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03-16-14 05:17PM |
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The source I have says Koe is going to drop the Team Canada exemption to pick up these players.
The thought of Simmons, Thiessen and Middaugh may not be so out in left field..
Players say CCA is looking at a resident rule change where only 3 of the 4 players have to be residents of the Province
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03-16-14 05:26PM |
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doubletakeout
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Interesting to see how the Team Canada concept fits in with the new relegation round. There was talk during the last 2 Olympic trials that if the current STOH title holder (JJ in 2009, RH in 2013) won the trials, then the runner-up from that STOH would be given the Team Canada position in their place (Marla Mallett in 2009, JJ in 2013).
Now that there's a relegation round in place, I'd like to see the following rule instead:
Should Team Canada (or 3 out of the 4 returning members) be unable to claim their Team Canada exemption (either through Olympic participation, the team splits up, or choose to forego the spot), then there will be no Team Canada for that year's Brier/STOH and 2 teams will advance from the relegation round to the main draw.
I'm just bringing this up because of the strange situation of the Brier's first-ever Team Canada occurring next year, and the possibility that 3/4 Team Koe members might not be together for it! It'd be strange to see Jim Cotter there as Team Canada, particularly if Morris is no longer with them!
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03-16-14 05:51PM |
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Camdon
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quote: Originally posted by doubletakeout
Interesting to see how the Team Canada concept fits in with the new relegation round. There was talk during the last 2 Olympic trials that if the current STOH title holder (JJ in 2009, RH in 2013) won the trials, then the runner-up from that STOH would be given the Team Canada position in their place (Marla Mallett in 2009, JJ in 2013).
Now that there's a relegation round in place, I'd like to see the following rule instead:
Should Team Canada (or 3 out of the 4 returning members) be unable to claim their Team Canada exemption (either through Olympic participation, the team splits up, or choose to forego the spot), then there will be no Team Canada for that year's Brier/STOH and 2 teams will advance from the relegation round to the main draw.
I'm just bringing this up because of the strange situation of the Brier's first-ever Team Canada occurring next year, and the possibility that 3/4 Team Koe members might not be together for it! It'd be strange to see Jim Cotter there as Team Canada, particularly if Morris is no longer with them!
What if Simmons and Thiessen pick up Middaugh and TBA and have Rycroft as their 5th? Does that constitute a 3/4 players returning as team Canada
If all of this is true it will be a completely different look to Ontario curling with Team Howard disbanded.. Who does Glenn pick up?
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03-16-14 06:09PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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Team Canada
With so many teams splitting up after the run for the Olympics, ask yourself how far down the teams would they go keep a Team Canada. In an imperfect world maybe it goes all the way to NS at 0-11 as the only team still intact from the previous Brier.
If the winning team breaks up or retires or does not play the following year, nobody should be rewarded the Team Canada exemption. Add a team coming out of the relegation instead.
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03-16-14 06:36PM |
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nelsosi
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quote: Originally posted by Unregistered
Just heard from a reliable source...
Brent Laing has left Team Howard and is joining Team Koe with Marc Kennedy and Ben Hebert.
Interesting. If true, I'm guessing Marc moves up to 3rd?
How is Brent going to meet Alberta residency requirements?
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03-16-14 07:31PM |
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decade
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quote: Originally posted by nelsosi
Interesting. If true, I'm guessing Marc moves up to 3rd?
How is Brent going to meet Alberta residency requirements?
The same way Pat did. Must be easy to get a weed man job in AB.
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03-16-14 07:47PM |
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quote: Originally posted by nelsosi
Interesting. If true, I'm guessing Marc moves up to 3rd?
How is Brent going to meet Alberta residency requirements?
The same way that John Morris did :D
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03-16-14 07:57PM |
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so the Brier decides that they will allow a team Canada in next year and the team that would have been Canada wont even be eligible for it
what a farse that is
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03-16-14 08:54PM |
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Atlantic Canada
From a reliable source here on the East Coast- Casey, Walker, and Gallant are likely to be skipped by NS Brier rep Jamie Murphy (who announced his team will be disbanding) next season. Gushue is apparently moving West, but people are tight-lipped about who he's going to. I'd expect an announcement in the coming weeks.
If this is true, could be a real game-changer.
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03-16-14 08:59PM |
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misty1
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Re: Atlantic Canada
quote: Originally posted by Unregistered
From a reliable source here on the East Coast- Casey, Walker, and Gallant are likely to be skipped by NS Brier rep Jamie Murphy (who announced his team will be disbanding) next season. Gushue is apparently moving West, but people are tight-lipped about who he's going to. I'd expect an announcement in the coming weeks.
If this is true, could be a real game-changer.
interesting. Well people have been saying gushue should move west if he wants to realize his brier dreams for a while now so..
educated guesses would be martin , maybe an epping and gushue hook up in Ontario as Gerry said was rumoured.
I have to admit I never saw the murphy hook up with that team coming.
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03-16-14 09:58PM |
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Re: Re: Atlantic Canada
quote: Originally posted by misty1
interesting. Well people have been saying gushue should move west if he wants to realize his brier dreams for a while now so..
educated guesses would be martin , maybe an epping and gushue hook up in Ontario as Gerry said was rumoured.
I have to admit I never saw the murphy hook up with that team coming.
Given the new residency rules, I wonder if they'd play out of NS or PEI?
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03-16-14 11:33PM |
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CG
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Heard from a source Team Koe isn't giving up there spot at Brier/CanadaCup/ContCup.
Carter will play the 3 main events with Simmons/Thiessen so they meet the 3/4 rule, and they will be looking for a 4th player. Options likely to be : Howard, Mcewen, Middaugh, Morris, Stoughton or bring Kmart out of retirement for one last shot at a Brier.
Gushue hunting for new team, as Stoughton and Mcewen both also looking at line up changes.
Wil be great once all the dust is settled and we know all the new line ups. Fun time of year!
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03-17-14 12:06AM |
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Re: Re: Atlantic Canada
quote: Originally posted by misty1
interesting. Well people have been saying gushue should move west if he wants to realize his brier dreams for a while now so..
educated guesses would be martin , maybe an epping and gushue hook up in Ontario as Gerry said was rumoured.
I have to admit I never saw the murphy hook up with that team coming.
Hahahahahaha. Kidding right? Gushues team without gushue? Plus Jamie Murhpy?! H ahahahah. Is a worse than 0-11 record possible? Oh wait. They likely won't make it out of relegation. Phew. I thought I'd have to watch even more horrid curling. Oh wait. NS wasn't a feature TSN game so we were all spared embarrassment.
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03-17-14 12:06AM |
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JB42
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I would be very surprised if Wayne was playing with anyone but Glenn next year. They curled together with Russ at the beginning of Wayne's career. And even after Wayne left to skip his own team they remained fast friends. Hanging out in the summer on Georgian Bay and even before getting together for a second go around they curled together with their wives in their local major league.
In addition Wayne knows how much more fun winning is. Having the years in the 'wilderness' to contrast with his recent run with Glenn and his previous brilliant runs at skip and second.
I would not however be surprised if he decided to hang them up. He has a great job and from what I understand he may have to choose between it and curling full time.
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03-17-14 01:36AM |
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You're kidding right? Did you see Brads brier stats this year? Then the stats of his team? I think walker was 3rd overall for leads at the brier? And did you watch the slam this week? Again CASEY and WALKER played lights out. I think their weak spot is at third position.. However I believe Gallant is better then Casey and should move into second and pull in someone like Morris to play Third. Just my opinion.
From reliable source, Gushue not heading west, but team may be making some changes.
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03-17-14 07:21AM |
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At the Brier and the recent National slam I noticed Gallant was more forth coming and offered up his opinion more compared to pre 2014 and last year. Perhaps he knows he is not curling with Gushue next year and he doesn't need to be subservient to Gushue anymore and he is free to be himself and give input
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03-17-14 08:00AM |
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quote: Originally posted by CG
Heard from a source Team Koe isn't giving up there spot at Brier/CanadaCup/ContCup.
Carter will play the 3 main events with Simmons/Thiessen so they meet the 3/4 rule, and they will be looking for a 4th player. Options likely to be : Howard, Mcewen, Middaugh, Morris, Stoughton or bring Kmart out of retirement for one last shot at a Brier.
Gushue hunting for new team, as Stoughton and Mcewen both also looking at line up changes.
Wil be great once all the dust is settled and we know all the new line ups. Fun time of year!
I thought McEwen was leaving his lineup alone
Okay so Koe is giving up his team Canada priveleges but the team isn't?
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03-17-14 10:26AM |
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JB42
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Hatched a plot?
No one is 'hatching' any plots in this scenario.
The truth, as usual, is far more prosaic.
This is my best guess from the unconfirmed information I've read so far.
Previous to this Brier Koe made plans to move on to a different line-up for the next Olympic cycle. At that time they were not Brier champs with an automatic berth to next year's Brier.
Now that they are Team Canada circumstances have changed. I.e. In order to keep Team Canada they need 3 of 4. So Carter is willing to do them the solid of taking the required time out of his life to allow Simmons, Thiessen, to keep the berth.
Meanwhile Koe had previously committed so that was written in stone Brier or no Brier. My guess would be that he is thrilled to be able to give this going away present to his really good friends of many years.
Now we don't know who that Koe line-up is, or at least I don't.
But we can of course speculate. The first thing we know logically is that if these three are staying together then Koe needs three new players.
The next thing we know is that Team Koe has been a top five team for a number of years. More recently moving into top three status. Winning 2 Briers and being in three finals in the last five Briers. As well as winning a couple of Slams. This is Jeff Stoughton level of good. Aka. Really, really good.
So if that was breaking up we know that Koe would want an upgrade if he could get it.
The only two player combo that I see fitting that bill is Kennedy and Hebert. And now that Glenn let the cat out of the bag that his Team won't be the same, and Jen has a great job in Winnipeg.........I'd guess that Laing will be the fourth on this team.
What can you say about this line-up other than 'Yowza'! That is a team that is going to put a whole lot of hurt on the opposition.
Who will Simmons, Thiessen and Carter get to skip? Some have suggested Middaugh. I don't see it. Aside from Gushue you don't get much closer to an autoberth to the Brier than Glenn. So an autoberth would be little incentive. So that he can skip? I may be wrong but I doubt that would be a consideration at all. At the highest level it is well understood that every position is important and what turns their crank is not what position they play but winning.
Kevin Martin would be the most logical fit by far. He lives in Alberta if not in Calgary and as we saw at the Trials his skills are undiminished. If Koe could win the Brier with this line-up so too can Martin. The only reason I can see for these four not coming together would have to be chemistry issues.
Last edited by JB42 on 03-17-14 at 10:30AM
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03-17-14 11:03AM |
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Re: Hatched a plot?
quote: Originally posted by JB42
No one is 'hatching' any plots in this scenario.
The truth, as usual, is far more prosaic.
This is my best guess from the unconfirmed information I've read so far.
Previous to this Brier Koe made plans to move on to a different line-up for the next Olympic cycle. At that time they were not Brier champs with an automatic berth to next year's Brier.
Now that they are Team Canada circumstances have changed. I.e. In order to keep Team Canada they need 3 of 4. So Carter is willing to do them the solid of taking the required time out of his life to allow Simmons, Thiessen, to keep the berth.
Meanwhile Koe had previously committed so that was written in stone Brier or no Brier. My guess would be that he is thrilled to be able to give this going away present to his really good friends of many years.
Now we don't know who that Koe line-up is, or at least I don't.
But we can of course speculate. The first thing we know logically is that if these three are staying together then Koe needs three new players.
The next thing we know is that Team Koe has been a top five team for a number of years. More recently moving into top three status. Winning 2 Briers and being in three finals in the last five Briers. As well as winning a couple of Slams. This is Jeff Stoughton level of good. Aka. Really, really good.
So if that was breaking up we know that Koe would want an upgrade if he could get it.
The only two player combo that I see fitting that bill is Kennedy and Hebert. And now that Glenn let the cat out of the bag that his Team won't be the same, and Jen has a great job in Winnipeg.........I'd guess that Laing will be the fourth on this team.
What can you say about this line-up other than 'Yowza'! That is a team that is going to put a whole lot of hurt on the opposition.
Who will Simmons, Thiessen and Carter get to skip? Some have suggested Middaugh. I don't see it. Aside from Gushue you don't get much closer to an autoberth to the Brier than Glenn. So an autoberth would be little incentive. So that he can skip? I may be wrong but I doubt that would be a consideration at all. At the highest level it is well understood that every position is important and what turns their crank is not what position they play but winning.
Kevin Martin would be the most logical fit by far. He lives in Alberta if not in Calgary and as we saw at the Trials his skills are undiminished. If Koe could win the Brier with this line-up so too can Martin. The only reason I can see for these four not coming together would have to be chemistry issues.
the question is why do simmon, thiessen and Rycroft need to find a skip? pat simmons could very easily skip that team and they'd need to find a 3rd. Charley Thomas might be a good fit if they want to look inside province
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03-17-14 12:21PM |
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I think you're all crazy. Koe needs to keep 3 of 4. So they drop Simmons. Rycroft stays in original line up on paper. Koe gets Hebert and Kennedy. So now it looks like this:
Theissen
Rycroft
Kennedy
Koe
5th: Hebert
When they play, Rycroft can't make it so their 5th steps in. Now it looks like this:
Hebert
Theissen
Kenney
Koe
This was what I heard the plan was prior to the Brier with Rycroft leaving. Now that Koe won, it did put a wrench in it, but there is that loop hole.
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03-17-14 12:34PM |
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misty1
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The Morris flaming will never end if that's true. Im sure he doesn't care but my god some people on here will never shut up about him .
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03-17-14 01:16PM |
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JB42
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Why Martin as skip for Team Canada?
The only reason I can see for Koe to break up one of the three best teams in curling over the last three years is so that he can create the most dominant team in curling for the foreseeable future.
To do this, to break away from a very competitive pack, he's looked at how to create the best team possible given all available players.
Given who's out there the best team possible for Team Canada is to add Martin. Full stop. Glenn is not available. His life is in Ontario, and skirting the spirit of the Brier just ain't in him. If the players of Team Canada have other considerations that take priority over excellence that is of course their prerogative.
Koe on the other hand did what is so very difficult to do. Take a very good team. Heck one of the best in the world. In order to create a team that can potentially do what Team Martin did for a four year stretch. I.e. Dominate a very competitive field. Aka. A mitt full of Grand Slams, a couple of Briers and an Olympic Gold. Arguably the best four year stretch ever. (Actually I don't think it's arguable but, heck, these folks at CZ will argue anything....lol.....)
And while we are talking about best teams and the amount of change coming down the pike.
The best team over the last year has obviously been Jacobs. And there is no change there except that they may find out just how difficult it is to dominate this pack the year after their breakthrough. Their first Slam was certainly underwhelming. Though that is of course understandable. Let's give them the off season to recharge their batteries and judge it after next year's Brier and The National GS.
The best team over the last two and a bit has without a doubt been Team Howard. Brier win 2012, 1 World Championship, #1 in the Brier RR 2013, 4 of the last 7 Grand Slams. Heck Koe hasn't won 4 in his career while Stoughton has four in his entire career. Team Howard also has 6 of the last 10 the best 10 Slam stretch in history.
Team Howard as we know from Glenn on TV at The National are not staying together. The first skip to say so publicly. That he was first to talk openly about the changes coming is no surprise to me.
Some won't talk about it because they fear messing with team chemistry with a couple of Slams left. Others won't talk about it because there are bruised feelings cause the change wasn't handled as well as it could have been.
The reason it was so easy for Glenn to talk about it publicly is the same reason these guys are my favourite team out there. I.e. Chemistry, camaraderie, maturity, and the proper sense of priorities.
There is no doubt that at every step of the way they let each other know what they were thinking. There is also no doubt that regardless of what each of them decides they want the best for each other. They understand that the honour system and values of friendship transcend curling accomplishments.
Yes when they are on the ice they want to make every shot as badly as anyone else. But when one of them misses a shot, or three, or has a bad game or even a bad tournament, even if that costs them the championship, it's o.k. They know that the same guy has won games and championships for them before and will do so again. At the very least they know if they want the best chance of that being true then they better have his back in bad times as well as good. This is what every sport psychologist will tell you, and is in fact precisely what they are today telling every team out there. Team Glenn Howard, in large part just because of who Glenn is, has always done it this way.
There is no team that displays less acrimony on the ice in curling. Though Team McEwen is starting to display the same maturity and when Team Howard moves on they will very likely be the ones I take to rooting for that reason. Yes they are going through a really hard to endure stretch. Losing four Manitoba finals in a row. Losing 7 of 9 finals in one stretch over the last year on the WCT. Hell Glenn lost the Olympic Trials Finals, a Brier Final, a Brier 1 v 2 game, and four Grand Slam finals while Team Martin was on their rampage. (not to mention 7 Brier Finals in his career)
The essential point one needs to take from both of these cases is THEY WERE IN ALL THOSE FINALS. How many Team Keane, Team Epping, Team Fowler, Team Balsdon, Team Cotter, Team Laycock, Team Menard, Team Grattan, etc, wouldn't take that outcome in a heartbeat.
And after all those really tough beats what has Team Howard done? Only pulled off the best two year, and best three year stretch in the history of the Grand Slams against the best fields in curling. Way tougher than the Brier fields, way way tougher than the World's fields, tougher even than the Trials field. A truth we saw playing out in real time again this weekend. Who was playing the tie-breaker for the 8th and final spot in the playoffs of The National? Only the current Brier winner and the current World Champion. (Koe v Edin)
If Team McEwen is the team that I think they are we will see them over the next few years rival Team Koe in the way that Team Howard rivaled Team Martin over the last 14 years. I sincerely doubt either them will be up to the kind of sustained excellence that Glenn and Kevin managed over such a long period. (and that was the second half of Glen's career) But then being great is pretty damn good. There can only be one greatest. And even I will admit who that is, is very much open to debate.
Last edited by JB42 on 03-17-14 at 01:20PM
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