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05-21-22 12:56AM
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker

 

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quote:
Originally posted by hogged again
at the pro level the "walls" are foam so it's of no use

GSOC uses foam bumpers in that "controversial" clip, and it's useful enough to give Gushue a score of 3 in my fun crazy alternate universe.

I think making the bumpers unpredictable is acceptable, so foam is just fine. It's just like ice, just another unpredictable element of the game. Maybe it's not smart play to bounce off the walls all the time, but that's fine. The goal is not to encourage crazy off-the-walls hitting game. The goal is just to encourage more stones in play, hopefully leading to fewer blanks.

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05-21-22 01:32AM
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hailstone
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
The goal is not to encourage crazy off-the-walls hitting game. The goal is just to encourage more stones in play, hopefully leading to fewer blanks.

If that's the goal, then why let stones go out of play at all? Let the entire ice be in play. Play bank shots off the opposite hack. Let craziness ensue!

And get rid of that stupid rule requiring the stone to pass the hogline. If you put up an ultra-short guard, you can mess with the other team's delivery, upping the difficulty and craziness even more!

Last edited by hailstone on 05-21-22 at 01:34AM

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05-23-22 03:56AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Why even force teams to use rocks? I say, allow teams to bring eight objects of their own choosing to the rink. That way they can choose objects that will be more difficult to remove and voila you have more objects in play. The creativity will be a big draw for the TV audience.

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05-23-22 05:46AM
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Then why limit it to eight? Eighty objects would really ramp up the OIP (Objects In Play) that curling needs to hold people's interest.

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05-23-22 08:46AM
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curlingclips
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I also have a different idea of introducing neutral stones (neither red nor yellow) that are larger/heavier to complicate things, but then we'd be straying farther from traditional curling and in unnatural direction.

The "bumper curling" idea by comparison would still look very much like traditional curling, and I would argue it's a very natural direction for a change.

Find someone who doesn't understand curling and ask them to watch that "controversial bumper touch" (their words, not mine) Gushue vs Koe situation.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/curling/gu...l-bumper-touch/

I would argue that someone who has no clue about the rules of curling could easily see why Gushue would naturally score 3. It would have been much more difficult to explain to this person why Gushue maybe deserves only 1, and that 2 was somewhat "controversial", and that 3 is completely out of the question.

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05-23-22 09:18AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Maybe one stone per end should be rolled down the ice, rather than slid down the ice on it's traditional "running surface"

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05-23-22 10:30AM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by bpm
Maybe one stone per end should be rolled down the ice

That would be adding new rules to curling. Allowing rocks to bounce off the walls actually is reducing from the rules of curling.

We can remove all the rules about stones going out of play when crossing the sideline, and how they must be prevented from entering adjacent sheets, and the penalty for infractions (i.e. the Shuster rule following 2016 World Men's incident vs Japan), and the uniquely Canadian rule about what happens if your shooter hits the bumper and another stone simultaneously, etc. All of those complicated rules can be removed and the game becomes much simpler, reduced responsibility for the players, no more bumper-related controversies for the rest of eternity.

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05-23-22 11:57AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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Does a player have to declare they are throwing "bumper" weight before shooting, otherwise the opposing team inherits any unplanned rocks that hit the wall and gets to shoot them as their own? This question is rhetorical of course, how could it work otherwise.

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05-23-22 02:04PM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by bpm
Does a player have to ...

I honestly don't understand what you bpm are asking. All I'm proposing ultimately is this: stones only go out of play if they cross the backline. Sidelines are now required to be solid bumpers (foam, wood, doesn't matter), and stones can bounce off the bumpers and will not go out of play (until they cross the backline).

That's it. No more changes to the rule, other than getting rid of all sideline-related non-sense. Maybe we can add No Tick Zone, but that's a separate conversation we can have, evidenced by the fact that WCF did trial that rule at 2022 Worlds.

//edit: here's another example.

Under my solid bumper proposal, this shot from 2022 Brier from Marc Kennedy would only remove 1 red stone instead of 3. The 2 red stones that did not cross the backline would remain in play, including the 1 red that came back as a biter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT66cm6ClKk&t=1h53m8s

Similarly, this 2011 quad from Kaitlyn Lawes would instead leave a biter, namely the stone that bounced off the wall and did not cross the backline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2U_ZywzMR0

As you can imagine, a high guard becomes much more potent now because it's borderline impossible to peel it and have both the guard and the shooter cross the backline to go out of play. An easy routine defensive call now becomes very tricky indeed.

Last edited by curlingclips on 05-23-22 at 03:45PM

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05-24-22 05:01AM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

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I'm entertaining myself by using absurdity to illustrate how ridiculous your proposal is. You've done some great research. It's still a terrible idea.

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05-24-22 10:19AM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by bpm
It's still a terrible idea.

Elaborate why.

For example, when you bpm said that they should make players roll one stone on its side in each end, I would say that it's adding new rules to the sport that is unnatural and completely unexpected to a viewer who has no clue about curling.

On the other hand, solid bumper curling actually simplifies the rules of the game and it naturally follows the laws of physics by just letting the stones go do their own things without human intervention.

Please explain why that is a terrible idea.

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05-24-22 02:11PM
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hogged again
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips


Please explain why that is a terrible idea.



It's terrible because it encourages riskier behaviour.. Our club alone has had 4 broken feet and 1 amputation from people getting caught between the rock and the boards (in our club the boards are poured concrete). And that was just last year!!!!!!! Go to SKIN.com (Stop Kurling Injuries Now) for details.

Last edited by hogged again on 05-24-22 at 02:24PM

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05-24-22 02:54PM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by hogged again
It's terrible because it encourages riskier behaviour

I've seen enough footage of people tripping over the foam and stones on the sheet to know that yes, this rule can lead to more injuries, but you can say that about any rule that encourages more rocks in play.

Olympic gold medalist John Landsteiner once tripped on a corner guard that he put there himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhktGjaKgYA

So are we now saying that corner guards are dangerous trip hazards and should not be allowed?

Sarah Wilkes once tripped over a messy house.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DomSCdutnsg

So are we now saying that the house is not allowed to be messy because it's too dangerous?

I acknowledge that sweepers would need to adjust to having more rocks in play on the sheet, and they may be more injuries unless they adapt, but once they do, it'd be fine. Yes, sweepers may be less effective because they can't sweep as much, but that's the case now anyways, and less sweeping leads to more misses which can lead to exciting games in itself.

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05-24-22 10:47PM
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hogged again
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips

I've seen enough footage of people tripping over the foam and stones on the sheet to know that yes, this rule can lead to more injuries, but you can say that about any rule that encourages more rocks in play.

Olympic gold medalist John Landsteiner once tripped on a corner guard that he put there himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhktGjaKgYA

So are we now saying that corner guards are dangerous trip hazards and should not be allowed?

Sarah Wilkes once tripped over a messy house.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DomSCdutnsg

So are we now saying that the house is not allowed to be messy because it's too dangerous?

I acknowledge that sweepers would need to adjust to having more rocks in play on the sheet, and they may be more injuries unless they adapt, but once they do, it'd be fine. Yes, sweepers may be less effective because they can't sweep as much, but that's the case now anyways, and less sweeping leads to more misses which can lead to exciting games in itself.



You don't even read posts do you? Just pick a line you want and blather on as per usual.
My last 2 posts here were completely ludicrous, one claiming that bank shots are allowed between the hoglines and the other saying amputations had resulted from rocks crushing feet into concrete sides. Yet off you went, quoting them before expanding on your endless rule proposals to ruin the game and garner feedback. Facebook.

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05-25-22 01:01AM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by hogged again
You don't even read posts do you? [...] My last 2 posts here were completely ludicrous [...]

Believe it or not, I'm not interested in trolling and making "ludicrous" (your word, hogged again, not mine) posts. I'm interested in having a thoughtful discussion.

If you hogged again believes that solid bumper will ruin the game, then please explain how.

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05-25-22 01:41PM
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hogged again
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips

Believe it or not, I'm not interested in trolling and making "ludicrous" (your word, hogged again, not mine) posts.



LMAO.In denial much facebook?

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