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| 12-05-22 06:56PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by hailstone
Once a tournament begins, ranking shouldn't matter.
Correct. When I said "against higher ranked teams with more wins", I basically mean "against teams with more wins".
Those teams would receive higher ranking in the standings based on having more wins.
I would never put pre-tournament world ranking into consideration. The ranking of teams for a tournament standing should be entirely based on the results from that tournament. Everything that happened before the tournament does not matter.
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| 02-09-23 05:30AM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
Somewhat related to my previous proposal on this thread of letting teams bid on how much thinking time should be on their clock at the start of a game (as a potential tiebreaker criteria), in the world of chess, people are rejoicing because Magnus Carlsen just outbid Hikaru Nakamura by 1 second.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo2b6C1CY9c&t=4h17m18s
This isn't gambling, in my opinion. It's mind games and strategy.
Carlsen who won the bid had 8m58s on his clock to play with black. Nakamura had the advantage of playing with white, and full 15m on his clock. If the game is drawn, Carlsen wins.
In curling, this would be like Edin bidding 29m59s and Gushue bidding 29m58s to start the game with a choice of 0.5 point or LSFE. Gushue won the bid by 1 second, so Gushue starts with 29m58s thinking time and 0.5 point. Edin starts with full 38m thinking time and hammer, but if the score is "tied" after 10 ends, Gushue wins by 0.5 point.
With Gushue having less time to think, and Edin having the burden to score more points to win, Edin would try to create complicated situations. It's not in his best interest to play simple and blank a few ends, because he should use his clock advantage to push Gushue into making mistakes under time pressure. If Gushue can keep up with Edin after 10 ends, or just outscore Edin outright, then Gushue deserves the win.
Last edited by curlingclips on 02-09-23 at 03:31PM
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| 02-09-23 03:35PM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
1 second is irrelevant and your example is stupid. Edin's motivation in that scenario is not to run Gushue out of time because 1 second is not enough time for any predictable advantage. If Edin dropped his broom one time and had to pick it up that would negate any time advantage. If it happened in the 10th end he'd lose the game because there goes his curling clips endorsed strategy and now he's out of time.
Chess is a finite board game, that's one of the reasons it has a huge draw problem. Curling is a physical sport without a draw problem. It may have a tie problem if you're of that perspective but that stems from the end limit not a perfection of the game. If you can't see the difference that explains a lot of your suggestions. I just wish you hadn't basically taken over every public internet forum where curling was discussed with your posts.
Last edited by oliviertoisel on 02-09-23 at 03:38PM
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| 02-09-23 06:20PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
1 second is not enough time for any predictable advantage
In this example, the loser of the bid would have the full time, just like in armagedon chess.
In Carlsen vs Nakamura, Carlsen ended up winning the bid by 1 second, but he lost 6 minutes and 2 seconds. Nakamura who lost the bid had full 15 minutes. Carlsen basically played with only 60% of Nakamura's time. That's how crazy exciting that scenario was.
I concede that my proposals are confusing because there are different ideas, not all compatible with each other. I'm just giving this example to show how bidding for time can be very exciting, and can be something we can use in curling. How to use it exactly can be discussed further.
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| 02-09-23 06:37PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
If you can't see the difference that explains a lot of your suggestions.
If Adolf Hitler dives into a pile of manure and comes out with a piece of diamond, that's still a piece of diamond regardless of where it came from and/or who found it.
We should be able to discuss the merit of bidding for thinking time in curling without attacking who came up with the idea and/or where the inspiration comes from.
Like I said, WCF is going to do something about the pace of the game, whether it's 8 ends or no extra ends or thinking time per end, etc. My proposal at least puts the control entirely in the players hands, and may achieve the desired results without WCF forcing anything on the players.
Make your own bids to win the 0.5 point. Control your own destiny. Get better at playing faster, and you can make competitive bids without risking running out of time. If you lost the bid, then get better at using the time advantage to put pressure on your opposition instead of wasting a few ends playing for easy blanks.
Last edited by curlingclips on 02-09-23 at 07:17PM
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