My guess is midpack at best. This is why the HPP makes sense to me.
I agree with most people that sending the winner of Nationals is better, but the most likely way to get teams up to the level at the top at worlds is to develop semi-professional teams. If you're program is doing it's job, these teams should eventually be able to win Nationals on their own merit.
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