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04-25-20 09:03AM
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CURLER1
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnysmoke

You sure? That's the exact statement that proved so embarrassing for Stoughton. He's still trying to live it down 15 years later.



100% sure.

With Russ added, after Stoughton made his comment, that changed the whole dyamic.(2006)

After Russ left, they never won a Brier until 2017. Or a Grand Slam until 2010.

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04-25-20 11:10AM
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https://www.sportsnet.ca/curling/20...l-history-pt-1/



Howard was on the team after the end of the previous season as stated in this great article. Therefore Stoughton yapped with Howard already on board.

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04-25-20 11:45AM
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Yes I was sure Howard was on Gushue's team when Jeffy made that comment. That's why it was such a big deal at the time. Now Stoughton was probably not the only one to feel that way at the time but to express it out loud was kinda bold I thought.

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04-25-20 12:18PM
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hogged again
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quote:
Originally posted by prairie guy
Yes I was sure Howard was on Gushue's team when Jeffy made that comment. That's why it was such a big deal at the time. Now Stoughton was probably not the only one to feel that way at the time but to express it out loud was kinda bold I thought.


I'm sure Stoughton is sick of hearing about and wishes he hadn't said it but then again if he made the roll on a hit late in the game he probably goes to the Olympics and no one would bring it up.

Last edited by hogged again on 04-25-20 at 12:21PM

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04-25-20 07:00PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hogged again


I'm sure Stoughton is sick of hearing about and wishes he hadn't said it but then again if he made the roll on a hit late in the game he probably goes to the Olympics and no one would bring it up.





It's the classic case of "it's ok to think it, but don't say it out loud"

I'm certain we've all done it.

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04-26-20 10:46AM
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anyone get a black mail letter from silviarro that knows your cz password

wants bitcoin

seems to know a coup0le orf or all? my passwords

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04-26-20 12:03PM
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quote:
Originally posted by fresca
anyone get a black mail letter from silviarro that knows your cz password

wants bitcoin

seems to know a coup0le orf or all? my passwords


Is he telling you he sees your browsing history, "you dirty old man." (Or something like that.)
Delete.

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04-26-20 02:21PM
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fresca
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Yes

He has tapes of me from my non existent cam.

Thursadays scam was a phone call thatmy hydro was being cut off - but no address , and i have lots of bldgs butalway# pay. By auto pay

Anotherone last week also knew my password - different pw from first above but matched the site aswell

Have about20 pw. But thinking none are safe

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04-27-20 10:11AM
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dinorock2005
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quote:
Originally posted by fresca
Yes

He has tapes of me from my non existent cam.

Thursadays scam was a phone call thatmy hydro was being cut off - but no address , and i have lots of bldgs butalway# pay. By auto pay

Anotherone last week also knew my password - different pw from first above but matched the site aswell

Have about20 pw. But thinking none are safe

I had the CRA scam call a while back.
Plus if anyone asks you to pay your "debt" in gift cards....

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05-10-20 05:29PM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
I also think it would be great if the replayed all the Canadian Olympic qualifying playoff games. Start back in 88 and go right through to 2018



I emailed TSN after this bit of whining and wishful thinking, now they're showing roar of the rings replays. Coincidence? I think not

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05-10-20 06:15PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2



I emailed TSN after this bit of whining and wishful thinking, now they're showing roar of the rings replays. Coincidence? I think not




I also messaged TSN about showing older games.

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05-10-20 06:24PM
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It was good to see the 2009 mens trials final being replayed on TSN.... I remember at the time not confident at all that the Howard team would win that final when Howard missed a makeable runback in the 2nd end and gave Martin 2 I had a feeling of "here we go again"... That game was never close Martin had control of that game the whole way.. That Martin team wasn't going to be denied... that was when they were at their peak... Ive always thought that Martin team was the best team Ive seen since 2000... Even though Gushue has won 3 of the last 4 briers I think that martin team was a bit more dominant...

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05-10-20 07:07PM
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I just think the Canadian trials to go to the Olympics is by far the toughest to win anywhere in the world. Some countries have nominated teams, Some 1-2 teams, Some have at the VERY most 3/4 teams. Canada has 15-20 teams.

Should curling be like cross country skiing with 5-6 athletes/teams competing per country like Norway?

Or bobsled from Germany? Why do they get multiple teams/ participants.

Discuss.

Why shouldn't Canada have more than one team?

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05-10-20 07:36PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
I just think the Canadian trials to go to the Olympics is by far the toughest to win anywhere in the world. Some countries have nominated teams, Some 1-2 teams, Some have at the VERY most 3/4 teams. Canada has 15-20 teams.

Should curling be like cross country skiing with 5-6 athletes/teams competing per country like Norway?

Or bobsled from Germany? Why do they get multiple teams/ participants.


Discuss.

Why shouldn't Canada have more than one team?



I believe that it has to do with the time it takes to play games, and the amount of games that can be played at once. Most, if not all sports that have multiple representatives from one country do not involve one on one match-ups that take two or three hours to complete, like curling, hockey, basketball, etc. Bobsled is a team sport that has multiple representative teams from one country, but the teams don't go up against each other one at a time, as it is a timed event. Therefore, they can have 25 or 30 teams in the event. Curling, as an example, needs to keep their number of teams down to 10 or 12, if they want to do a full round-robin in a reasonable one week-ish event, or the Olympics. You could go to the Brier/Scotties way of doing things, I guess, with multiple pools, but I think the curling powers-that-be would be more inclined to add extra nations rather than a Canada 2 team. If you really want multiple teams, at say the world championships, maybe you give an extra berth to each nation that finishes in the top 3 in the previous worlds, add them to the 13 teams already in, and you have 16 teams, 2 pools of 8, and the Brier/Scotties format. I don't think it would happen at the Olympics, because of the 17 day window and other factors.

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05-10-20 08:24PM
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You might as well ask why shouldn't Manitoba has multiple teams at the Scotties/Brier. I mean, that is already sort of happening with Wildcard and Team Canada, and some traditionalists are vocally against that (e.g. Warren Hansen in Inside Curling, episode 1 I think? https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...ng/id1509051095 ).

Canadians gave lots of grief to Team Gauthier (MB2) for winning 2020 Canadian Juniors without winning Manitoba. That's going to be the new normal now since they've changed the format to allow extra provincial teams for the host and the "elites", and I'm sure some people are unhappy about that (ref: https://curlsask.ca/2020/04/15/upda...hampionships-2/ ).

But yeah, the logistics is the main reason. Curling takes a significant chunk of time at the Olympics. It's the only sport that runs the entire duration of the event. Heck, mixed doubles had to start a day before opening ceremony already!

My guess is that before multiple teams per country at the Olympics, we'd first have to normalize multiple provinces at the Brier/Scotties, and shorten each game to 8 ends (which is already an inevitable eventuality).

Last edited by curlingclips on 05-10-20 at 08:56PM

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05-10-20 10:34PM
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Easy there curling lips/ ML

How can you say you're new to curling yet spout Manitoba stats like you're Moose Turnbull?

Hmmm

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05-10-20 11:30PM
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Canada swept 2020 World Juniors, both teams are MB (Gauthier is technically MB2, but whatever).

Cathy Gauthier noted that this is part of a trend, with MB winning Scotties (Einarson), and MB vs MB in WC game (Fleury vs Jones). See https://youtu.be/Gs8g79pFnQI

2016 was the first time ever in Scotties history that 2 teams from same province was in page playoff. That's MB (Einarson) and CA (Jones) See: https://youtu.be/VjOWZuE-6XM

These two of course meet again in the 2018 final.

I learned a bit about Manitoba provincials from Mike McEwen's interview with John Cullen https://stoneandstraw.libsyn.com/s02e05-mike-mcewen

I watched (YouTube replay) Mike McEwen's much anticipated Brier debut, having been #1 in the world for some time but just couldn't break through until 2016. That was a crazy first end, even Russ Howard claimed that it's probably the most entertaining first end of first draw for a Brier rookie team by far, or something like that ( https://youtu.be/BJCktus0Q0A?t=27m23s ). They had a gazillion rocks and BJ's run back had Gushue scared to death, as heard in the Sounds of the Game highlight (what happened to those, by the the way? That was such a neat idea! https://youtu.be/BJCktus0Q0A?t=1h37m06s).

I'm not familiar with ancient Manitoba curling lores, but these are all relatively recent.

I am not Manitoba Legend.

Last edited by curlingclips on 05-11-20 at 01:41AM

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05-11-20 04:13AM
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Manitoba Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
Easy there curling lips/ ML

How can you say you're new to curling yet spout Manitoba stats like you're Moose Turnbull?

Hmmm



Little off track son!

Remember, ML is the opinion guy on Curling Zone.

Curling Clips seeks out historical facts & figures about the sport. He's currently focused on Manitoba because its been the dominant curling province over the history of the sport. Also, returned to prominence last few seasons to dominate just about everything other than the mens game - where the mighty mites are still Koe, Gushue, Jacobs; occasionally the top guys let mopes like Epping & McEwen peek thru the knothole.

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05-11-20 10:54AM
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I wouldn't say I'm focused on Manitoba. I just picked it for the analogy: if someone has the crazy idea of insisting on Canada having multiple teams at the world level, shouldn't we at least first accept a Canadian province having multiple teams at the national level?

Based on everything I've heard recently (TSN and WCF on YouTube, podcasts), I chose MB to be that province, just for the sake of my counterargument.

Heck, Gauthier practically proved the case when he became MB2 and went on to win Canada and then the world.

Can you imagine what would've happened if they didn't have MB2 at the Canadian juniors this year?

Keep in mind that I'm also halfway invested in Jacques in particular because I watched 2019 Juniors final. What a devastating loss, against his own cousin (who's setting all sorts of record and a sure candidate for a hall of famer if he can keep going).

Cathy shared on TSN broadcast that Jacques took the loss especially hard since he blamed himself for a missed line call on an otherwise makeable winning last shot.

Sports Manitoba interviewed Gauthier and Zacharias after their wins, it's a nice listen.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/an...cast/e/68135434

I'm not Canadian. I can't even point to Manitoba on the map. I think it's in the west, because Glen Howard (and others) talk about the East vs West rivalry a lot of the olden days, and he made it sound like Ontario where he comes from is in the east.

Have a glimpse at my YouTube channel and you'll see that my curling universe is expansive, including mixed doubles and international scene. I'm generally not rooting for any particular province at the Scotties/Brier (which I think is where this provincialism is strongest).

Last edited by curlingclips on 05-11-20 at 10:58AM

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05-11-20 01:17PM
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Curling Clips should get a kick out of my analysis of Manitoba & Saskatchewan - 2 adjacent curling provinces, both about same population, same climate.

I worked, curled & lived in both provinces.

Seems like they'd be equivalent in terms of curling prowess. Not the case. Manitoba is vastly superior to Saskatchewan. Always wondered why?

Saskatchewan is made up of fare more towns, boroughs, villages - 1 or 2 lane curling clubs, glorified barns if you will.

2 fair-sized cities in Regina & Saskatoon, both having a few curling clubs each.

The real difference evolved around the time of the Richardson's dominance of Canadian mens curling. Ernie & his bunch were the most amazing hitters and sharp-shooters known to man. There was no free guard zone, the Richardsons hit everything in sight with amazing accuracy.

Opponents knew that something had to be done about those darn farmers. So the game evolved to a far more nuanced affair. Lots of chap shots, side guards, anything to upset the Richardsons and teams like them.

The Richardson's only played in one more Brier after their incredible run of 4 Briers in 5 years. They were no longer the big force in Canadian curling although remained a big name and minor force in Saskatchewan - playing and losing in 2 or 3 provincial finals before they retreated into the business world.

Getting back to point. Manitoba had a long legacy of winning teams before the Richardsons came along. The Watsons were the Richardsons of Manitoba. They were also a hitting team - their advantage was the Kenny slide - most guys in the 30s & 40s were throwing out of the hack; Ken & crew had nice even slides, often coming near the hog line. WOW!!!

But make no mistake - the Watsons were hitters with just a bit more brain-power than the Richardsons when it came to nuanced situations.

Saskatchewan rinks were mostly comprised of natural ice which forced, for the most part, Saskatchewan curlers to toss rocks with the ferocity of Kevin Koe attempting a triple.

Manitoba rinks, especially the dominant city of Winnipeg (up to 3/4 of its provinces population) had a wide variety of artificially iced rinks, an Amphitheatre holding 5,000+ until around 1955 and even some small towns & villages built ice plants.

Artificial ice gave Manitoba a true advantage over its prairie sister - guys could play a wide variety of weight, not just runners and heavy hits like they did in Saskatchewan.

Rick Folk was the lone exception to Manitoba dominance after the Richardson in terms of winning. Bob Pickering, Garney Campbell & John Keyes were mostly responsible for putting a stop to the Richardsons but even this great Sask'n rink usually shrivelled up and died when it came to the Brier.

Manitoba produced the long-slide (The Kenny) plus a bunch of nuances like the toe-sliders & corner guards. Far more advancement in curling from Manitoba than its neighbour province - right from the artificial ice, curling equipment, artificial brooms, strategy and far more.

Main reason why Manitoba is near the top of the Brier gold chart with 25 pieces while Sask'n has yet to crack double digits. Alberta eventually overtook Manitoba with a variety of super teams who each took down multiple briers each (Matt Baldwin, Ron Northcott, Hector Gervais, Mack Lukowich, Randy Ferbey, Kevin Martin, Kevin Koe, Pat, etc.) Prior to Baldwin's 3-gold run in the 50s Alberta had only produced a couple Brier golds - I do recall Billy Rose of Sedgewick cuz my dad used to tell me of his exploits.

Curling is looked at like a red-headed stepchild in most areas of BC, Quebec and much of Ontario. Manitoba, even with a myriad of curling clubs closing, still has a relatively high level of participation in the sport.

Manitoba still has a wonderful junior development program, its recent successes verifying the program's power to produce up 'n coming juniors.

The model of Manitoba is to be admired from Coast to Coast. Its current fade in mens curling can be attributed to teams grouping in various cities with flown-in curlers. Manitoba didn't do much of it for the most part in terms of team importation until J Stoughton recruited Mark Nichols to play lead, BJ Neufeld left McEwen to ride with the Koe gang and Matt Dunstone started his residency in Saskatchewan. A few outliers over the years, Ryan Fry became a have turn, will travel curler but even before him Grant Watson, after capturing 3 Briers with older brother Ken, curled a few years out of Northern Ontario and even medalled in the early 50s (53 or 54 I do believe)

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05-11-20 01:55PM
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The TSN crew talked about ice advantage at provincials. Cathy let out the "secret" that head ice tech for Curling Canada Greg Ewasko also makes the ice for Manitoba, which as Russ jokingly retorted, is kind of cheating ( https://youtu.be/cJMoH__MVBk ).

I've heard about this hitting vs finesse debate, usually summed up by the slogans "Drink Draw Win" vs "Hit Sleep Lose" ( https://twitter.com/curling/status/1086703119285788679 ).

Warren Hansen in Inside Curling attributed a slider story to, I believe Matt Baldwin if I remember correctly. Baldwin had already secured the win, and he slid all the way across the sheet to the surprise and cheers from the crowd. Looked so fun that this stunt exploded the interest to the younger players.

//edit: a bit of Googling confirms that yes, it was Matt Baldwin with the infamous slide that ignited the subsequent boom in the sport especially among the youths. I thought maybe this was an obscure story but apparently it was quite a widely known fact.

https://www.curling.ca/hof/people/baldwin-mathew-m/

quote:
At age 27, Baldwin was then the youngest skip to win a Brier, in an era when teams were generally led by men decades older. He is also remembered for pleasing a cheering Edmonton hometown crowd by sliding halfway down the sheet of ice when throwing his final rock of the event, a move that was legal under the curling rules of the time.

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/s...-canada-393026/
quote:
He not only created a curling boom as a participation sport, Baldwin was the No. 1 reason it became a spectator sport.

Last edited by curlingclips on 05-11-20 at 05:00PM

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05-11-20 02:45PM
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I am interested in the Manitoba Diaspora - not just mercenaries who jumped from their team to another, but those who moved for work (or maybe to curl) and left us cheering for them as home grown talent. There are lots in the women's game, Scott and hers. Darbyshire got a Oly medal. Even The Brette and Blair sisters out in BC are still knocking at the Women's provincial championships there. And among the men? Ryan? There's a biggy. So many in Alberta (we smuggly point out). Do they think Alberta is easier? Lots do rise to the top there. Most evacuees proudly rep their new homeland, while we still live with that yeah-but truth about where they were rooted and stay hushed about the strip of Manitoba that they took from us. I'd like to see that list developed.

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05-17-20 09:01PM
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Rewatching the 2017 Roar of the Rings womens final between Homan and Carey the game was a little closer than I remembered it.. it's a good thing in the 8th end on Homans last rock up by 1 they ddint listen to Miskews suggestion that they try to play the split to get 2... That would have been a very low percentage shot and they came to their senses and got the blank to take hammer into the 9th end.. And in the 9th Homan last rock was heavy and stopped in time to take 1 instead of giving up the steal...


Who would have guessed at that time that would be that teams zenith.. their highest point..and starting after that massive disapointment… Being the only womens team in Canadian Olympic curling history to not medal at the Olympics.. and then a year later at the Scotties having a 5-1 lead after 4 and letting it get away from them and then another Scotties loss in 2020... I like Lisa Weagle and I wouldn't put the blame on her for the big disapointments the last few years but they had to try and change the karma..do something to shake things up

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05-17-20 09:48PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rock Your World
Rewatching the 2017 Roar of the Rings womens final between Homan and Carey the game was a little closer than I remembered it.. it's a good thing in the 8th end on Homans last rock up by 1 they ddint listen to Miskews suggestion that they try to play the split to get 2... That would have been a very low percentage shot and they came to their senses and got the blank to take hammer into the 9th end.. And in the 9th Homan last rock was heavy and stopped in time to take 1 instead of giving up the steal...


Who would have guessed at that time that would be that teams zenith.. their highest point..and starting after that massive disapointment… Being the only womens team in Canadian Olympic curling history to not medal at the Olympics.. and then a year later at the Scotties having a 5-1 lead after 4 and letting it get away from them and then another Scotties loss in 2020... I like Lisa Weagle and I wouldn't put the blame on her for the big disapointments the last few years but they had to try and change the karma..do something to shake things up



Lee (as Rachel calls her) was definitely "the scapegoat" for the karma shakeup.
Just as Joanne Courtney had caught Rachel Homan's eye several years ago when she toiled as 3rd player for the bespacled Albertan Valerie Sweeting, Rachel's wandering eye caught the exploits of Sarah Wilkes a few years later after Wiles, with Carey at the helm bested Rachel at STOH.

Rachel's acquisition of Courtney gave her the power-curler she so sorely lacked over the years. While Lee was a great draw curler and made the Weagle a new shot in curling's vocabulary she was not a brutal brusher.

With Sarah Wilkes in tow, Team Homan now has 2 of the 3 most powerful women's curlers in their employ. . . . the 3 power curlers I speak of are Wilkes, Courtney & Manitoba's Shannon Birchard.

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Rachel Homan was well aware of Sarah Wilkes way before 2020 Scotties. She subbed for Courtney, who was away at 2017 mixed doubles worlds trying to secure a spot for Canada at the Olympics. She helped the team win a slam.

They talked about these kinds of scheduling conflicts here
https://youtu.be/tTcTMD3ML-I

The final of the 2017 Champions Cup where Wilkes played for Homan va Hasselborg is here
https://youtu.be/sDnQJ-z-Cn8

Fun game: guess whose name is on the back of Wilkes' jersey.

Last edited by curlingclips on 05-17-20 at 11:00PM

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