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12-03-21 02:46AM
curlingclips is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlingclips Find more posts by curlingclips Add curlingclips to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
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Jennifer Jones in extra ends without hammer

Apparently at one point Jennifer Jones had a six-win streak in extra ends without hammer. In any case, I would like to compile a list of Jennifer Jones' record in extra ends without hammer. Can someone help me out?

Here's what I have so far:

L Cunningham 2002 Scotties
W Nordby 2005 World
L Arsenault 2008 Scotties
W Middaugh 2008 Scotties (SF)
W Meguro 2008 World (SF)
L MacPhee 2009 Scotties
W MacPhee 2009 Scotties (TB)
L Norberg 2009 World (3v4)
L Schöpp 2010 World
W Scott 2012 Scoties
L Nedohin 2012 Scotties
W Middaugh 2013 Trials
L Pätz 2015 Stu Sells Oakville
L Scheidegger 2016 Autumn Gold
W Barbezat 2016 Canad Inns
L Feltscher 2016 Masters
L Sweeting 2016 Tour Challenge
L Pätz 2017 Champions Cup
W Moiseeva 2017 Arctic Cup
W Scheidegger 2017 Trials
W Holland 2019 Colonial Square
W Homan 2019 Tour Challenge (TB)
L Roth/Peterson 2019 Tour Challenge (QF)
L Einarson 2020 MB Scotties
W Birt 2020 Scotties
L Carey 2021 Autumn Gold (QF)
W Walker 2021 Trials
W Fleury 2021 Trials (F)

This is an incomplete list, but as far as I can find, she has a close to 50% chance of stealing extra ends.

Can you help me complete the list? Do you know of any other extra ends without hammer that Jennifer Jones has played in her career?

Last edited by curlingclips on 12-03-21 at 04:08AM

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12-03-21 09:07AM
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You don't steal an extra end by peeling guard, so we can include data from 4 rock FGZ era.

https://www.curlingzone.com/analyti...by=2016&ey=2021

In Women's, stealing extra end is 30%. In Men's, it's closer to 25%. In Mixed Doubles, it's 36%.

Jones is close to 50% in Women's, which is shocking. The 6 steals in a row is also unheard of, even Kevin Martin and Mike Harris were speechless when confronted with this factoid.

She very nearly extended that streak to 7, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv9z6b-2tRU

Last edited by curlingclips on 12-03-21 at 09:47AM

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12-03-21 09:39AM
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I'd like to keep the discussion based more on verifiable facts, not opinions. I'm specifically trying to look back on the history of Jennifer Jones, not to speculate on the future, or to assess the present situation involving other teams.

Thanks in advance.

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12-03-21 09:59AM
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I would speculate it all depends on the game and opponent. You can see how a super aggressive team like hers would be able to run circles around some more inexperienced teams at the Worlds. Jones' genius is she rarely seems to feel the pressure (the Trials 11th being a classic example of one team buckling and the other hitting 100% in the extra). Homan pulled this off a couple times at the most recent Scotties, too. But against someone like Patz it's just less likely to happen because a) that front end isn't going to miss many peels or double peels, and b) Patz isn't going to miss many last shots.

The Olympics is a pressure cooker unto itself so if Jones can maintain her cool she could definitely keep this kind of advantage. But the best way to win is just not be down without hammer in the extra so she should probably look into that more.

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12-03-21 10:44AM
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I should know not to ask you guys for facts, but if we're going to be talking gibberish, I might as well add mine:

I predict CAN will lose the gold medal game on a steal.

Just like Kevin Martin in 2002, and Cheryl Bernard in 2010.

It'll be devastating, I personally wouldn't enjoy it, but the Curling Gods are a cruel bunch. They giveth, and they taketh away.

Jones stole the Olympic spot from Fleury. Someone is going to steal the Olympic gold from her.

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12-03-21 10:48AM
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Sorry not a data collection expert so can't help there. But this is a fascinating data set and thank you for sharing it.

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12-03-21 10:49AM
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You've been courteous and thoughtful, no need to apologize, we're just having fun here.

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12-03-21 12:08PM
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
I predict CAN will lose the gold medal game on a steal. It'll be devastating, I personally wouldn't enjoy it, but the Curling Gods are a cruel bunch. They giveth, and they taketh away.

This is a hugely important aspect of curling and is very difficult to document. Curling is a sport with a twist. "They're not happy because they are winning, they are winning because they are happy." is an unspoken reality (despite deadpans like Koe and Homan) who seem to prove the adage wrong. It's not a sport for the machismo cowpuncher either. The Scots know this. Some Canadians know this. Other, new-to-the-game champions have learned this. You steal some you give some - so sayeth the Granite God. Forgive the miss and be happy - that's the secret. What teams are best at this?

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Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.

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12-03-21 12:47PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nelski
deadpans like Koe and Homan

You should go watch some no/low-pressure games that Homan has played. The skins exhibition game against Bottcher during lockdown is highly recommended. I think this was one of the very first few games Courtney and Wilkes played together as frontend. Don Bartlett sub. Bonus dad and Reid Carruthers on commentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrdu5-QPafY

Just a bunch of clowns on the ice (and I mean that as a compliment in the best possible way).

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12-03-21 12:57PM
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Homan seems to be quite popular among the other curlers off the ice. Whenever she comes up in a non-game context on podcasts or something it's positive.

This is like the fuss over Jones "celebrating too early" last weekend. Jones has been around for how long and has a great reputation off the ice. She's never had a whiff of bad sportsmanship throughout her career. But she acts "Wrong" for 5 seconds and some people want to go after her. So bizarre.

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12-03-21 01:13PM
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I am certain the Koe and Homan are perennial winners *because* they are having fun and do have the positive spirit. It is just less obvious because it doesn't show on their face. I'd say Jacobs is one that I see as having a bit of the *anger* gene that could be the tiny slippery edge in a critical moment. Even his comment after the loss to Gushue - he said, the team just didn't come through. Not particularly broad shoulders, illustrating resentment maybe. He doesn't have the full twist in his game, yet IMHO. I wonder what his StealEE ratio is.

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Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.

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12-03-21 01:21PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nelski
I am certain the Koe and Homan are perennial winners *because* they are having fun and do have the positive spirit. It is just less obvious because it doesn't show on their face. I'd say Jacobs is one that I see as having a bit of the *anger* gene that could be the tiny slippery edge in a critical moment. Even his comment after the loss to Gushue - he said, the team just didn't come through. Not particularly broad shoulders, illustrating resentment maybe. He doesn't have the full twist in his game, yet IMHO. I wonder what his StealEE ratio is.


Interesting, I read the Jacobs interview the opposite way and thought he was very magnanimous in his win. He didn't have a single angry vibe on the ice or in the interview. They are wildly passionate, yes, though if you compare it to their Brier or Trials wins they seem sleepy by comparison (maturity!). His comments on the trial final make sense to me. They were outcurled by 8%, with Gushue's team managing + at every position except second (Harnden > Gallant by 6%). That left Gushue with control from the first end to the 10th and Jacobs team never found a way in.

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12-03-21 01:36PM
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quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
Jones [...] never had a whiff of bad sportsmanship throughout her career

Jones did have an infamous burned rock incident in 2008 against some up and comer "Kerri Flett" (Who?).

Lots of newspaper articles written about it, but I haven't found any video footage, if there's even any to begin with.

http://bobweeksoncurling.blogspot.c...e-splainin.html

quote:
Lots of commotion at the Manitoba Scotties, where an alleged rock-burning incident has cast a shadow on Jennifer Jones and her team. The former world champ has come off looking like a bully against a younger opponent. She seems to have broken the unwritten code in curling and in the process has tarnished her reputation.


Flett goes by Einarson now, in case you didn't know.

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Curling Scores

W: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: W7 -- Fri, Mar 29 -- 10:00am CT
Viau 2nd
Pekowitz  Watch Live Curling!
Giroux 2nd
Johnson  Watch Live Curling!
Berg 2nd
Berg  Watch Live Curling!
Schapman 2nd
Scheel  Watch Live Curling!
M: USA Curling Junior National Championships
Eau Claire, WI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: M7 -- Thu, Mar 28 -- 8:00pm CT
Lannoye Final
Hebert (10) Watch Live Curling!
Fitzgerald Final
Cenzalli (10) Watch Live Curling!
Brenden Final
Church (9) Watch Live Curling!
Guentzel Final
Rose (6) Watch Live Curling!
M: Canadian Mixed Doubles Curling Championship
Fredericton, NB
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF -- Fri, Mar 22 -- 1:00pm AT
Lott/Lott Final
Walk/Muyr (8) Watch Live Curling!
M: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 3:00am ET
Caccivio Final
Brauchli 12  (EE)
Dryburgh Final
Ringgenberg (9)
W: Swiss Junior Championships
Thun, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: CF2 -- Sun, Mar 24 -- 9:00am CET
Schwaller Final
Oberson (9)
Blackham Final
von Arx (9)
W: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 11:00am MT
Stroeder Final
Delorey (7)
M: NWTCA Curling Club Championships
Fort Smith, NT
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Sat, Mar 23 -- 1:00pm ET
Delorey Final
Lockhart (EE)
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