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| 03-19-23 06:17AM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
2023 Women's Worlds
There's a big, big difference in the ice and in the rocks between the Scotties/Brier and the Women's Worlds.
Thus far in Sweden (I've watched 2 games), the ice lasts for only about 5 ends (and it's not great for those 5 ends), then it breaks down.
And the rocks are dead compared to what we have in Canada.
The result is that the curling is not of as high a calibre as we're accustomed to - there are many shots missed (see Hasselborg's last rock vs. Canada - a draw to the 4 foot which didn't come close to making the House), and there are lots of steals.
The games overall have been exciting to watch - they've been close... but the quality is not what we're used to (and not what the players are capable of).
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| 03-19-23 11:10AM |
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johnnysmoke
Drawmaster
Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 612 |
Did you see that Tabitha Peterson runback+pick on the last shot of the game for the win vs CAN?
That was clutch. The USA skip has ice water in her veins!
https://youtu.be/8dBbve_kgAw?t=245
Last edited by johnnysmoke on 03-19-23 at 12:25PM
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| 03-19-23 01:34PM |
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hogged again
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2019
Location:
Posts: 659 |
Really liking that drone shot from right above the sweepers that follows them all the way down the ice.
One bad call cost Einarson this morning. Throwing a tough freeze against 2 brought the 3 into play in 8. Just throw a hit, you will almost always get 1 out and stay tied with hammer. She called it fast, Val didn't question it, she asked the front end if they liked it and got a yes but it wasn't enthusiastic.
1-1 is OK though and she has made some clutch shots that should give confidence going forward in marathon 12 game round robin.
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| 03-19-23 05:42PM |
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myhouse911
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 154 |
Yikes, Scotland was up 7-2 after six ends and end up losing 9-8, with Japan getting 4 in the tenth to win.
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| 03-19-23 06:52PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
I've seen all 3 games so far. Thankfully the overnight game was replayed later. The ice conditions there just goes to show the Canadian teams and top teams that play in Canada all the time how spoiled they are with usually consistent pristine conditions. No matter how bad the ice is, it's the same for both teams, with the advantage going to the teams that play that type of ice more often. I expect more "upsets" throughout the week.
Go Canada Go.
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| 03-19-23 07:32PM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
Nice gift that Norway gave Canada in the last end. Oversea coaches should use that end as an example of what not to do with the hammer tied after nine.
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| 03-19-23 09:19PM |
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myhouse911
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 154 |
quote:
Originally posted by johnnysmoke
Did you see that Tabitha Peterson runback+pick on the last shot of the game for the win vs CAN?
That was clutch. The USA skip has ice water in her veins!
https://youtu.be/8dBbve_kgAw?t=245
I saw it and that Russ only gave her a 5% chance in making the shot.. good for her!
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| 03-19-23 10:10PM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
How nice of World Curling to air this amateur event. Really love watching the world's best women curlers miss shot after shot. Nothing more enjoyable than 50% curling from top athletes.
Just kidding. This is a repugnant event. Whoever is in charge of this surface should never work in the sport again. Awful to watch, awful to play in I'm sure. And it's inexcusable. This is a new facility in a country familiar with the sport. The sole explanation is that world curling is inept at managing ice. I'm not expecting perfection, I love a little twist and turn, but crap ice is crap and it does not belong at this level. Imagine a professional golf course where the grass wasn't even cut properly or half of some holes were swamp instead of turf. It wouldn't happen. It should not happen at any world curling event. But this sport is burdened but a terrible international organization that endlessly brings it down. At some point Canada should just quit.
Unless you're Alina Paetz, I guess, who apparently can still curl 99%. Didn't see that game but it looks like she threw 5/18 draws and made them all pretty much beautifully (none were that hard but still). So maybe it's not the ice and the elite women curlers are just wildly inconsistent?
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| 03-19-23 10:18PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
So maybe it's not the ice
Chief Ice Tech is the same person as it ever was for WCF.
Supposedly Team Tirinzoni practices on varying ice by design. They actually request their practice ice to be made one way one day, and a different way the next day, etc., instead of practicing only on the single most perfect condition.
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| 03-19-23 10:58PM |
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hogged again
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2019
Location:
Posts: 659 |
quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
How nice of World Curling to air this amateur event. Really love watching the world's best women curlers miss shot after shot. Nothing more enjoyable than 50% curling from top athletes.
Just kidding. This is a repugnant event. Whoever is in charge of this surface should never work in the sport again. Awful to watch, awful to play in I'm sure. And it's inexcusable. This is a new facility in a country familiar with the sport. The sole explanation is that world curling is inept at managing ice. I'm not expecting perfection, I love a little twist and turn, but crap ice is crap and it does not belong at this level. Imagine a professional golf course where the grass wasn't even cut properly or half of some holes were swamp instead of turf. It wouldn't happen. It should not happen at any world curling event. But this sport is burdened but a terrible international organization that endlessly brings it down. At some point Canada should just quit.
Unless you're Alina Paetz, I guess, who apparently can still curl 99%. Didn't see that game but it looks like she threw 5/18 draws and made them all pretty much beautifully (none were that hard but still). So maybe it's not the ice and the elite women curlers are just wildly inconsistent?
Yes and it's hilarious to see Russ dancing around the issue. Oh the ice is fabulous, the icemakers are working so hard and in the next sentence oh it's really fudging down the middle and it's only the 5th end.
I have never seen so many draws missed light by a mile since my last C group club game and it's only day 2. Some hits have ended up back line weight too.
I think this will actually benefit Einarson. Her front end are two of the best out there and I expect they will get a handle on the ice and the finicky paths better than the other front ends.
It's interesting to note that Russ and Cathy were talking about how the WCF mandates the swing in the ice, demanding it be quite a bit less than it is for Scotties/Brier. Maybe this hampers the ability of the ice crew (pebbling, nipping etc) to make better ice?
Last edited by hogged again on 03-19-23 at 11:06PM
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| 03-19-23 11:17PM |
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On The Nose
Drawmaster
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: In the House
Posts: 608 |
quote:
Originally posted by johnnysmoke
Did you see that Tabitha Peterson runback+pick on the last shot of the game for the win vs CAN?
That was clutch. The USA skip has ice water in her veins!
https://youtu.be/8dBbve_kgAw?t=245
Yes, I saw the shot. Very nice, indeed.
But I doubt she would have made it on good ice. 
__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| 03-20-23 12:14AM |
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Prawnpuller
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2013
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 97 |
I think it’s fair to say we may be spoiled by watching the pros play on good ice here in Canada.
I believe that Russ just cannot say what he really would like to say “namely that the ice AND the rocks suck. Being a new facility with different problems for the Ice Technicians I’m hopeful they will get it figured out soon before it’s too late. The rocks are also “dead” with those big flat striking bands.
IMHO these conditions are not acceptable in this type of competition. Making the girls look bad..they will have to play the game to these conditions limiting there skill.
Two things can happen…One is bad
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| 03-20-23 01:35AM |
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Brandon378
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Dec 2021
Location:
Posts: 15 |
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| 03-20-23 10:00AM |
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guido
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1418 |
Russ Howard may be a very good curler, and very knowledgable. But, he is a terrible commentator .
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It’s me!
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| 03-20-23 11:07AM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
Pro tip: Joanne Courtney and Niklas Edin are commentating for Recast.
Niklas Edin is on top of my list for most insightful commentator. Super chill and no hype, but the things he said about curling will blow your mind intellectually.
If you like the skip's mind insights from the likes of Chelsea Carey and Jennifer Jones, Niklas Edin is on another level.
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| 03-20-23 11:53AM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
Chief Ice Tech is the same person as it ever was for WCF.
Supposedly Team Tirinzoni practices on varying ice by design. They actually request their practice ice to be made one way one day, and a different way the next day, etc., instead of practicing only on the single most perfect condition.
Is practising on perfect ice something international teams do? I've never heard of it in Canada. Almost all Canadians use club facilities which are 1) wildly varied, and 2) very imperfect. I'm 100% positive the top teams will tweak the ice, they have access to the club clippers and scrapers, but they're not throwing arena ice except at events.
It's also important to differentiate between 1) bad ice reading and 2) bad ice. The issue with the latter is that the ice changes constantly and there's nothing to "read".
Last edited by oliviertoisel on 03-20-23 at 11:57AM
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| 03-20-23 11:53AM |
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maybo
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: Stouffville ON
Posts: 148 |
The ice at the 1993 Worlds in Geneva was terrible. Patinoire des Vernets had a sloped floor, leading to occasional frost at one end only. Russ, perhaps owing to the outstanding team he had, went out of his way to praise the ice-makers to us in the media scrum after every draw.
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| 03-20-23 12:31PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
they're not throwing arena ice except at events
Well, Kim Eun-jung moved from Uiseong to Gangneung, and I think part of the reason is because they want to utilize the Gangneung Curling Center from 2018 Olympics.
https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.co...4171200409.html
So my (unconfirmed) guess is that Team Kim does practice on arena ice.
Gangneung Curling Center still exists today. It will host 2023 World Mixed Doubles next month.
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| 03-20-23 12:55PM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Making the girls look bad..they will have to play the game to these conditions limiting [/B][/QUOTe
Try using the word "women". It is the same number of letters.
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| 03-20-23 03:52PM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
Well, Kim Eun-jung moved from Uiseong to Gangneung, and I think part of the reason is because they want to utilize the Gangneung Curling Center from 2018 Olympics.
https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.co...4171200409.html
So my (unconfirmed) guess is that Team Kim does practice on arena ice.
Gangneung Curling Center still exists today. It will host 2023 World Mixed Doubles next month.
Interesting, then. It seems international teams are being given advantages Canadian teams do not have. Maybe something Murdoch will address?
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| 03-20-23 04:00PM |
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hogged again
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2019
Location:
Posts: 659 |
Weird. They are talking about flies on the ice and Cathy says it is not unusual to find flies on curling club ice but in 50 years of curling I have never seen 1. Must be playing in clubs with big Raid budget lol.
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| 03-20-23 04:56PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
It seems international teams are being given advantages Canadian teams do not have.
From watching https://www.youtube.com/@RussianCurlingTv/streams I would guess that Russia is still using the Ice Cube that was also used in Sochi 2014 Olympics, and they're constantly livestreaming so many events there that you might as well say they practice on arena ice.
Of course now they're making their own curling stones and basic equipments etc., plus they're banned and relegated all the way down all ladders, so I wouldn't say that they're at an advantageous position right now.
Wikipedia says that Milli Piyango Curling Arena is the only curling facility in Türkiye, built for 2011 Winter Universiade but has also hosted other WCF events since. One would reasonably guess that Türkiye also practices on arena ice.
I think it's just a very different dynamic in other countries that aren't curling nation but has hosted big curling events. For Canada, from what I understand, the Olympic venue from 2010 is now long gone.
//edit: correction, apparently the Hillcrest Centre still exists, and home to Vancouver Curling Club. They did some conversion post-Olympics, but depending on what remains, I think you could maybe argue that the club practices on arena ice.
Last edited by curlingclips on 03-20-23 at 05:04PM
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| 03-20-23 05:28PM |
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Deliverer
Swing Artist
Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 471 |
quote:
Originally posted by guido
Russ Howard may be a very good curler, and very knowledgable. But, he is a terrible commentator .
I have always believed that if Vic simply stop peppering him with 300+ questions every single game, that Russ' commentary/analysis would be quite satisfactory.
Query: While on live TV, how does one tell his boss that he's not going to answer any more @#$%&+= questions and Still Survive?
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| 03-20-23 08:13PM |
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Prawnpuller
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2013
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 97 |
quote:
Originally posted by decade
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Making the girls look bad..they will have to play the game to these conditions limiting [/QUOTe
Try using the word "women". It is the same number of letters. [/B]
Or I coulda added a letter and called them “Ladies”.
You picky…….My bad
Two things can happen..one is bad
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| 03-20-23 10:20PM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
Ehhhh. I’m more sensitive than the average person and I think girls is just fine. Gushue and the boys won the Brier. Einarson and the girls won the Scotties. It’s fine. People use that term themselves. Girls, gals, ladies, champs, badass mother…s.
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