Registered: Nov 2002
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Temperature? Old news.

The top 5 reported Omicron symptoms(UK study) are:
1. Runny nose
2. Headache
3. Fatigue
4. Sneezing
5. Sore throat

Fever is 10th with ~30% reporting this symptom.

Last edited by johnnysmoke on 01-16-22 at 10:57PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by johnnysmoke
Temperature? Old news.

The top 5 reportred Omicron symptoms(UK study) are:
1. Runny nose
2. Headache
3. Fatigue
4. Sneezing
5. Sore throat

Fever is 10th with ~30% reporting this symptom.

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quote:

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Originally posted by guido


I guess Ive had omicron for about 3 months.

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Dating myself but again, things that make you say hmmmm
FTLOG what were you/they thinking. Smaller version of CC, let it go, keep my job. NOT. Will both ladies and men’s teams be disqualified for covid exposure? Most likely women’s yes, men’s have a couple months to recover. Still, WHO gave the ok with the positive results. Why didn’t they exclude/disqualify the teams not adhering to the rules? Who and why? Step up and take a bow.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Observer
Yes, you’re right that I goofed on the n being population rather than cases and that I used the wrong dividing factor.

Your later looking at the current BC numbers doesn’t fit the situation as I’d framed it though, The current 646 in hospital number doesn’t split this up between vaccinated and unvaccinated, I was saying that if you limit all attendance to the vaccinated, you won’t have many serious diseases and hospitalizations, and I still stand by that. You deduced 15 in hospital based on the total number. Vaccination efficacy against serious disease is reported to be around 90% still, leaving 10% serious, and if I can get the math right this time, using your 15 number, that’s 1.5.
Now these numbers are deriving from the entire population. If people who know they are at serious risk for serious COVID simply stay away from events like this, then that 1.5 number would sink further.

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Vaccinations are doing nothing against the omicron variant. There is no proof that it protects against a level of illness or hospitalization. It did help before as you could see it in the numbers. In the last month there are no differences between vaxxed and unvaxxed as far a hospitalization goes.

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The vaccine does prevent hospitalizations FOR Covid.

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quote:

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Originally posted by guido
Vaccinations are doing nothing against the omicron variant. There is no proof that it protects against a level of illness or hospitalization. It did help before as you could see it in the numbers. In the last month there are no differences between vaxxed and unvaxxed as far a hospitalization goes.

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quote:

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Originally posted by biterbar


B.S. - In the States here the many counties and health organizations are reporting cases and hospitalizations of vaxxed and non-vaxxed and 90-95% of both are currently non-vaxxed. ICU cases have been consistently 100% non-vaxxed at the local center.

Stop spreading lies.

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Last edited by guido on 01-17-22 at 01:27PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by guido


I have no reason to spread lies. I am vaccinated. I’m going by hospitalization numbers in the last month (omicron).

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quote:

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Originally posted by biterbar


Manitoba COVID-19 - Risk by Vaccination Status

People who are NOT fully vaccinated are1x more likely to test positive with COVID-19

People who are NOT fully vaccinated are 4x more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19

People who are NOT fully vaccinated are 21x more likely to be admitted to an
intensive care unit with COVID-19

People who are NOT fully vaccinated are 17 more likely to die with COVID-19.

Note: These rates are based on the previous six weeks of data. Age-standardized rates are based on the 2016 Canada Population.

https://www.gov.mb.ca/covid19/updat...#vaccine-status

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Again, while the stats and data are interesting, they really no longer apply to the situation.

Technically any bubble event is a closed environment experiment of sorts. Follow the rules and nothing should, hopefully, get in.

If we do that and Omicron still shows up then the experiment is a failure. In this case it appears very likely that the rules were ignored, introducing another variable, so there is no way of knowing with any certainty that this bubble would have succeeded.

I guess Curl BC could have been cynical and assumed that someone would actually, purposely break protocol and then put in place daily rapid testing. However its not an unreasonable thing for them to believe that all the participants wanted this event and therefore would, presumably, adhere diligently to the protocols without having to be strictly supervised the entire time.

And let's remember that every participant would've signed a waiver to this extent.

So again, all the data we see here-accurate or not-is a moot point to what is now the main issue and what Curl BC is investigating.

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quote:

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Originally posted by guido
[B In the last month there are no differences between vaxxed and unvaxxed as far a hospitalization goes. [/B]

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Covid cases in Manitoba

0 Doses-16%
1 Dose- 6%
2 Doses-63%
3 Doses-14%


Covid hospitalizations in Manitoba

0 Doses-34%
1 Dose-4%
2 Doses-49%
3 Doses-13%

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So...people without vaccines are far more likely to be hospitalized? The point you're disagreeing with? What?

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quote:

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Originally posted by guido
Covid cases in Manitoba

0 Doses-16%
1 Dose- 6%
2 Doses-63%
3 Doses-14%


Covid hospitalizations in Manitoba

0 Doses-34%
1 Dose-4%
2 Doses-49%
3 Doses-13%

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quote:

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Originally posted by oliviertoisel
So...people without vaccines are far more likely to be hospitalized? The point you're disagreeing with? What?

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quote:

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Originally posted by guido


Well, if you would have followed along the last 6 weeks, you would see that the effectiveness of the vaccine is weakening. But, on a positive note, the severity of omicron is far weaker than the former strains.

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Well,
Biterbar used Manitoba in his reply. I assume because that’s where my location is. I just stuck with the same province to not confuse anyone. Numbers are similar.
Carry on.

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quote:

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Originally posted by oliviertoisel


The goalposts have moved so far since your first post they're now in a difference province.

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As a competitor from the event that is still recovering from COVID (brain fog, headaches, nausea), I feel that I need to step in and address some of the comments and logic being conveyed here, which echoes posts made in other social media outlets.

The peak transmission period of Omicron in BC was early january (https://vancouversun.com/news/covid...ward-trajectory), which isn't a surprise given Christmas and NYE celebrations occurred shortly beforehand, which is probably the most significant factor that everyone that would rather roast CurlBC or other teams seems to want to conveniently dismiss or forget.

This event wasn't in a bubble, not even close. A true bubble would require the athletes to arrive a set period of time before the event (used to be 14 days with other variants) in order to quarantine and ensure that no players are carrying the virus (symptomatic or asymptomatic). The same would apply to volunteers, ice staff, and CurlBC staff. Also, a truly effective bubble would have deployed the use of rapid COVID tests to ensure players are not contracting the virus during the course of the event, nor did they bring it in with them from Christmas or New Years celebrations. This didn’t happen either, whether by choice or due to lack of rapid test availability, which are still extremely hard to find right now due to such high demand. There was also no mandate to use N95 masks among the players, coaches, ice staff, CurlBC staff or volunteers. So, in the end, this wasn’t a bubble nor did it have the appropriate safeguards to be a truly effective one. That said, the players all knew this, and we all signed the waiver papers anyways because we all wanted to compete and accepted the risks.

Before this event kicked off, the Mens side went from 18 teams at signup deadline to 16 teams after canceling the playdowns to 14 teams after announcing the event was back on after a short cancellation, and then finally settled in on 12. Most of the teams that pulled out of the event did so due to COVID concerns so any of the teams left were well aware that there was a risk of contracting the virus. This also meant they knew that an event taking place immediately after Christmas and New Years had a high risk of bringing in the virus from multiple vectors (players, ice team, CurlBC staff, and volunteers). Trying to scapegoat some teams as being the cause of the virus transmission only shows a fundamental lack of understanding of virus transmission, incubation periods, and social factors such as known superspreading events (Holiday transmission) that immediately preceded the event.

CurlBC had already contacted the teams after the event requesting contact tracing information so it is certainly possible that they are aware of all player cases as well as the date in which they individuals began showing symptoms. This data could lead to better understand if the majority of the transmission took place at a certain point in the week (assuming predictable virus incubation and transmissability times, which we know doesn’t really exist) however I am already aware of a team that contracted the virus that was out of the competition on the Thursday and didn’t stick around. In all likelihood, the point of transmission was during the second team practice on the Tuesday of the event when each team had 9 minutes of practice per sheet before rotating to the next. This put players on every single sheet and breathing the same air and in the same immediate area as all previous players before and after them. The players were instructed to clean the handles as they progressed across the sheets however I noticed some teams didn’t do this for every single sheet they were on, which means those teams assumed additional risk at that moment.

As far as I know, CurlBC's investigation is still on-going but I really do not expect anything to come out of it, and most of the competitors do not either. We all knew the risks and we all knew that the safeguards in order to the run the event weren't adequate for a true bubble, so those guidelines/rules actually only provided a false sense of security. Anyone with an objective eye would be able to see that. In the end, all players accepted risks and signed waivers so this is a non-starter. Given the fact that this event took place a couple of days after New Years, which is a known historically high transmissability event, it is highly likely a handful of the 80+ players/5th/coaches came to the event with the virus already and were asymptomatic carriers, and it spread during the second practice or slowly across teams once the first draw began. That also assumes that the players themselves are the ones that brought in the virus and not the ice crew, CurlBC staff, or the volunteers.

The only olive branch I will extend on this matter is that CurlBC could have done more with regards to testing players as they arrived to ensure no players were bringing in the virus, and they could have moved the men's event to a later date to reduce total number of players, volunteers, etc. Given how scarce the rapid tests were and still are today, CurlBC would have had to secure a significant supply well before the event, which was well before Omicron started spreading like crazy. Since it is apparent that they did not do this, testing players, coaches, 5ths, volunteers, ice team, and CurlBC staff to ensure that virus was no present at the start of event was not possible. As such, this is a non-starter and all players were aware of the situation.

As for delaying the Men's, it wasn't necessary to hold the Men's event in early January as it could have waited until February, like other provinces. Originally the event was supposed to take place in an arena with spectators however the event was moved to a curling club without spectators in order to make the event still run. At that time, CurlBC could have decided to split the men’s and women’s event in order to reduce the total number of people involved in the event, which would have reduced the transmission probability. Then again, there was no guarantee that in a month the COVID situation would have improved enough to allow the Men’s event to run so running it when it did may have been CurlBC's only opportunity. Having the men's event in February would have given players (myself included) the opportunity to get a booster shot and reduce the likelihood of transmission and infection rates among players. Also, not having the event immediately following a historical superspreading event (New Years celebrations) would have also reduced the probability of transmission.

CurlBC worked tirelessly across the holidays and put in countless extra hours to make the event possible. They should be praised for all their hard work, not demonized. Given all of the factors I have mentioned above, I do not see how determining the true source(s) of transmission among the players is even possible, and trying to scapegoat teams, individuals, or CurlBC is a sign of individual frustration or bias. I understand that players or teams would be upset with the outcome but I really do not see how it wouldn't have be possible given how the event was run, the resources available to CurlBC, having the event immediately following a known superspreading event (Christmas & NYE) and during the peak period of transmissability of the most contagious variant of COVID that we have seen to date. Also, your statement about individuals going to Casinos and such occurred after those teams were already eliminated from the event and thus didn’t not play a factor in virus transmission. This witch hunt needs to end.

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Thanks for chiming in with your thoughts. Hopefully your recovery is swift with no lingering effects.

Unfortunately you are incorrect on some of your statements.

The casino incident happened prior to the start of the event (although there was another one later in the week involving teams eliminated as well). During the week there were also dining in at restaurant and pubs incidents.

Secondly, no one is 'roasting' Curl BC here. Stakeholders, participants, the Board and the PHO (who gave Curl BC the green light to host it based on the structures put in place) all have a not unreasonable right to know what happened.

Third, the tired statement 'they all knew the risks...' is a cop out and not justification for not adhering to the rules and protocols. Every athlete and participant there had a reasonable expectation that their fellow curlers, staff and volunteers would follow, to the letter, Curl BC's protocols in order to run, as safely as possible, the event without incident.

Fourth, we all know this wasn't a true bubble, no one here or on social media has claimed it as such. It was, at best, a hybrid of the successful system used back in the fall at the provincial seniors championships.

Fifth, the investigation is not 'a witch hunt' as you put it. Calling it such, IMO, appears to gaslight Curl BC while whitewashing the alleged actions of some who may have ignored protocols and rules.

All your statements, accurate or not, about transmission, masks, etc are moot. The simple truth is we won't know if the protocols would have worked or not because they were not followed by all.

Had everyone followed protocols and covid still happened there would still be an investigation to ascertain what were the areas that could be improved upon for the future if this pandemic continues to linger on.

Lastly, yes there was an offer from the Vernon CC to have a separate men's event in February. Curl BC did turn it down and while I don't know their exact reasons it's fair to presume the additional costs of running it, securing airtime and gathering enough volunteers and officials most likely played a part in their decision. And, as I've stated elsewhere, they had a reasonable expectation that the very athletes who wanted the event would do everything in their power to follow protocols and guidelines put in place for their safety and health.

Ultimately you could be guessing correctly that nothing will come of this. However that's not our call. It belongs to the Board. We shall all just have to wait and see. But it bears remembering how the NS Jr. Men's team of Shawn Adam's was stripped of their 1993 Canadian Jr. Championship and all given suspensions for violating event rules-and that was just for a few drinks. I suggest to you that this situation is far more serious.

Meanwhile, seeing as you were there, I suggest you forward your comments observations and concerns directly to the Curl BC board to help further the investigation. I'm sure they would appreciate the insight and opportunity to discuss things with you.

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Last edited by jamcan on 01-19-22 at 09:59AM

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by djslipstream
[B]As a competitor from the

Thanks for your comments. Glad to have some input from a competitor, Hope you recover quickly.

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I can’t believe you are still droning on about this.

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Originally posted by CynCurling
I can’t believe you are still droning on about this.

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Last edited by jamcan on 01-19-22 at 09:55AM

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