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03-09-20 10:04PM
Manitoba Legend is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Manitoba Legend Click here to Send Manitoba Legend a Private Message Find more posts by Manitoba Legend Add Manitoba Legend to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Manitoba Legend
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Has Rachel Homan lived up to expectations?

Serious question. My view is unusual - I'm not sure.

31 yrs old - been going after the Scotties for 12 years.

Didn't always get in - toppled unexpectedly a couple times by lesser teams at Ontario playdowns, once by one of my favorites, Jenn Hanna.

So all told

12 years of competition

3 Scotties gold, 2 silver, 1 bronze
1 World gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze
1 Olympic (finished up the track)

And I seriously doubt she'd be sitting with 3 STOH gold, had she not pillaged Joanne Courtney from Val Sweeting in 2014.

Jennifer Jones was criticized for only winning 1 world golds - Jen was usually in the playoff mix but found numerous ways to bow out including kidney stones - but she finally got her 2nd world gold to go along with 6 Scotties gold, 3 STOH silver, 3 STOH bronze.

Jones has some nice non-gold hardware from her various world appearances plus

one can never forget her brave & thrilling unbeaten run at the 2012 Olympics, nothing short of amazing!

The main block in comparing Jones to Homan is time. Jones didn't win her first STOH gold until she was 30 - Homan won't be 31 until April.

Jones has that on-ice ebullience mixed with her oft-scatterbrained line and sweep calls. Homan has always been seen as cold, austere & disassociated. Although she's certainly far warmer last 2 or 3 years. Team is very mechanical, super well-trained, strategically tough and the greatest individual shooter in women's curling tossing last bricks, one of the greats (Miskew) at 3rd, the most powerful brush in women's game at 2nd (Courtney) and the Tick-lady at lead (Weagle).

Must say even if I wasn't a massive JJ fan, Jones games in the Scotties were usually far more entertaining than anything Homan put up. More rocks in play, more hi-risk shots, etc.

I'm pretty much resigned to putting JJ down as a field team now, a 60-75% shooter, with too many games in the 60s and awful, just awful rock positioning. She might not even be amongst the top 2 team in Manitoba anymore (Einarson, Fleury)

But the question remains. Has Rachel Homan fulfilled her promise at age 30?

If she curls another 12-15 years (like Jones) I can definitely see her grab at least 2, perhaps up to 4 Scotties championships. And like Jones, that would be totally fulfilling - especially if she could rack up a couple more world gold, and that missing Olympic title.

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03-09-20 10:46PM
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Man o man you can spew. Any other curler in Canada would do the dance of joy....Google balki bartokomous....with that record.

One of the best teams ever and you're chirping from the sidelines. C'mon. Yes, they're not from Manitoba but you Cathy Gautier need to realize there's other teams in Canada.

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03-10-20 04:25PM
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Just to clarify MLs comments, Rachel has attempted to qualify for the Scottie’s 9 times in her 10 years in ladies play as you cannot enter the Scottie’s if you qualify for the Olympics. The team has made it to Scotties 7 times making top 4 every time, with 3 wins and 2 seconds. They have played in 6 Canada Cups with 2 wins and 2 seconds. They have played in 37 Slams with 10 wins and 17 second place finishes. Pretty good decade.

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03-10-20 04:32PM
Manitoba Legend is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Manitoba Legend Click here to Send Manitoba Legend a Private Message Find more posts by Manitoba Legend Add Manitoba Legend to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by ott-am
Just to clarify MLs comments, Rachel has attempted to qualify for the Scottie’s 9 times in her 10 years in ladies play as you cannot enter the Scottie’s if you qualify for the Olympics. The team has made it to Scotties 7 times making top 4 every time, with 3 wins and 2 seconds. They have played in 6 Canada Cups with 2 wins and 2 seconds. They have played in 37 Slams with 10 wins and 17 second place finishes. Pretty good decade.


Thanks for clarifying the stats on Team Homan, Art.
Much appreciated . . .

Based on the sheer power and shot-pelting capabilities of that team - I would have thought they would have been one of those teams that would have captured 3 or 4 national championships in a row.

Still time!

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03-10-20 05:13PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend Based on the sheer power and shot-pelting capabilities of that team - I would have thought they would have been one of those teams that would have captured 3 or 4 national championships in a row.]

The other teams are getting stronger around them. Young teams. U18s and U20s with their sites on the prize and long term plans. Hard to duplicate Jones' record. One 4 year cycle at a time. 8-year plans.

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03-10-20 05:35PM
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she also has a whole different family life now, that is probably more important to her.

Taken away from some of her practice time, etc.

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03-10-20 06:02PM
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In the modern era there have been a number of super-teams in Canadian women's curling.

For definition purposes I'd put a super team as those that have won 3 STOHs or more.

Jennifer Jones (6)
Colleen Jones (6)
Sandra Schmirler (3)
Rachel Homan (3)
Connie Laliberte (3)

Only ones on this list capable of growing their totals are Rachel & Jennifer - - - - and by all accounts Jennifer appears to have completed her cycle, although still very capable of the odd upset and cash spiel win.

FWIW, I think Jennifer Jones should have 7 or 8 STOHs - she absolutely donated a couple - one to Amber Holland and another to Heather Nedohin. Mind you she absolutely stole one from Jenn Hanna, too!

Homan's wins have all been hard-earned. She absolutely whomped Jennifer Jones & eked out a hard earned Scotties from an obviously over-the-hill Michelle Ridgeway (repping Manitoba) plus pulling away from a game, but out-manned Val Sweeting.

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Last edited by Manitoba Legend on 03-10-20 at 06:09PM

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03-10-20 07:30PM
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'Hard to duplicate Jones' record." Neiski.

For sure, and needless to say, it will be even more difficult to match or exceed Colleen Jones' four ( 4 ) successive Scotties' championships.

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03-10-20 07:54PM
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Wait - you’re not allowed to enter a provincial playdown if you win the roar of the rings?

I know she bowed out as team Canada at the Scotties a few years back... but that was mandatory?

I think I hate that. I know the Olympic gold is the holy grail but the Scotties/Brier have to be the most prestigious other title in curling... even with it restricted to Canada only. There’s more history, more... well more everything. I mean you dodge hasselborg and edin and tiranzoni and shuster and whoever but the overall field is stronger I think.

Is it because the field is so strong that it looks bad if your Olympic qualifiers go 6-5 or 7-4 or something?

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03-10-20 07:57PM
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I mean I know Shuster passed on the US Championships after the gold medal, but the US championship down here in the states ain’t the Brier

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03-10-20 10:07PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ott-am
Just to clarify MLs comments, Rachel has attempted to qualify for the Scottie’s 9 times in her 10 years in ladies play as you cannot enter the Scottie’s if you qualify for the Olympics. The team has made it to Scotties 7 times making top 4 every time, with 3 wins and 2 seconds. They have played in 6 Canada Cups with 2 wins and 2 seconds. They have played in 37 Slams with 10 wins and 17 second place finishes. Pretty good decade.
sorry, I meant 7 second place finishes.

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03-10-20 10:57PM
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Much more difficult to maintain excellence now than it was in the past. Talent pool is so much bigger. Pick any sport, and parity rules. Tiger Woods may be the last truly dominant athlete and that was 10 to 15 years ago.

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03-11-20 12:17AM
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I would say she most certainly has, having won a bunch of important titles before she hit 30. A huge accomplishment in such a curling-deep nation.

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03-11-20 10:54AM
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Manitoba Legend
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I would liken Rachel's ascendance to Ernie Richardson in the late 50s and 60s.

Richardson. like Homan was a shot-pelting machine . . . overwhelming opponents with running stones that knocked opponents out with regularity.

Once opponents started adjusting and picking up on the Richardsons amazing hitting skills and powerful sweeping, things changed. Bob Pickering, Jack Keyes & Grnet Campbell became a force in Saskn curling and were able to confront the Richardsons. Also. teams like Lyall Dagg, Terry Braunstein +Ron Northcott rose to prominence - some of these squads featured adequate hitting but also featured uniquely nuanced draw + tap games.

The Richardsons kind of faded away after 1967-69; unable to capture Sask'n, unable to play the draw game.

Rachel. to her (their) credit has morphed into a full service team - from incredible shot-pelters to really good draw + tap players. Strategically solid. very clinical.

She didn't scorch the earth during her early years like the Richardsons but came darn close - Jennifer Jones for one, was terrified of Homan. Remains so.

Still the best trained and prepared female team in Canada . Highest shooting averages. Too much power for most. Only a handful of teams can take her on.

Right now only Einarson, Scheidegger, etc. are close.

Jones is obviously at the end of her rope.

The Richardsons never adjusted. They didn't have to.

Homan has adjusted. She had to She did and she's still the most dangerous team on Canadian soul.

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Last edited by Manitoba Legend on 03-11-20 at 09:41PM

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03-11-20 07:51PM
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While he defines super teams as those who have won three or more Canadian championships ( 03-10-20 ), it would also appear that ML's expectations for Homan & Co. included winning three or four national championships in succession - Prior to 2020. ( 03 -10 - 20) .

An irrational, unrealistic expectation , at best.

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03-19-20 09:39PM
Manitoba Legend is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Manitoba Legend Click here to Send Manitoba Legend a Private Message Find more posts by Manitoba Legend Add Manitoba Legend to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Manitoba Legend
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I think both Jones & Homan have squandered at least 2 (each) opportunities to have more Scotties championships.

Jones - 1 vs. Amber Holland where Jones thought she had the final stone in extra made only to misjudge her own joy and 2 vs. Heather Nedohin where JJ & Nedohin engaged in a Klutz-fest where neither appeared to want the duke. JJ could easily have 8 STOH's - - - - - but then again she absolutely ripped Jen Hanna off for 1 STOH & Kathy O'Rourke for another!

Homan - cranked out a ghastly choke vs. Chels Carey last year and this year she fell into a deep, deep rut vs. K Einarson - albeit she fought valiantly & courageously for last few ends (making shots as if they were being carried down the ice and placed in perfect positions). Einarson was fortunate (and really good) to survive the Homan onslaught.

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