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W: Home Again Curling Classic
Listowel, ON
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: QF -- Sun, Nov 27 -- 10:00am ET
Brandwood  
Burns  
Rizzo  
Deschene  
Rozon  
Howard  
Armstrong  
Croisier  
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: 50th Mile Zero Cash Spiel
Dawson Creek, BC
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Draw: 9 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 9:45pm PT
Ginter Final
Kleiter (8)
DeJong Final
Webb (EE)
Veiner Final
Norman (EE)
W: Regina Highland SWCT Event
Regina, SK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 8:30pm CT
Ackerman Final
Holland (EE)
Emberley Final
Tisdale (6)
Barker 10  Final
Blais (EE)
Mitchell Final
Hamon (6)
Martin Final
Orsted (4)
Stevenson Final
Ricci (4)
M: Challenge de Curling Desjardins
Clermont, QC
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: QF -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 9:30pm ET
Epping 10  Final
Purcell (EE)
Skanes Final
Roberge (5)
Asselin Final
Flemming (7)
Sato Final
Desjardins (8)
M: Jim Sullivan Curling Classic
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 14 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 8:30pm AT
Thompson Final
Kennedy (8)
Tallon Final
Sullivan (6)
Smeltzer Final
Marin (7)
Eldridge 10  Final
Lister (5)
M: Stu Sells Cookstown Classic
Cookstown, ON
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 9:00pm ET
Foster Final
Champ (8)
Kean Final
Pearce (5)
W: Jim Sullivan Curling Classic
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 14 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 8:30pm AT
Kelly Final
MacPhail (6)
: Okotoks U20 Bonspiel
Okotoks, AB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 8:00pm MT
Crough Final
Wipf (7)
Ballance Final
Duncan (7)
: 50th Mile Zero Cashspiel Challenge
Dawson Creek, BC
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 8 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 7:30pm PT
Young Final
Richardson 11  (5)
Bruce Final
Godberson (4)
Doepker 12  Final
Adams (7)
Warr Final
Luckwell (8)
Patterson Final
Lind (8)
Miller Final
Brust (6)
: Okotoks U20 Bonspiel
Okotoks, AB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 5 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 4:30pm MT
Northwood Final
Yurko (6)
McMahon Final
Desormeau (8)
Johnston Final
Abbs (5)
Snideman Final
Martens (8)
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11-26-22 10:00AM
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Martym
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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So Denmark will the gold in the women's and Scotland win a close final in the men's with a Bruce Mouat final end special by 5-4.

So happy for Madeleine Dupont - her last European final was 20 years ago when she won silver. Shows that perseverance eventually pays off.

Last edited by Martym on 11-26-22 at 10:16AM

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11-26-22 10:00AM
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Dangermouse
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BRUCE. MOUAT.

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11-26-22 10:17AM
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Men's final was good, almost ruined by Recast's stream quality. My connection is fine and it was stuttering and stopping all through the second half.

I was looking back through results over the years and this seems to be the first time ever that Sweden have come away with nothing.

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11-26-22 11:45AM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by misty1
But you will never, ever convince me that DSC is a fair ay to eliminate teams from a major event.

As others have explained, DSC was not involved in SCO women making playoff.

A lot of people, still to this day, have misconception about DSC, which actually is the last resort lowest priority tiebreaker in WCF. It's so low priority that it may not even give you hammer even if it gave you higher rank.

Case in point, at 2022 Alberta provincial final, there was 3-way rock-paper-scissors tie for playoff spots, and Casey Scheidegger got #1 spot and bye to the final via DSC. Laura Walker had to win semifinal to reach the final, but she got hammer/LSFE when she rematched Scheideger because Walker beat Scheidegger in round robin.

People went crazy, "How can you be ranked #1 and got a bye to the final but not start the game with hammer??? This is insane!!!", etc, but that's the way it's supposed to be, in my opinion, because believe it or not, winning games is still more important than DSC.

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11-26-22 12:31PM
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Alvin
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In the B group the LIthuanian ladies won the first medal ever for that country. There is no curling rink in Lithuania. So well done to them.

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11-26-22 12:58PM
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curlingclips
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I think I was wrong that Sophie Jackson is "Soph" and Sophie Sinclair is "Sinc", because I just heard Sophie Jackson calling Sophie Sinclair "Soph".

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11-26-22 01:31PM
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Alright, look. I really don't care how Scotland got the 4th spot. You will never convince me that any way other than playing an actual tiebreaker a fair to decide how gets the final spot. Let me just make that clear

If cashspiels can find time in the schedule for tiebreakers than major international competitions should be able to

Not trying to takeaway from Scotland. They earned their bronze but I would have preferred tiebreakers be played rather than DSC or h2h deciding it

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11-26-22 02:52PM
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oliviertoisel
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Scotland flopped their way into an Olympic gold, too. That's just women's curling. Other than Tirinzoni at the Worlds there is no such thing as "best", just "winner".

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11-26-22 03:37PM
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old david
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Just the two double run backs then

Best Scottish team in my lifetime. And I go back to Willie Young. Two double run backs in a row in the tenth. They sure shoot their way out of a lot of stupid.

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11-26-22 10:21PM
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hailstone
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quote:
Originally posted by misty1
Alright, look. I really don't care how Scotland got the 4th spot. You will never convince me that any way other than playing an actual tiebreaker a fair to decide how gets the final spot. Let me just make that clear

In the real world, practicality needs to be taken into account. What you can do easily in a specialized curling center may not be the same as what can be reasonably done in an arena repurposed for a major curling event.

Nobody is forcing any of the teams to participate. If any of them feel strongly enough about the use of tiebreaking criteria over tiebraking games, they can choose not to go, and let another team that will agree to the rules go in their place.

And what makes a tiebreaker the ultimate in fairness anyway? If Team A beats Team B in the round-robin, then why is it fair that Team A should be forced to beat them again to prove their superiority in said round-robin?

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11-26-22 10:44PM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by hailstone
In the real world, practicality needs to be taken into account.

A lot of Canadians believe curling is more important than real world.

In WCF, if you run out of time, you lose. The real world clock on the wall decides the result of the game of curling.

In Curling Canada, if you run out of time, you can still win, depending on what's happening on the ice, where the rocks are, what the scoreboard says, how many rocks are left, etc. In other words, in Canada, curling is more important than real world.

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11-26-22 10:45PM
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One thing that I think would help reduce the usage of tiebreakers is eliminating the extra end in round robin play. If you're tied after 10 ends, the game ends in a draw. The introduction of ties would decrease the odds of two or more teams finishing with identical records. Though in this case, none of the four tied teams had an extra end game, so it sadly undermines my own argument.

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11-26-22 10:52PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hailstone
One thing that I think would help reduce the usage of tiebreakers

I think bidding on thinking time can help reduce the role of DSC.

Instead of giving each team 38 minutes of thinking time to play 10 ends of curling, each team make their own bids on what their thinking time should be on a game-by-game basis, maximum 38 minutes, but can be lower.

So if head-to-head can't decide, like in a rock-paper-scissors 3-way tie, they can sum their total thinking time bids and rank them from which team had the lowest bid total to most.

I think you can even eliminate extra ends this way. If score is tied after 10 ends, the team that bid for less thinking time wins.

This might also reduce instances of both teams cooperating to blank a few ends to bank time. Because one team starts with less time on the clock, that team has higher risk of running out of time, so the opposition may not be so cooperative in blanking a few early ends.

If all teams find this system is stupid, they can all basically opt out of it by always bidding maximum 38 minutes for every game, and everything would be exactly the same as before, no harm done.

If, as I suspect, some teams can really benefit from this system, then that's where the fun begins.

Last edited by curlingclips on 11-26-22 at 11:13PM

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11-26-22 11:50PM
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hailstone
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips

I think bidding on thinking time can help reduce the role of DSC.


I don't like that idea, because nobody can predict how the flow of a game will go (i.e. how much thinking time is appropriate) in advance. This is gambling, not skill.

Like Blitz Chess, Blitz Curling is another option that could be pursued, but should be classified as a different type of the sport altogether.

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11-27-22 12:28AM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by hailstone
This is gambling, not skill.

I disagree.

We can implement this bidding system, then let teams opt out by bidding maximum 38m until they're comfortable bidding less. The highly motivated teams would improve their skill of thinking and playing faster, maybe requiring only 37m30s (-30s) next season.

I agree blitz is very different than classical chess, but that also involves magnitudes of difference in time (90 minutes vs 3 minutes). It's not blitz curling if you just shave off 30 seconds here and there. I don't expect any team to bid something outrageously low like only 10 minutes of thinking time, that would be dumb, but I can see some teams going down to 35 minutes for some games, for example.

We can reduce the consequence of running out of time if instant loss is too much. We can say that if you run out of time, you must deliver each of your rock within 5 seconds, otherwise the rock is burned. At that point, yeah, it's essentially blitz curling, but that's a separate thing from the bidding system. Personally I think we can still stick to the current WCF consequence of instant loss, and just expect teams to make smart informed bid according to their skill level of time management and fast thinking.

Keep in mind also that this is just for tiebreaker (lower priority than head-to-head but higher priority than DSC). It shouldn't drastically change the game, unless we also use it to eliminate extra end, which is a separate topic.

Consider that WCF has shown its hand that it wants to speed up the game, as evidenced by their thinking-time-per-end proposal, which they withdrew after backlash. The beauty of this bidding system is that teams can opt out (by always bidding maximum), it's not forced upon them, but I think eventually teams will get better and better and play faster and faster, and at that point WCF may no longer have concerns with pace of play. The team themselves will voluntarily improve their pace of play by putting lower bids, and that's a much better solution than WCF imposing something unto the teams that they have no choice but to accept.

Last edited by curlingclips on 11-27-22 at 01:23AM

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11-27-22 01:31AM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by hailstone
nobody can predict how the flow of a game will go (i.e. how much thinking time is appropriate) in advance

Correct, but the self-correcting nature of the system means that it will eventually find its equilibrium.

Currently WCF gives 38 minutes for 10 ends. Do we know for sure that this is the correct/ideal number? Not really. It's just a number that someone in WCF decided, hopefully informed by data, but it's WCF's decision nonetheless.

If we instead let teams decide by bidding their own thinking time, maybe we will see a gradual decrease. Maybe by 2026, 37 minutes is more than enough for the most competitive teams! Maybe by 2030, it goes down to 35 minutes on average, but then some brainiac skip will figure out that they can beat those teams if they have 38 minutes!

The system is self-correcting. Let the teams figure it out on their own.

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11-27-22 08:16AM
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Observer
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No, that sounds like gambling to me too. I’d vote against it, if I had a vote.

I like head to head as the first tiebreaker. DSC is fine for determining 1st hammer in a single game, but it makes for a lousy standings tiebreaker because it feels so unlike the main game of curling. I would prefer there be another step or two be inserted between head to head and DSC to make DSC a true last resort. Second resort isn’t last enough for me.

What could those be? Well, in my baseball league, after head-to-head we look at total runs allowed next, and then total runs scored. In curling you’d have to use average per end values rather than absolute values to account for games that end early or games that run long, but that’s easy enough.

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Curling Scores

W: Home Again Curling Classic
Listowel, ON
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: QF -- Sun, Nov 27 -- 10:00am ET
Brandwood  
Burns  
Rizzo  
Deschene  
Rozon  
Howard  
Armstrong  
Croisier  
: 50th Mile Zero Cash Spiel
Dawson Creek, BC
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 9 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 9:45pm PT
Ginter Final
Kleiter (8)
DeJong Final
Webb (EE)
Veiner Final
Norman (EE)
W: Regina Highland SWCT Event
Regina, SK
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 8:30pm CT
Ackerman Final
Holland (EE)
Emberley Final
Tisdale (6)
Barker 10  Final
Blais (EE)
Mitchell Final
Hamon (6)
Martin Final
Orsted (4)
Stevenson Final
Ricci (4)
M: Challenge de Curling Desjardins
Clermont, QC
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: QF -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 9:30pm ET
Epping 10  Final
Purcell (EE)
Skanes Final
Roberge (5)
Asselin Final
Flemming (7)
Sato Final
Desjardins (8)
M: Jim Sullivan Curling Classic
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 14 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 8:30pm AT
Thompson Final
Kennedy (8)
Tallon Final
Sullivan (6)
Smeltzer Final
Marin (7)
Eldridge 10  Final
Lister (5)
M: Stu Sells Cookstown Classic
Cookstown, ON
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 9:00pm ET
Foster Final
Champ (8)
Kean Final
Pearce (5)
W: Jim Sullivan Curling Classic
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 14 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 8:30pm AT
Kelly Final
MacPhail (6)
: Okotoks U20 Bonspiel
Okotoks, AB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 6 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 8:00pm MT
Crough Final
Wipf (7)
Ballance Final
Duncan (7)
: 50th Mile Zero Cashspiel Challenge
Dawson Creek, BC
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 8 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 7:30pm PT
Young Final
Richardson 11  (5)
Bruce Final
Godberson (4)
Doepker 12  Final
Adams (7)
Warr Final
Luckwell (8)
Patterson Final
Lind (8)
Miller Final
Brust (6)
: Okotoks U20 Bonspiel
Okotoks, AB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 5 -- Sat, Nov 26 -- 4:30pm MT
Northwood Final
Yurko (6)
McMahon Final
Desormeau (8)
Johnston Final
Abbs (5)
Snideman Final
Martens (8)
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