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| 12-28-21 01:14PM |
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alex
Swing Artist
Registered: Sep 2011
Location: Quesnel
Posts: 420 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlky
You assume the issue is simply players. What you do not know, and I do not know as well, is if there was an issue with staff, who are primarily volunteers. Did they have enough officials, timers, and ice makers who would potentially risk themselves in an environment that some (maybe not you but some) might consider risky.
If that is the case it would have been easy enough to say so. I don't see why they could say Wayne Tuck tested positive but can't or won't say who else did?
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| 12-28-21 01:47PM |
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hogged again
Drawmaster
Registered: Mar 2019
Location:
Posts: 659 |
Surprise surprise, no accountability from Curl Canada.
They say that covid caused them to cancel and there is no time to reschedule and they will pick the team.
Nowhere in their statement do they take responsibility for scheduling the event at the last second even though in covid times they should have built in room to reschedule if necessary. Nowhere do they apologize to the 40 curlers who's Olympic dreams have been crushed by their bad planning. This is on them but they will never admit it.
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| 12-28-21 02:35PM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
All the accounting is public record on their website.
Not financial accountability Gerry. Accountability on how many teams tested positive. Accountability on the process being followed to select the MD teams. Accountability to be above board.
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| 12-28-21 10:06PM |
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Hack Weight
Hitting Paint
Registered: Dec 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 131 |
Curling Canada strikes me as the classic stuck in old times organization. Plenty of middle managers taking salaries, no actual creativity, foresight or utility.
Holding the MD trial less than 2 months from the Olympics, amidst a pandemic, was reckless to begin with. They basically gave themselves little to no room for movement in case of (a completely foreseeable) need to postpone the event. It also doesn’t sound like they are actively trying to schedule any, even abbreviated, playdown.
So instead, because of CC’s incompetence, people get their Olympic chance taken away. Picking a team isn’t the same as having the team qualify by winning an event. There’s also something ridiculous about (a) CC being unable to host an event in December, but (b) CC selecting a team to compete at an event in February.
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| 12-28-21 10:30PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
quote:
Originally posted by Hack Weight
Curling Canada strikes me as the classic stuck in old times organization. Plenty of middle managers taking salaries, no actual creativity, foresight or utility.
Holding the MD trial less than 2 months from the Olympics, amidst a pandemic, was reckless to begin with. They basically gave themselves little to no room for movement in case of (a completely foreseeable) need to postpone the event. It also doesn’t sound like they are actively trying to schedule any, even abbreviated, playdown.
So instead, because of CC’s incompetence, people get their Olympic chance taken away. Picking a team isn’t the same as having the team qualify by winning an event. There’s also something ridiculous about (a) CC being unable to host an event in December, but (b) CC selecting a team to compete at an event in February.
AGAIN...... where is the like button. Is there’s something afoul here? Methinks there’s much going on behind the scenes. If I were a conspiracy theorist... I’d say people behind the scenes wanted to save the almighty dollar, AND send their pick..... Things that make you say hmm. IF THEY PICK a md team, it should be Lott and his partner. NOT the slam points based on TEAM results. Pick the best md team other than those already qualified for the Olympics.
Discuss.
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| 12-28-21 10:58PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
FACTS!
During this Olympic cycle, these are the mixed doubles teams that have represented Canada at WCF-sanctioned events.
2018 World Championship: Laura Walker/Kirk Muyres (bronze)
2019 World Championship: Jocelyn Peterman/Brett Gallant (silver)
2021 World Championship: Kerri Einarson/Brad Gushue (4th)
2018-2019 World Cup-1: Laura Walker/Kirk Muyres (gold)
2018-2019 World Cup-2: Kalynn Park/John Morris (5th)
2018-2019 World Cup-3: Kadriana Sahaidak/Colton Lott (gold)
2018-2019 World Cup-Grand Final: Laura Walker/Kirk Muyres (silver), Kadriana Sahaidak/Colton Lott (4th)
MY OPINION: Walker/Muyres is the most experienced mixed doubles team at WCF events representing Canada, and has had the best results, always medal in every attempt.
They made playoff at 2019 and 2021 Canadian Mixed Doubles Championships, both times losing to eventual winners.
Who says which team is best, but if you look at the resume of what each mixed doubles team has done for Canada during this Olympic cycle, Walker/Muyres truly stands out as the most accomplished.
Last edited by curlingclips on 12-28-21 at 11:18PM
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| 12-29-21 12:24AM |
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Maggie
Hitting Paint
Registered: Feb 2020
Location:
Posts: 156 |
quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
IF THEY PICK a md team, it should be Lott and his partner.
Discuss.
Nah. It should be Kadriana Sahaidak and her partner.
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| 12-29-21 12:31AM |
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guido
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1418 |
If a team has to be picked it should be a team that doesn’t have a member that has Covid.
If the competition was still a go, these teams would not be able to play, so would be disqualified.
__________________
It’s me!
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| 12-29-21 08:00AM |
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Observer
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2016
Location: River Falls, WI, USA
Posts: 445 |
On the contrary, I should think picking a team that currently has Omicron COVID might be a good idea. They’ll be over it in a few days and they’ll then have a bloodstream full of Omicron antibodies making it very improbable they’ll come down with it again once they get to China in a few weeks.
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| 12-29-21 09:39AM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
quote:
Originally posted by Maggie
Nah. It should be Kadriana Sahaidak and her partner.
Good one. I couldn’t remember how to spell her name without going back to look it up
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| 12-29-21 10:18AM |
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Deliverer
Swing Artist
Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 471 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
Walker/Muyres has earned 3 WCF-sanctioned medals for Canada in this Olympic cycle: bronze at 2018 WMDCC, gold at 2018 CWC-1 (Suzhou, China), and silver at 2019 CWC-GF (Beijing, China).
To me, this is the obvious choice, if we're looking at resume at international mixed doubles event together as a team during this quadrennial.
I disagree. W/M are definitely not an 'obvious' first choice. At this particular time, I'd rate them our 3rd or 4th best choice primarily because their overall performance - since '18 and '19 - has tailed off appreciably.
For example, in the 2021 Canadian Mixed Doubles Championship, they were unbeatable in Pool play, but then, when they had to run with the big dogs, the wheels quickly fell off and they lost successive matches to Weagle/Epping, Schmiemann/Morris and Einarson/Gushue.
Clearly, what Canada will need in the upcoming Olympics is a team which is now at or close to its peak, a team that has at least reached the semifinals of a major in '21, and that, unfortunately, is not W/M.
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| 12-29-21 10:30AM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
W/M are definitely not an 'obvious' first choice
You cut off my quote where I presented my reasoning. I said they're the obvious choice if we look at what each mixed double team has done for Canada in this Olympic cycle.
Walker/Muyres earned 3 medals for Canada in 3 attempts.
I'm not saying they're the best team or anything like that, but this is one distinguishing characteristic this team has that no other team even come close to. It's based on verifiable results, counting actual medals instead of points generated by an arbitrary mathematical formula or other intangibles.
Last edited by curlingclips on 12-29-21 at 10:53AM
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| 12-29-21 10:39AM |
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MeaghanEdwards
Drawmaster
Registered: Aug 2018
Location:
Posts: 699 |
quote:
Originally posted by Observer
On the contrary, I should think picking a team that currently has Omicron COVID might be a good idea. They’ll be over it in a few days and they’ll then have a bloodstream full of Omicron antibodies making it very improbable they’ll come down with it again once they get to China in a few weeks.
That's if they don't have Long Covid.
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| 12-29-21 12:01PM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
quote:
Originally posted by decade
Not financial accountability Gerry. Accountability on how many teams tested positive. Accountability on the process being followed to select the MD teams. Accountability to be above board.
But what do your tax dollars have to do with that? CC certainly owes a full explanation for this decision to its members and absolutely needs full accountability to those members on its selection process, but not taxpayers generally. Receiving some government money doesn't open an organization up to Joe Public and his self-interested whims; otherwise every taxpayer could demand to audit and control every business that ever received a cent from some program.
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| 12-29-21 01:43PM |
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decade
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962 |
quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
But what do your tax dollars have to do with that? CC certainly owes a full explanation for this decision to its members and absolutely needs full accountability to those members on its selection process, but not taxpayers generally. Receiving some government money doesn't open an organization up to Joe Public and his self-interested whims; otherwise every taxpayer could demand to audit and control every business that ever received a cent from some program.
There is financial accountability . Auditor General of Canada and Office of the Auditor General in my province of Ontario. People have short memories- the WE scandal as an example of what can occur when people that receive govt handouts are given a free rein.
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| 12-29-21 01:47PM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
quote:
Originally posted by decade
There is financial accountability . Auditor General of Canada and Office of the Auditor General in my province of Ontario. People have short memories- the WE scandal as an example of what can occur when people that receive govt handouts are given a free rein.
I know there's financial accountability. It's literally the last few posts including the one of yours I'm responding to. But you've explicitly said that's not what you're talking about : "Not financial accountability, Gerry" so I responded about the other forms of accountability and why being a tax payer doesn't entitle you to them.
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| 12-29-21 02:38PM |
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Deliverer
Swing Artist
Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 471 |
curlingclips,
What i quoted was the entire
blurb you posted on 12-26-21 at 6.01 PM.
It's on Page 3 of this thread.
Check it out, please!! and having done that, perhaps you could address the thrust of my blurb dated 12-29-21 at 10:18 AM, namely: what Canada will need in the upcoming Olympics is a team which is now at or close to its peak, a team that has at least reached the semifinals of a major in '21.
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| 12-29-21 02:53PM |
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Gerry
CZ Founder
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 4002 |
quote:
Originally posted by decade
Not financial accountability Gerry. Accountability on how many teams tested positive. Accountability on the process being followed to select the MD teams. Accountability to be above board.
I'm not sure why you think they need to be accountable to the public?
They are accountable to their stakeholders, namely Own the Podium and Sport Canada to make a decision that will lead to success in China.
They are also accountable to the athletes who will put up the fight to ensure the process is fairly (as possible) managed as well.
Not everyone will agree with the decisions made especially in a case like this where there is no obvious choice. This is why pandering to public opinion is generally impossible here. There is no "right" decision for everyone.
I don't envy this choice and I feel for so many deserving teams who don't get the chance to play it out on the ice.
Should they have cancelled the event? I don't know. But with the timing they had to make and the requirements to make ice and all that, they made the best decision they could. Very different process from a club tournament in Europe. 3-4 days to get the ice ready and planning to put all the processes in place meant the final decision had to be made 3-4 days ahead.
Things are changing very quickly and so far news on Omicron has been very good, but it will have to lead us to change in how we're looking at testing and isolation.
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| 12-29-21 03:36PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by Deliverer
what Canada will need in the upcoming Olympics is a team which is now at or close to its peak, a team that has at least reached the semifinals of a major in '21.
If that's the criteria, then sure, Walker/Muyres is eliminated.
I presented a different criteria which is simply how many medals the team has earned for Canada in this Olympic cycle.
I'm not going to debate which criteria is better, but mine does produce an obvious choice, and is highly relevant to the goal of selecting a mixed doubles team to get a medal for Canada.
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| 12-29-21 04:13PM |
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oliviertoisel
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2021
Location:
Posts: 587 |
What just happened at the hockey men's World Juniors is likely giving Curling Canada a lot of satisfaction despite the arm chair grinches around here.
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| 01-01-22 02:12PM |
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jamcan
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340 |
We have an obvious and logical solution staring right at us.
The MD CTRS. It was created to rank teams based on merit achieved through on ice accomplishments.
Therefore, using the system and the rules about the 4 man teams the team of Martin/Griffiths should be our Olympic reps and no one else.
They may not be everyone's first choice (God knows the idiots on the Inside Curling Facebook group sure whine about it), but they earned their position and thus earned the spot in lieu of a competition to decide otherwise.
Deviating from this puts into question the need to even have any sort of playdown or ranking system. In short, if we're not going to use it, then what good is it? And why waste time or money on it?
It's also worth noting that 4man an MD CTRS were created mainly by the athlete's so it should be trusted and used in this situation.
__________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter S. Thompson
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| 01-01-22 03:15PM |
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Curlwalker
Hitting Paint
Registered: Jan 2015
Location:
Posts: 109 |
MD Rankings on this site
Don't understand the rankings...Dodds and Mouat are world champions but do not even appear on the list?
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| 01-01-22 03:25PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
Re: MD Rankings on this site
quote:
Originally posted by Curlwalker
Don't understand the rankings...Dodds and Mouat are world champions but do not even appear on the list?
CTRS is CANADIAN only.
Hence the C
The rankings link at the top of this page is the 1 year and 2 year running total for the WCF. World rankings vs Canadian rankings.
Last edited by IN-OFF-FOR-2 on 01-01-22 at 03:27PM
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| 01-01-22 03:58PM |
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Curlwalker
Hitting Paint
Registered: Jan 2015
Location:
Posts: 109 |
Ranking game
My problem with rankings. Martin/Griffiths may be the best but according to the rules you carry your points as an individual no matter who you play with so can Laing and Weagle get together and claim more CTRS points then Martin/Griffiths? Also during a pandemic when travel is restricted do we reward those who have qualifying events near their home towns? I would not want to be the one choosing a Canadian rep...there will always be arguments no matter how you come up with names. That is why we have playdowns.
However other countries just designate teams and do O.K.
I will just be happy if the Olympics get played at all.
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| 01-01-22 06:25PM |
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curlky
Drawmaster
Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 559 |
Re: Ranking game
quote:
Originally posted by Curlwalker
I will just be happy if the Olympics get played at all.
Guessing a 0.0001% chance that China allows the Olympics to be cancelled.
But to the topic, your point about the pandemic and travel, with events being cancelled often, if there is a year where rankings mean little, this would be it.
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