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03-18-19 05:47PM
curlerbroad is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlerbroad Click here to Send curlerbroad a Private Message Find more posts by curlerbroad Add curlerbroad to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlerbroad
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Another closing

Not another one, at least Glendale curlers had some notice.

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...early-60-years/

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03-19-19 03:21PM
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MeaghanEdwards
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Sad to see (I live in Hamilton). The Thistle Club is also gone.

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03-21-19 10:45AM
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If I were looking around today to join a curling club my first question would no longer be "what are the annual dues" but how many members do you have". Why? Because recent history strongly suggests that if a club's membership is in the 200 - 225 range and there are six or more sheets of ice, my shelf life there may not extend beyond the current year.

With regard to the club which recently closed in the Hamilton area, I understand less than one half of the membership have indicated they will continue to curl elsewhere come September '19. Fortunately there are several other clubs in the vicinity so lack of choice will not be a problem. ( Just don't pick the wrong one! )

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03-21-19 02:22PM
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nelsosi
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quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
If I were looking around today to join a curling club my first question would no longer be "what are the annual dues" but how many members do you have". Why? Because recent history strongly suggests that if a club's membership is in the 200 - 225 range and there are six or more sheets of ice, my shelf life there may not extend beyond the current year.

With regard to the club which recently closed in the Hamilton area, I understand less than one half of the membership have indicated they will continue to curl elsewhere come September '19. Fortunately there are several other clubs in the vicinity so lack of choice will not be a problem. ( Just don't pick the wrong one! )



Seems to me that most of the recent closings have been in facilities that are attached to golf clubs, where curlers tend to be considered second class.

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03-21-19 08:48PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nelsosi


Seems to me that most of the recent closings have been in facilities that are attached to golf clubs, where curlers tend to be considered second class.



Sadly yes...however these golf clubs better start offering more or they could be turned into housing developments or parks

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03-27-19 07:39PM
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Deliverer
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quote:
Originally posted by nelsosi


Seems to me that most of the recent closings have been in facilities that are attached to golf clubs, where curlers tend to be considered second class.



With regard to the Golf and Country Clubs in the GTA which ended up closing their own curling facilities, it would appear that in each case the curling club operation itself was not viable and unfortunately, the curling club executives were unable to make it viable. Additionally, in each case, the writing was on the wall, in capital letters, for many years so when you pull back the covers the curling club executives either did not understand the gravity of the situation or they simply failed to take the necessary steps to ensure the club's survival. Either way it was just a matter of time.

Golf and Country Clubs, like any corporation, must follow sound policies, procedures and practices to survive and be profitable. They are not eleemosynary institutions. And yes, it's unfortunate when closures do occur and curlers may be forced to move to another club but that should hardly be characterized as armageddon 101.

The idea that, as a rule of thumb, Golf and County Clubs tend to treat the curling membership as "second class" seems , at best, far-fetched. Who in their right mind would actually want to maintain their membership year after year in a club where they are discriminated against, where they don't feel welcome and where they are perceived as "second class"?
And conversely, why would any reputable Golf and Country Club want or allow any of their members to be treated in this manner?

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03-28-19 11:19AM
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curlerbroad
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quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer


With regard to the Golf and Country Clubs in the GTA which ended up closing their own curling facilities, it would appear that in each case the curling club operation itself was not viable and unfortunately, the curling club executives were unable to make it viable. Additionally, in each case, the writing was on the wall, in capital letters, for many years so when you pull back the covers the curling club executives either did not understand the gravity of the situation or they simply failed to take the necessary steps to ensure the club's survival. Either way it was just a matter of time.

Golf and Country Clubs, like any corporation, must follow sound policies, procedures and practices to survive and be profitable. They are not eleemosynary institutions. And yes, it's unfortunate when closures do occur and curlers may be forced to move to another club but that should hardly be characterized as armageddon 101.

The idea that, as a rule of thumb, Golf and County Clubs tend to treat the curling membership as "second class" seems , at best, far-fetched. Who in their right mind would actually want to maintain their membership year after year in a club where they are discriminated against, where they don't feel welcome and where they are perceived as "second class"?
And conversely, why would any reputable Golf and Country Club want or allow any of their members to be treated in this manner?



Actually one of those that cancelled their curling was viable. There was a hugely successful learn to curl clinic a very successful open house in March in which close to 100 people showed up. Some old naysayers were leaving which was bringing a more positive energy to the curling section. Nope it was a few board of directors who for some reason hated curling that ended it. Financial figures show that curling was viable.

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03-30-19 09:28AM
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Deliverer
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quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad


Actually one of those that cancelled their curling was viable. There was a hugely successful learn to curl clinic a very successful open house in March in which close to 100 people showed up. Some old naysayers were leaving which was bringing a more positive energy to the curling section. Nope it was a few board of directors who for some reason hated curling that ended it. Financial figures show that curling was viable.



After the accountants had completed their Financial Viability and Sustainability Analysis some five years earlier, it was clear, or it should have been clear, that a consistent, minimal membership level of 400 was an absolutely necessity in order to sustain the club's long-term viability. The basic problem, however, was that they were never able to achieve/realize a membership level close to that number, let alone maintain it.

The fact that the club held a successful curling clinic in March was somewhat encouraging, but that was pretty well negated In August, 2018, when all of the curling members were informed they were facing a whopping 30% increase in annual fees. The immediate impact of that announcement was, as you know, Devastating and a harbinger of what was to follow.

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03-30-19 11:19AM
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The legendary West Kildonan Curling Club of WInnipeg closed its doors less than 2 years ago.

Was shuttered and vacant since - but just noticed its been turned into a Roller Rink.

The West K was the main curling club in North End Winnipeg (huge population) and was preceded by the closure of the Maple Leaf CC in 1970-71.

The Victoria CC closed 3 or 4 years back - it was borderline north end, located on William less than a mile west of winnipeg's largest hospital (Health Sciences Centre) so essentially the north end had no curling clubs for the last couple years.

Arnold Asham may still be operating the old Thistle/Valour Road club on Burnell but thats West End, close to Wpg's downtown.

The venerable Granite CC is still running, close to the downtown and Osborne Village.

Other Winnipeg (hotbed of curling) closures include the Strathcona on Maryland (decades ago), Grain Exchange, Civic Caledonian.

When a club closes its certainly a crisis for some - as a portion quit curling entirely but an opportunity for other clubs to up their membership and become more financially solid.

ie. Granite, Ft. Rouge, the new Fort Garry, Heather, Rossmere, EK, Transcona, Pembina.

Winnipeg has had one new curling club built in last 25 years - the new Fort Garry on Marion street. . . . .but has lost over 10 clubs (perhaps as many as 12 or 13) since 1971.

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03-31-19 10:43AM
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ML, you’ve hit the nail on the head...when their club closes, many simply quit. A 10 minute drive has turned into 30 to go to another club. For a once a week recreational curler, it’s not worth it.

I’ve gone from 10 min to 25 min on a toll road...but I like having a fun winter activity so I won’t quit.

Some of my former curling colleagues joined a very busy club & complain how crowded it is. Others love the busy environment...bottom line club closures = people leaving the sport.

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03-31-19 11:52AM
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Don't know what the percentage of folks who quit vs. change clubs (longer travel & traffic congestion at certain times) but my guess would be:

For every 100 effected by a curling club closure:

- 50 quit the game outright
- 30 join another facility
- 20 remain in limbo (looking for a team, taking a year off, etc.)

Interesting to note that the concept of a Golf & Curling Country Club is kinda foreign in curling rich Winnipeg.

Only club that now has both golf & curling on the same premises is Rossmere - and they've been going strong as long as I can remember. I was a member there in the 70s but only because my main club dissolved (land & bldg. sold). Most of the members were golfers & curlers (maybe 75% overlap) and thats great for the financial bottom-line. Rossmere even hosted the Canadian juniors - I remember covering it for a local outlet - Chris Pidzarko was the Manitoba rep.

One other Winnipeg club had golf & curling - Wildwood (home club of John Bubbs) but no more. The facility was sold for development (condos) a few years back.

fwiw - my little theory on golf & curling. Winnipeg expanded greatly from 1880 to 1940s as a great place for euro immigrants, even lots of Scottish & English, Polish & Ukrainian immigrants. The golf clubs were fairly elitist and immigrants from other lands were simply not welcome at these clubs by redneck locals. So they gravitated to burgeoning curling clubs - where there was almost one on every corner (from the 20s thru 60s anyways) and were welcomed with open arms. Curling became far more diverse than golf in Winnipeg.

Great winter diversion which golf couldn't provide (basically golf season in Winnipeg area is May thru late September, only 4 to 5 months)

Some curlers did want to try golf and fortunately there were many public golf facilities in Winnipeg (Kildonan Park, Tuxedo, Canoe Club, Crescent Drive, etc.) where green fees were low and while the courses weren't challening it was still golf.

Some clubs in Winnipeg, including the venerable St. Charles were operated by total racists, Jews and other short races were simply not permitted on premises. Likewise, the Jewish Club, Glendale restricted its membership to Jews.

Now due to declining memberships St. Charles allows a share of affluent Jews (doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs) and Glendale is open to just about everyone. Both require fairly substantial share purchases (for Wpg.) of anywhere from $3,500 to $10,000 to come aboard. I'm sure hoity-toity clubs in Ontario, BC, Calgary & Edmonton do likewise!

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04-01-19 03:27PM
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FYI MLegend

Rossmere doesn't have curling, something happened to their infrastructure.
Transcona CC closed long time back.
Asham sold Valour Road to the Thistle people after their club burned down.

Not surprised when clubs close anymore, our leagues have maybe 25% players under 40, most well over 50 and the renter leagues have almost no young people.

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04-01-19 04:40PM
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Checked the Rossmore web site and it still shows curling as a membership option. Same thing with Transcona CC - owned by a sketchy Wpg entrepreneur named Al Golden.

Transcona serves as a hub for banquets, socials, anything alcohol-related. So long as curling pays some bills and spends money on food & liquor Golden won't boot them out.

Just about forgot about Jennifer Jones original club - St. Vital, located right next to a very large Real Canadian Superstore. (you can shop between ends - or shots if your name is Kevin Koe)

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04-01-19 04:44PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hogged again
FYI MLegend

Rossmere doesn't have curling, something happened to their infrastructure.
Transcona CC closed long time back.
Asham sold Valour Road to the Thistle people after their club burned down.

Not surprised when clubs close anymore, our leagues have maybe 25% players under 40, most well over 50 and the renter leagues have almost no young people.



I'm suprised Asham hasn't made a play on any other failing Winnipeg curling club. Setting it up as a centre for Curling excellence. Asham & Manitoba premier Brian Pallister are well-acquainted with each other - I'm sure Asham may not have the base funds required to build a fresh curling club - like Kevin Martin's Centre in Edmonton but Pallister might provide seed money or more likely underwrite a reasonable mortage.

But you're right. Thistle burned down - I was friends with Fred Lay and moved to Valour Rd. down the street - which Asham had purchased years before. I'll trust your info that Asham has no financial interest in that facility. (original home of the Gunnlaugson family, all-nite junior bonspiels)

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04-01-19 06:23PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Checked the Rossmore web site and it still shows curling as a membership option. Same thing with Transcona CC - owned by a sketchy Wpg entrepreneur named Al Golden.

Transcona serves as a hub for banquets, socials, anything alcohol-related. So long as curling pays some bills and spends money on food & liquor Golden won't boot them out.





Rossmere website under curling has notice of suspension of curling this year due to pipe problems. No word on whether they will fix problem and reopen.

As for Transcona, there has been no curling ice there for at least 25 years.

Few more clubs to add to your closed list. There were a couple forces rinks-CFB Westin (Weston?Westwin?) and another by Lipsett Hall (CFB Fort something). And don't forget the biggest, the good old Highlander with 12 sheets for renters, 6 for Strathcona and 6 more for Maple Leaf.

Last edited by hogged again on 04-02-19 at 01:57PM

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04-06-19 05:41PM
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Sign this petition to get more curling ice in Toronto

http://chng.it/8nGmxhDxMk

Thank you

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04-06-19 05:51PM
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Manitoba PC party (Professional cons) under Pallister just got caught with their pants down - spending $174,000 on billboard advertising to tell local yokels they're lowering the PST (provincial sales tax) from 8% to 7% on July 1st, 2019

1/3 of that money - $58,000 could have re-done the pipes at Rossmere Curling Club - and kept curling going at that nice East Kildonan, Winnipeg golf & curling club.

PC's under Pallister (a horrid 6'9" farmboy curler in the 70s & early 80s) have grinched up on the lowest and most needy income groups while coming up with programs to benefit their friends and ugly-lovelies!

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