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| 04-12-23 06:28PM |
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MostlyLurking
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 10 |
Like others I also can't believe I'm biting (again....)
Adding handicaps to the leading team to make it harder for them to win the game is definitely a farce in my opinion.
When I am losing a curling game, the last thing that I want is to handicap my opponent to give me a better chance to win. *That* would be an insult. I don’t need a mercy rule to win, I (and my team) need to play better.
As for the Spirit of Curling, running the opposition out of stones has been a very common way to win games that go to the final end for pretty much the entire history of curling. It should not be viewed as “humbling your opponent” to beat them fair and square on the ice with both teams playing the same rules.
More importantly can visitors play in the next keg spiel? It sounds awesome! LOL.
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| 04-12-23 06:29PM |
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myhouse911
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 154 |
If we were forced to get rid of ticking, because teams got too good at it, then lord help us when they realize teams are too good at take outs, because some insane person like you would make that illegal. Then what, teams get too good at draws, and taps, and then that becomes illegal, too? We are then left with no curling at all.
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| 04-12-23 06:36PM |
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myhouse911
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 154 |
Lols at a 6 end skins style game being too complicated.
Two rounds, 3 ends per round. You could be getting blown out in round 1, and squeak by a win in round 2, and all of a sudden you're in an extra end draw to the button challenge for the match victory. I'm not sure their is much complication there, plus it should make you happy as there would be less chance of conceding games early - since it would be skins style play, you win the end, and you get the point.. whether you score 1 or 8, an end won is an end won..
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| 04-12-23 06:39PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by myhouse911
Lols at a 6 end skins style game being too complicated.
It is complicated when you consider how much the rulebook needs to be rewritten to implement it.
Right now, if we want to implement my proposal of making it illegal to run your opposition out of stones, you only need to change a few sentences from the WCF rulebook.
A 6-end skins would require deleting entire sections and writing new ones into WCF rulebook.
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| 04-12-23 06:59PM |
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myhouse911
Hitting Paint
Registered: Mar 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 154 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
I acknowledge that up by 3 without hammer in 10th is probably the scenario that is affected the most. I can't recall specific instance where a team that is up by 3 without hammer in 10th won by eliminating 6 stones, but it's probably been done before.
The more we go up, the more this proposal is justified, i.e. the Einarson up by 6 scenario vs Jones.
Literally 6 days ago, when Scotland played Canada in the Round Robin. They removed 6 rocks in the tenth end without hammer, whilst being up 6-3. I guess you must have avoided watching that on TSN.
You are so stupid.
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| 04-12-23 07:25PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by myhouse911
Literally 6 days ago, when Scotland played Canada in the Round Robin. They removed 6 rocks in the tenth end without hammer, whilst being up 6-3. I guess you must have avoided watching that on TSN.
You are so stupid.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention!
This is actually a great example to discuss.
Here's (PDF) shot-by-shot official record of the game.
On Mouat's last, Gushue down 3 with hammer had a corner guard and 2 rocks in the house hidden behind it. Mouat made a double of those 2 rocks in the house, running Gushue out of stones.
I want to make that double takeout illegal.
So Mouat on his last shot will only be allowed to make a single takeout instead of a double. This would leave Gushue with a corner guard, a stone in the house, and the hammer.
Now, in terms of geometry and laws of physics, I don't think Gushue can actually score 3 anyway, but strictly speaking Mouat didn't actually run Gushue out of stones in terms of pure numbers, thus a single takeout is perfectly legal.
So with this rule, if Mouat wants to play the 10th defensively, he had to make a single takeout with his last instead of a double. Gushue would set up a trap so that the single became very difficult. If Mouat made the double, then it's an illegal takeout, and stones are reset and Gushue can draw for 3.
If Gushue made it so good on his first that the single takeout became too risky or impossible for Mouat, Mouat would have to make a freeze instead.
Had Mouat left Gushue with 2 corner guards instead of just 1, then the double takeout would've been legal, even though it's still impossible to score 3 with 2 corner guards and a hammer. Of course 2 corner guards is also more dangerous for Mouat in other ways.
Alternatively, Mouat could've played the 10th end entirely differently, defending the 3-point lead using offense instead of takeouts, junking it up with guards leaving a lot of stones in play. Bottcher defended 2-point lead using only 3 takeouts against Koe in 2021 Brier final, so surely Mouat can defend a 3-point lead using only 5 takeouts against Gushue.
I would argue that this makes the 10th end a lot more interesting. Koe conceding the Brier title to Bottcher in 2021 even though he was only down 2 with 4 stones in play and a hammer incoming is a lot more cerebral than Gushue conceding to Mouat because he was ran out of stones. Gushue's concession can be explained by children counting on their fingers. Koe's concession can only be explained with deeper analysis, requiring maybe a screen shot or a diagram. It's so cerebral that Team Bottcher had to have a timeout to confirm their last shot, and Team Koe also had a conference before finally conceding. It's not an instant automatic handshakes ala Gushue vs Mouat.
Last edited by curlingclips on 04-12-23 at 08:44PM
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| 04-12-23 07:37PM |
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Prawnpuller
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2013
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 97 |
As for the Spirit of Curling, running the opposition out of stones has been a very common way to win games that go to the final end for pretty much the entire history of curling. It should not be viewed as “humbling your opponent” to beat them fair and square on the ice with both teams playing the same rules.
More importantly can visitors play in the next keg spiel? It sounds awesome! LOL
Re humbling your opponent..my wife once beat me in a cash spiel..we still shook hands and I even gave her a peck on the cheek😂..
And we are taking entries for our next “keg spiel”, however new rules for them come into play.
One member (usually the skinniest one) of new teams are set up in the lounge standing on a milk carton against the wall.The other 3 members of this team then get a roll of duck tape and must tape there fellow teammate to the wall. After this is accomplished we then kick out the milk cartons.The winners are the ones still stuck to the wall and they then are forced to have a free round at the bar😬
Again on a serious note can’t think of any other sport where you beat the crap out of your opponent and then shake hands and usually partake in drinks up in the lounge…now this is the true spirit of the game…but you know who ( because he does not curl ) wouldn’t know that.
Two things can happen..one is bad.
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| 04-12-23 08:26PM |
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875 |
Hey Clips. Why do you come on here and post crap, then argue with everyone that has a different opinion or different point of you? Don't make one more post until you've thrown a stone. Everything you post is ridiculous with a capital R. Don't comment on Canadian curling as you're not Canadian. Yes as Canadians we like the jabs we get from Scotland or Sweden and Hop Suisse. But for some guy/girl/ or however as you identify yourself, to chirp and argue ad nauseum with every single poster here, you need to step back and evaluate your life and it's meaning.
Signed Dr of Curling.
Call 1800imanass
Gerry? Gerry?.......Gerry?
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| 04-12-23 10:16PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2
argue with everyone that has a different opinion or different point of you?
I just want to point out that there's nothing wrong with arguing, exchanging ideas, brainstorming, etc. As long as people are being respectful and not personally attacking each other, there's nothing wrong with engaging and having discussions with people who have different opinions and point of view. In fact, I would go as far as saying that people should probably do that more often.
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| 04-14-23 01:27AM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by Prawnpuller
shake hands and usually partake in drinks up in the lounge…now this is the true spirit of the game…
Spirit of Curling does apply on and off the ice. Drinking together in the lounge is an off-ice application.
However, I would say that on-ice application of Spirit of Curling is always more important than off-ice.
I agree that beating your opposition fair and square is not a violation of Spirit of Curling. What I'm saying is that maybe we can introduce this new rule using Spirit of Curling. We're not going to judge what happened in the past using this new rule, because this new rule wasn't a rule back then.
So, yes, running your opposition out of stones has been done for centuries, but maybe we can all say that starting today, we will not be doing that any more.
Starting from today, running your opposition out of stones is illegal. So each team gets 38 minutes of thinking time, 10 ends, 80 stones, 1 timeout, and all of that is guaranteed by the Spirit of Curling, and the opposition can not take any of that away from them.
No other sports does this, but that's why curling is special, and it's something that is worthy of celebration.
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| 04-14-23 08:30PM |
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Prawnpuller
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2013
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 97 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
Spirit of Curling does apply on and off the ice. Drinking together in the lounge is an off-ice application.
However, I would say that on-ice application of Spirit of Curling is always more important than off-ice.
I agree that beating your opposition fair and square is not a violation of Spirit of Curling. What I'm saying is that maybe we can introduce this new rule using Spirit of Curling. We're not going to judge what happened in the past using this new rule, because this new rule wasn't a rule back then.
So, yes, running your opposition out of stones has been done for centuries, but maybe we can all say that starting today, we will not be doing that any more.
Starting from today, running your opposition out of stones is illegal. So each team gets 38 minutes of thinking time, 10 ends, 80 stones, 1 timeout, and all of that is guaranteed by the Spirit of Curling, and the opposition can not take any of that away from them.
No other sports does this, but that's why curling is special, and it's something that is worthy of celebration.
You just insist on arguing about nothing…
Let’s get one thing straight..running your opposition out of stones has been and still is the strategy teams use to win games. There is no discussion or nothing forthright coming down the pipe to make this illegal as you have told us at least 100 times..this is just another preposterous idea you created and trying to shove it down our throats..give it a rest..NOBODY cares and this WILL NOT happen in your lifetime..
The on ice spirit of curling is beating or losing (lots of times) your pals on the ice ..looking him in the eyes and shaking his hand while telling him “good game”. But here again you would not understand that cause you do not curl. You are like a dog with a bone (you just won’t leave things alone until you get the last word in) To me and likely lots of others also you are very annoying,obnoxious and because you have never ever even thrown a curling stone in your life your credibility is zero.
Why not give us all a break and take up tiddlywinks.
Two things can happen..one is curlingclips posting anything curling
Last edited by Prawnpuller on 04-14-23 at 09:20PM
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| 04-14-23 08:53PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by Prawnpuller
Why not give us all a break
Okay, I will respect your request and will stop pushing this proposal.
But now it's your turn. It's everyone's turn to propose a rule change that gives a reason for Jennifer Jones to play the mandatory 10th end of the 2023 Scotties final down 6 with hammer against Kerri Einarson.
Because obviously the current rule set doesn't work.
I'm listening/reading. I genuinely hope someone comes up with a better proposal than mine, something that doesn't require major rewriting of the current WCF/Curling Canada rule book like a skins format does.
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| 04-14-23 10:02PM |
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Prawnpuller
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2013
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 97 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
Okay, I will respect your request and will stop pushing this proposal.
But now it's your turn. It's everyone's turn to propose a rule change that gives a reason for Jennifer Jones to play the mandatory 10th end of the 2023 Scotties final down 6 with hammer against Kerri Einarson.
Because obviously the current rule set doesn't work.
I'm listening/reading. I genuinely hope someone comes up with a better proposal than mine, something that doesn't require major rewriting of the current WCF/Curling Canada rule book like a skins format does.
This is not MY request.it is factual..In Curling running teams out of rocks will ALWAYS be part of the game and that will never change.Guaranteed.Take it to the bank.END.
Your other point in proposing a rule change..just maybe we DO NOT need any more rule changes. These are brought in by smarter people than you and I.Unfortunately our game is dictated by TV rights , sponsors and such and often changes are made to accommodate them (8 end games) are an example.Before we make any rules changes they must be well thought out and only to make the game better.
I personally don’t have any beefs with the current rules but would encourage the powers to be to help out more at the grass roots level of curling.Many clubs in Canada are struggling to keep operating…another is TV Coverage..this needs a major overhaul..a Lot of people ( like you ) are TV curlers .More TV coverage would hopefully get people away from there keyboards and encourage them to go down to the club and join a league.
Over and out EH
Two things can happen..one is bad
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| 04-14-23 10:23PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by Prawnpuller
maybe we DO NOT need any more rule changes
Well unfortunately changes are going to come. Most analysts are saying the no-tick rule will become permanent. Some even suggest that it should expand to also protect corner guards as well.
I admit that my proposals are on the crazy side, but curling is going to change even if I never post anything on this forum again.
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| 04-14-23 11:48PM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by CurlingWatcher1
Why does curling need to change?
This is nothing new. You can probably use the same answer from back in the '90s when curling adopted FGZ despite having gone for centuries without it.
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| 04-14-23 11:54PM |
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Prawnpuller
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2013
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 97 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
Well unfortunately changes are going to come. Most analysts are saying the no-tick rule will become permanent. Some even suggest that it should expand to also protect corner guards as well.
I admit that my proposals are on the crazy side, but curling is going to change even if I never post anything on this forum again.
Your banter above is here say…again the no tick rule and perhaps corner guards theory are for TV audiences only. I would submit that at the club level this is a non issue.
But now it's your turn. It's everyone's turn to propose a rule change that gives a reason for Jennifer Jones to play the mandatory 10th end of the 2023 Scotties final down 6 with hammer against Kerri Einarson.
I do not dwell on the above Jones game above like you.
Common sense tells me that she finished the 10th end because the TV slotted time had to be filled and likely they couldn’t switch to another sheet or something similar.Likely because a lot of $$$ is involved teams getting trounced will play until they are mathematically eliminated from winning the game.
In club play it might be as simple as just playing another end to get the rocks to the “home”end.
I apologize to the original thread poster as we are off the subject but clips gets my dander up and needs guidance..OFTEN. Lol
Two things can happen…one is bad
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| 04-15-23 12:09AM |
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curlingclips
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 1523 |
quote:
Originally posted by Prawnpuller
Common sense tells me that she finished the 10th end because the TV slotted time had to be filled and likely they couldn’t switch to another sheet or something similar.
I think you got the basic fact wrong. Jones did not finish the 10th end. There was no 10th end played at 2023 Scotties final. Contrary to the 10-end minimum rule published by Curling Canada, Jones conceded after 9th.
I don't blame Jones for conceding early, because the rules are such as they are, but if curlers do this again and again in the future and concede without playing the mandatory 10-end minimum, curling is going to have a big problem.
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| 04-15-23 12:38AM |
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Prawnpuller
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2013
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 97 |
For once you are right…I did not research or remember the particulars of the Jones game.so let’s start over.
She was getting trounced and obviously conceded the game without finishing the 10th…no biggy ..Tv can switch to another game…If she is breaking the conditions of tournament perhaps the officials should of stepped in and forced her to play it out…..we then could of witnessed another “spin fest”with the rocks much like one of Edins game..there you have it…follows the rules to the tee and entertains the audience.Easy Peasy
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| 08-28-23 10:24AM |
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jenniferbrowns
Knee-Slider
Registered: Aug 2023
Location:
Posts: 3 |
advice
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| 03-19-24 07:51AM |
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Filip
Knee-Slider
Registered: Jan 2024
Location:
Posts: 5 |
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