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05-09-21 08:10PM
Bmalky is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Bmalky Find more posts by Bmalky Add Bmalky to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Bmalky
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2019
Location: Brantford, ON
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
One little thing I've noticed in games watched.

No sponsorship or teams wearing Arthur Asham equipment.

At one point Asham was the preeminent supplier of sliders, shoes, sticks, slacks & other apparel.

Wonder if the pandemic took the steam out of Asham or not?

Also, Asham doesn't like to put big money on scoreboard advertising or even paying teams their fair share for sponsorship.

With little or no domestic curling going on in Canada I wonder what the future holds for Asham Curling. Especially when so many innovations being introduced by other manufacturers, inventors & suppliers!



The Swiss all had Asham shoes on!

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05-09-21 08:18PM
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Bmalky
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2019
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnysmoke
Also, RCF made Mike Harris look like a curling-imbecile, proving him laughably wrong with his condescending commentary end after end.

Like "RCF, without hammer, should keep this end clean to limit SWE " RCF piles a wall of granite on the 4 foot, leaving Hasselborg with nothing.


The name calling is totally unneceesary. Mike is an excellent strategist. His point became evident when RCF gave up a 3 and very nearly a 4 when the score was 6 - 1.

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05-09-21 08:34PM
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Manitoba Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by Bmalky


The Swiss all had Asham shoes on!



Asham for the WIN . . . ! ! !

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05-09-21 09:49PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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Registered: Mar 2013
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


Like my old coach Leo Cahill used to say:

"Hasselborg had 3 ideas and both of them were better!"




I'm surprised nobody else called you out on this. Leo Cahill famed CFL coach? Really? Maybe 70 years ago in the peewee flag football schoolyard. YOUR COACH? REALLY. I think not. I know not. He never coached curling!!!! Stop the BS.

He may have said that but he was NEVER your coach.



Somebody call the local fire department, the LEGEND's pants are on fire....

Last edited by IN-OFF-FOR-2 on 05-09-21 at 09:58PM

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05-09-21 09:59PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bmalky

The name calling is totally unneceesary. ...


In retrospect, my choice of wording was unduly harsh and I apologize for that unreservedly.

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05-09-21 10:16PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by johnnysmoke

In retrospect, my choice of wording was unduly harsh and I apologize for that unreservedly.
[/QUOTE

Well done. I too get a little sarcastic or attempts at humour.....and it least I find it funny, or over the top at times.... but 2 steps back and reflect, apologize and move on.

However, there are still some here that get personal and vindictive, (subliminal ML) and it can get borderline abusive towards curlers and teams, whether you think your stupid nicknames towards teams and players are appropriate or not.

Go back to your "football days", and leave curling alone.

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05-09-21 10:49PM
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guido
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Registered: Feb 2011
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2



I'm surprised nobody else called you out on this. Leo Cahill famed CFL coach? Really? Maybe 70 years ago in the peewee flag football schoolyard. YOUR COACH? REALLY. I think not. I know not. He never coached curling!!!! Stop the BS.

He may have said that but he was NEVER your coach.



Somebody call the local fire department, the LEGEND's pants are on fire....




He does sheet like this to get people going. Don’t fall for the bait. Another one is “Arthur” Asham.

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05-09-21 11:37PM
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alex
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Too bad the gold medal game wasn't very interesting to watch. The bronze game was much more interesting. Both teams in gold were very good but no highlight reel shots unfortunately.

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05-10-21 01:16AM
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PSanders
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Feb 2020
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My observation is that Team Canada (both men and women) have trouble with WCF rocks and ice (which is much straighter than Slam ice). Perhaps it is time Curl Canada 'brainstormed' this to find a solution. World teams do not seem to have this problem. ....basically, if we want world championships and Olympic medals, our ice conditions need to be more challenging, and our rotation needs to vary as required.
Having said that, kudos to Kerri and company for a wonderful comeback and for winning a spot for Canada at the Olympics.

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05-10-21 11:31AM
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hogged again
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Bottcher and Einarson both played OK, just the days of Canada showing up and getting a medal are long gone. The general consensus is that the world has caught up to Canada though is not true. There are teams out there that are super elite, Edin, Tirinzoni, Hasselborg, Mouat and they get to go to the worlds every year. They don't have competitions anywhere near the level of the Brier or Scotties so basically they plan their whole year around the world championship. This, combined with the comfort level they have at the worlds from being there so often makes them constant threats to win. This is not something new, in the past the names were Lindholm, Gustaffsson, Nordby, Norberg, Ramsfell, Trulsen. A good example is Andrea Schopp, a great curler with average teams who went 20 years, winning 2 times but most years was middle of the pack.
Canadian teams don't have that luxury, you could see Bottcher and Einarson teams did not have the same comfort level as at the Brier and Scotties which are just as tough fields but places where both have been plenty of times.
To say that the world has caught up is misleading. There are many many many teams in Canada who would contend at the World Championships if they got there. There are about 5 men's and 5 women's teams from around the world who could say the same.

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05-10-21 01:48PM
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misty1
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Congrats to tirinzoni. She joins a very elite group . only 4 times before has a womens team defended a world title and that list contains legends

Elisabet Gustafson
Annette norberg
Dordi nordby
Sandra schmirler

Thats a very prestigous list to join

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05-10-21 02:08PM
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Manitoba Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by misty1
Congrats to tirinzoni. She joins a very elite group . only 4 times before has a womens team defended a world title and that list contains legends

Elisabet Gustafson
Annette norberg
Dordi nordby
Sandra schmirler

Thats a very prestigous list to join



Very elite to be sure!

What I liked most about the above teams was their incredible on-ice & off-ice demeanour. Nordby could be a bit of an agitant with her hoarse-voiced shouting but they were all class acts.

Tirinzoni doesn't match up as a 4th stone thrower with any of the above, with the possible exception of Nordby but Silvana might now be considered as one of the truly elite 3rds in the sport.
She's a diabolical game-planner and strategist who obviously studies her opponents furiously - also knows how to unleash her not-so-secret weapon Alina Paetz on a routine basis.

While many may regard Sweden as the #1 Olympic seed I don't think you can ignore Tiriinzoni/Paetz, they're amazing. If anything they should be #1 co-seeds w/ RCF being 3rd. Don't know who Canada will send but they'll be somewhere between #4 & #6.
#4 if the Homan shot-pelters grab the spot. #5 or #6 if its Einarson, Jones, Walker or Scheidegger.

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Last edited by Manitoba Legend on 05-10-21 at 02:37PM

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05-10-21 02:47PM
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misty1
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


Very elite to be sure!

What I liked most about the above teams was their incredible on-ice & off-ice demeanour. Nordby could be a bit of an agitant with her hoarse-voiced shouting but they were all class acts.

Tirinzoni doesn't match up as a 4th stone thrower with any of the above, with the possible exception of Nordby but Silvana might now be considered as one of the truly elite 3rds in the sport.
She's a diabolical game-planner and strategist who obviously studies her opponents furiously - also knows how to unleash her not-so-secret weapon Alina Paetz on a routine basis.

While many may regard Sweden as the #1 Olympic seed I don't think you can ignore Tiriinzoni/Paetz, they're amazing. If anything they should be #1 co-seeds w/ RCF being 3rd. Don't know who Canada will send but they'll be somewhere between #4 & #6.
#4 if the Homan shot-pelters grab the spot. #5 or #6 if its Einarson, Jones, Walker or Scheidegger.



I think everyone sees what parts has done for tirinzoni. Many still say that without russ gushue never wins the Olympic Trials or Olympic gold. Well, same here. Without paetz tirinzoni isn't ever winning a world title. Silvana just didn't have the nerve for it. Playing 3rd suits her so much better

As for paetz. She is, in my view the greatest individual curler switzerland has ever had and one of the best the world has seen anywhere.3 time womens world championships, 2 time mixed double champion, european silver. Many people name Homan, Muirhead and hasselborg when asked who the most talented active individual curler is and paetz gets overlooked but I'd be tempted to go with her. Incredible shot making and nerves of steel

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05-10-21 02:51PM
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misty1
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As for Muirhead.. maybe not surprising. This is hands down the weakest team she's ever had. I'm not sure why Lauren gray is at lead. She'd be far more valuable at 3rd

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05-10-21 03:58PM
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Manitoba Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by misty1
As for Muirhead.. maybe not surprising. This is hands down the weakest team she's ever had. I'm not sure why Lauren gray is at lead. She'd be far more valuable at 3rd


She started out Worlds at 3rd for Princess Eve but was quickly demoted to lead (how embarrassing for her and for the entire Scottish Curling)

Eve seemed overly distracted and fidgety in the limited glimpses we had of her during worlds. Not the same Eve Muirhead that once crushed all comers with her magnificent 1-woman show.

This year's team was her weakest to be sure - made even weaker by Eve's inability to bail them out with her signature super-shots!

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05-10-21 04:06PM
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Manitoba Legend
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Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:
Originally posted by misty1


I think everyone sees what parts has done for tirinzoni. Many still say that without russ gushue never wins the Olympic Trials or Olympic gold. Well, same here. Without paetz tirinzoni isn't ever winning a world title. Silvana just didn't have the nerve for it. Playing 3rd suits her so much better

As for paetz. She is, in my view the greatest individual curler switzerland has ever had and one of the best the world has seen anywhere.3 time womens world championships, 2 time mixed double champion, european silver. Many people name Homan, Muirhead and hasselborg when asked who the most talented active individual curler is and paetz gets overlooked but I'd be tempted to go with her. Incredible shot making and nerves of steel



In terms of broom accuracy and slide stability Rachel Homan is by far the greatest.

In terms of guile and ability to produce great shots under pressure that honour goes to Alina Paetz.

For sheer mental stubborness and ability to craft wins in any situations I pick Annette Norberg.

For winning 2 worlds and an unbeaten Olympic golds, gotta go with Jennifer Jones - imagine if she could still hit the broom, judge line & weight accurately and improve her sub-par rock placements? Jones self-destructed many times during her legendary career but came out firing like the dickens the next end. Indomitable spirit like we've never seen before.

Elisabet Gustafson was a natural talent and supreme curling intellect. She used all facets of her team's abilities to craft out unique wins.

Einarson is the nearest Canadian player to rival Homan in slide stability + broom accuracy but she's still a statistical yo-yo in terms of consistency. Imagine Einarson consistently shooting mid 80s to low 90s. She'd be virtually unbeatable (in Canada, anyways)

Based on her non-threatening guile & craftiness (not just shooting) I'm naming Silvana Tirinzoni as the top 3rd in the women's game.

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05-12-21 12:59AM
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Relish
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A marathon of tardy observations:

* Sweden needs to return to the cynical defensive style...hitting everything. I knew darn well they would suffocate and frustrate South Korea in the 2018 Olympic final. Nowadays with the confused hybrid approach they are adopting via the Canadian coaching, they would be a threat to lose that game. Hasselborg not only makes worse shots when forced to draw to a crowded house, she makes worse decisions.

* Switzerland is awesome at strategy. This is the only current high profile team men's or women's who will pick a subtle shot I hadn't even considered, and as soon as I look at it...that's brilliant. That team is also great at adapting to opponents. They remind me of the Bill Belichick approach of taking away the opponent's greatest strength in methodical fashion, to the point nobody is surprised

* RCF gets away with the loose style because they play on top of the T Line. It is remarkable how they dependably bunch the house at the top of the 4 foot. I first saw that tendency watching obscure Russian games on YouTube a few years ago. This was an upstart team that had the Olympic darling Anastasia playing third. Now she's gone and the linebacker is shooting third. But the commonality is playing high. However, Kovaleva is not dependable or ruthless enough.

* The Americans were extremely fortunate with the playoff seeding. It required Denmark coming back from 2 down late against the Czechs in the final game, stealing the 10th. Otherwise no chance the United States gets past the opening game. It reminded me of 2018 Olympics when Shuster managed to avoid Benoit Schwarz in the playoffs. Gold medal gone. Tara Peterson at lead is the most aggressive American sweeper man or woman I have seen in at least a decade. I was astonished how slow the commentators were to pick up on that, but they finally started crediting her in the final games. The front sets up everything well and then Tabitha makes one bizarre call after another, both in terms of shot and weight. I have no idea how it resulted in a bronze. Jill Officer and Kevin Martin on different announcing teams were pointing out all the mistaken strategic choices. It was dumb luck that a spinning yellow happened to bump and stop a United States stone early in that bronze medal game. Tabitha threw hard when Officer was imploring it should have been soft. That would have been a steal of 4 instead of 1, and game over. You can sense that Nina Roth the former skip often doesn't agree with Tabitha's call. But Nina is so polite and non confrontational she goes along with it.

The Americans have three women's teams of players of near equal ability -- Team Peterson, Team Sinclair and Team Christensen. It's not murderers row like Canada but mostly frustration that nothing stands out as great upside, despite the bronze. I always know the United States will end round robin play just either side of .500. Poor strategy is an issue with all three teams. Too darn bad Alex Carlson is no longer playing. She was third on Sinclair's rink a few years ago when they made the playoffs at worlds. Carlson was a work in progress as a player. But she was incredibly sharp in advising Sinclair on strategy. It was the only recent American women's team that got the call right almost every time. Sinclair used to rave about how smart Carlson was. I think she had a math background or something like that. Then maternity leave and I don't see her anymore. Not sure if she retired for good.

* It is sad to watch Eve on this level of team. Even when they started out 3-0 you could see it was mirage. Anna Sloan was a comparative deficit at that position. But at least there was a formula and tons of confidence. Now it's like total scattergun from one end to the next, with the others grinning like housewives while Eve wants to slam the broom.

Eve gives away more points than she used to. That's a trend in the women's game in general. Not catastrophic final shots but ends that are set up beautifully then the skip turns 3 into 2, or 2 into 1, or a blank into 1. Lots of small errors followed by, "Sorry guys." Exponentially more prevalent on the women's side than the men's side. I was a huge Eve fan beginning a decade ago because she never did that. Whatever was there, she maximized. Now I'm not sure if it's the hip or the eyesight or slight decline but she misses that final shot all the time. It was particularly prevalent in the 2018 bronze medal game in the Olympics against Japan, when Eve erred the final shot at least 4 or 5 times, including in the 10th, although that was more difficult than priors

* I have to say I enjoy it when Rachel Homan is not skipping in huge events. I don't like her. Are you sure she's Canadian? Seems more like an American of certain demographic that I won't specify. I admire the remainder of that team. Not enough to endure Rachel Homan. I don't get to see the Canadian events but I'm always rooting for Jennifer Jones to emerge, with the kamikaze strategy and outcomes. Stones everywhere. Plus some joy on faces that seems genuine. On the men's side I wasn't overly familiar with Bottcher. I usually want to see Gushoe or Koe, even if they hit too much for my taste. I don't need to see Edin vs. Koe and 10 ends of double takeouts at 100mph.

* Asian teams are the biggest wild card approaching the Olympics. Apparently they didn't train sufficiently or get enough ice time during the pandemic. Really miserable this year. I sense they'll rebound especially the South Koreans. Too much talent on those teams. Kevin Martin was pointing out that the South Korean female skip had developed a small technical error with her slide and release. Sure enough, it showed up time and again against the United States. They never would have lost that game with even minimal competence from the skip in the early ends. And if that one outcome is reversed, then the playoff berth between the two teams is reversed as well

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05-12-21 05:52AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Relish
Sinclair used to rave about how smart Carlson was.


Was this in interviews I can read and/or podcast episodes I can listen to and/or videos I can watch?

quote:
Originally posted by Relish
Then maternity leave and I don't see her anymore. Not sure if she retired for good.

Alex Carlson played as recently as March 2020, but it was mixed doubles. And she then went by Alex Agre.

https://www.curlingzone.com/player.php?playerid=15810

Last footage I can find is the Mixed Doubles US Nationals, against Peterson/Polo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u54...tV15CEL12ZPzMem

Last edited by curlingclips on 05-12-21 at 06:33AM

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05-12-21 08:38PM
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Relish, it is refreshing to read such a well articulated and thought-proving post. Well done!

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05-13-21 07:41PM
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alex
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The post was very good I thought except for the comments about Rachel Homan. I used to agree but she has become much more likeable since she has become a mother and seems much more relaxed than she used to be. I am impressed that anyone could be that interested in curling in May. Frankly I wasn't disappointed when there was a gap in coverage for a few days as it is just too nice out now. Have the same thoughts about mixed unless we get some rainy days.

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W: Korean Curling Championships
Gangneung, KOR
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 2-6 -- Fri, Jul 2 -- 6:00am ET
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M: Korean Curling Championships
Gangneung, KOR
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Draw: 2-CF -- Fri, Jul 2 -- 9:00pm ET
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