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11-18-19 03:58PM
CURLER1 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for CURLER1 Click here to Send CURLER1 a Private Message Find more posts by CURLER1 Add CURLER1 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
CURLER1
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Euro Championship - Norway won...oops, they lost....

Seems like another broom controversy.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/...eroux-1.5363504

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11-18-19 04:54PM
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What a farce. I'm curious how many curlers were aware of this rule before today. When they announced the substitution to the official, why didn't he/she perform the broom check right then and there? Why wait until the end was half over? And, why wait until the game was over to announce the forfeit. If their logic is that a rule is a rule, why let the game continue? The official that missed the immediate infraction at the outset should be suspended and removed from the tournament. Norway should appeal this. England should not accept the ruling as a sign of common sense sportsmanship.

Last edited by IN-OFF-FOR-2 on 11-18-19 at 05:01PM

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11-19-19 01:34AM
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Seems like a poorly written rule with no allowance for judgement. Definitely not in the spirit of the game. However, agree that it should be up to official; otherwise it puts onus on other team to call it out.

So what happens if there is a damage to broom head that is in play. Does the player get to repair/replace it or is s/he done?

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11-19-19 02:59AM
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According to https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...-of-Curling.pdf

C3(f): Players may not change their brush heads during a game, unless the Chief Umpire grants special permission. Penalty: If a change is made without permission, the team will forfeit the game.

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11-19-19 07:53AM
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This definitely has to be looked in to. Seems quite unfair to make a decision relative to a "win" at the end of the game when the incident, causing the forfeit, happened earlier in the game. Hmmmm.

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11-19-19 12:08PM
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Marc Bernard
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The players and coach have a responsibility to know the rules, don't they? No matter your opinion on the validity of the rule, it's still there and has to be followed.

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11-19-19 01:19PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc Bernard
The players and coach have a responsibility to know the rules, don't they? No matter your opinion on the validity of the rule, it's still there and has to be followed.


players do need to know the rules. even obscure ones. however it's a joke that they waited so long to default norway for the match. as was said earlier the official should have been on this eight away and checked the broom to make sure no rules were being broken

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11-19-19 07:00PM
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It seems like there was a breakdown in communication between those who make the rules and the athletes. A new rule like this one (with such a harsh penalty) should have been sent out to the competitive teams. Athletes and their coaches also bear some responsibility to review the rules before each season.

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11-19-19 07:41PM
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Here's a what if scenario question. We know if a player purposely smashes their broom they can not replace it and must finish the game with no broom. What would happen to this player if they do not "declare" a secondary device for throwing that was not their sweeping broom, eg corn broom or old hair broom for throwing only? Would they have to throw with no broom or could they then use a secondary device? Or, has anyone in authority even thought of this?

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11-21-19 03:31PM
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This decision has proved very costly to Norway.

At the end of the round robins they were tied at 5-4 with three other teams Denmark, Italy and Scotland. Based on head to heads Norway went out and Denmark and Scotland made the semis.

Had Norway won the England game they would have been on 6-3 and made the semi finals! So this decision denied them a place in the semis.


https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019...ing-semifinals/

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11-21-19 04:22PM
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Tomas ‘ first world junior was 1988. ( in the last century ) - has been in 12 mens worlds

30+ years - so he misses out not because of the new broom - because he lost too many other games

Its been the same 20 players for 30 years - who really cares

Classy guy and soon he will win again

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11-21-19 04:22PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Martym
This decision has proved very costly to Norway.

At the end of the round robins they were tied at 5-4 with three other teams Denmark, Italy and Scotland. Based on head to heads Norway went out and Denmark and Scotland made the semis.

Had Norway won the England game they would have been on 6-3 and made the semi finals! So this decision denied them a place in the semis.


https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019...ing-semifinals/



That really is a damn shame.

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11-21-19 05:52PM
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It's more than a shame. It's ridiculous. That official should have checked the broom when the substitution was announced. So I guess it is a shame. Shame on the official for not doing their job. They should have interpreted the rule based on the spirit of the game, fair play, and INTENT.

From the rule book

"While the main object of the game of curling is to determine the relative skill of the players, the spirit of curling demands good sportsmanship, kindly feeling and honourable conduct.This spirit should influence both the interpretation and the application of the rules of the game and also the conduct of all participants on and off the ice"

It's obvious to ALL involved there was no malice or intent to break the rules, just an official that scr@wed up and went power crazy to cover their own mistake. England should have not accepted the ruling and forced WCF to let the result stand. Blame and shame all round.

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11-21-19 11:29PM
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albetts
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
It's more than a shame. It's ridiculous. That official should have checked the broom when the substitution was announced. So I guess it is a shame. Shame on the official for not doing their job. They should have interpreted the rule based on the spirit of the game, fair play, and INTENT.

From the rule book

"While the main object of the game of curling is to determine the relative skill of the players, the spirit of curling demands good sportsmanship, kindly feeling and honourable conduct.This spirit should influence both the interpretation and the application of the rules of the game and also the conduct of all participants on and off the ice"

It's obvious to ALL involved there was no malice or intent to break the rules, just an official that scr@wed up and went power crazy to cover their own mistake. England should have not accepted the ruling and forced WCF to let the result stand. Blame and shame all round.




Really need a LIKE button on here.

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11-22-19 03:20AM
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On The Nose
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
What a farce. I'm curious how many curlers were aware of this rule before today. When they announced the substitution to the official, why didn't he/she perform the broom check right then and there? Why wait until the end was half over? And, why wait until the game was over to announce the forfeit. If their logic is that a rule is a rule, why let the game continue? The official that missed the immediate infraction at the outset should be suspended and removed from the tournament. Norway should appeal this. England should not accept the ruling as a sign of common sense sportsmanship.

^ I completely agree.
This 'ruling' falls apart at many points, and on many levels.

Including that England should absolutely refuse to accept the win. If the officials won't allow that, then England should get the other teams to support them and threaten to boycott the remainder of the event and all future WCF events. I believe that at least 95% of the teams would support this position.

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11-22-19 03:27AM
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On The Nose
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
Here's a what if scenario question. We know if a player purposely smashes their broom they can not replace it and must finish the game with no broom. What would happen to this player if they do not "declare" a secondary device for throwing that was not their sweeping broom, eg corn broom or old hair broom for throwing only? Would they have to throw with no broom or could they then use a secondary device? Or, has anyone in authority even thought of this?

Do they have to declare a throwing device?
As any throwing device (an old broom, a stabilizer, or the broom they use to sweep) cannot be altered to affect the path of the rock, why would they need to declare it?

The rule for the throwing device, as I recall, is basically that it can't be longer than 6 feet or some such. But it can be new, or used, or very, very used, etc. - because it has no effect on play.

Of course, the answer could be that they need to declare it because the officials at the WCF need to feel as important as possible... but I digress...

__________________
"It is easy in the world to live after the world’s opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own... but the great man is he who, in the midst of the crowd, keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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11-22-19 10:29AM
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Deliverer
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Yes, the official's decision was untimely and there is no reason to believe that Norway was not playing with integrity and honesty in mind.

But "Not Knowing" is simply no defense; never has been, never will be.

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