Registered: Mar 2011
Location: Montréal
Posts: 81

There won't be relegation in 2018. All 14 member associations will have direct entry. Add Team Canada with most probably a Team Tour and we'll have 16 teams at the Brier and the Scotties. Team Tour being the best team on Tour that didn't qualify via the provincials.
Do you split the teams in 2 equal pools of 8? As a fan I hope not.
I enjoyed seeing all the top teams playing each other at tbe Ottawa Brier. If you split the top teams in 2 pools chances are that some great games just won't happen and a lot of blowouts may occur.
What about having an A pool made up of the stronger teams and the B pool made up of the weaker teams. Let's say 10 teams in pool A and 6 teams in pool B. Pool A plays a 9 game round robin and pool B a double round robin of 10 games (2×5).
Pool A guarantees great games every draw for fans and TV. Teams in pool A have tough competition to prepare them for the playoffs. Pool B teams have 10 games that they can be competitive in.
4 teams qualify out of the A pool and 1 team qualifies out of the B pool. A1 plays A2 with the winner going to the final. B1 plays A4. The winner then plays A3. The winner of that game plays the loser of A1 vs A2 to determine the other finalist.
So top teams still qualify 4 for the playoffs like we had in Ottawa. Weaker teams also have a shot BUT they have to beat A4, A3, A2 and A1 in a row to win the Brier.
What do you think?

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: vernon bc
Posts: 2340

I think you make great hacks. Stick with that.

But I think we'd all like to know why you have suddenly come out of the woodwork, decades later, with a whole bunch of never before expressed opinions about the game. Which seem to jibe with the latest WCT press releases.

Seems more than a little contrived. I mean,seriously, I've been on here since 2002 with almost 2000 posts. Your hacks have been in place since what? 1992 or earlier? And only now you discover social media?

It's tough enough trying to decipher who is real here and who is faking to push their agenda. Hopefully you aren't another fake one.

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Last edited by jamcan on 03-30-16 at 05:59AM

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Registered: Mar 2011
Location: Montréal
Posts: 81

quote:

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Originally posted by jamcan
I think you make great hacks. Stick with that.

But I think we'd all like to know why you have suddenly come out of the woodwork, decades later, with a whole bunch of never before expressed opinions about the game. Which seem to jibe with the latest WCT press releases.

Seems more than a little contrived. I mean,seriously, I've been on here since 2002 with almost 2000 posts. Your hacks have been in place since what? 1992 or earlier? And only now you discover social media?

It's tough enough trying to decipher who is real here and who is faking to push their agenda. Hopefully you aren't another fake one.

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 371

Hey Marco. I thought I saw you from a distance at the Brier, but sorry we did not have a chance to chat.

I am not sure why jamcan does not think you can express your opinion because you have not had 2000 posts in the last 15 years?

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Art M

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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 278

Hey Marco, glad you are posting ideas. I think pool play for Brier or Scotties is dumb. You can see my rant in this older thread...where some ideas are kicked around.

http://www.curlingzone.com/showthre...25&pagenumber=1


I think 10 Provs, Northern Ont, Team Canada, + One Territory is the way to go. Yes it adds another game to the round robin, so you have to find room for 12 more games. There is room on the first Saturday for 6 of those games (add third draw). 4 more games come in the first Monday which only has two draws. Leave room for up to three tie-breakers by squeezing in a fourth draw one day to make up the remaining 2 games. Not great, but way better than two pools.

Or get rid of Northern Ont and go with current schedule, the Ontario women ran like this for decades until recently.

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990

Or get rid of Team Canada and run it the way it ran before this fiasco.

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I want to post on this thread but need to check with JAMCAN to make sure 7 years and 356 posts qualify to have an opinion.

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Posts: 116

quote:

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Originally posted by Three
Hey Marco, glad you are posting ideas. I think pool play for Brier or Scotties is dumb. You can see my rant in this older thread...where some ideas are kicked around.

http://www.curlingzone.com/showthre...25&pagenumber=1


I think 10 Provs, Northern Ont, Team Canada, + One Territory is the way to go. Yes it adds another game to the round robin, so you have to find room for 12 more games. There is room on the first Saturday for 6 of those games (add third draw). 4 more games come in the first Monday which only has two draws. Leave room for up to three tie-breakers by squeezing in a fourth draw one day to make up the remaining 2 games. Not great, but way better than two pools.

Or get rid of Northern Ont and go with current schedule, the Ontario women ran like this for decades until recently.

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Last edited by gameon on 03-30-16 at 01:19PM

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Registered: Mar 2011
Location: Montréal
Posts: 81

quote:

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Originally posted by Three
Hey Marco, glad you are posting ideas. I think pool play for Brier or Scotties is dumb. You can see my rant in this older thread...where some ideas are kicked around.

http://www.curlingzone.com/showthre...25&pagenumber=1


I think 10 Provs, Northern Ont, Team Canada, + One Territory is the way to go. Yes it adds another game to the round robin, so you have to find room for 12 more games. There is room on the first Saturday for 6 of those games (add third draw). 4 more games come in the first Monday which only has two draws. Leave room for up to three tie-breakers by squeezing in a fourth draw one day to make up the remaining 2 games. Not great, but way better than two pools.

Or get rid of Northern Ont and go with current schedule, the Ontario women ran like this for decades until recently.

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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 278

quote:

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Originally posted by biterbar
I want to post on this thread but need to check with JAMCAN to make sure 7 years and 356 posts qualify to have an opinion.

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Registered: Sep 2014
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 100

quote:

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Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
Or get rid of Team Canada and run it the way it ran before this fiasco.

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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 278

quote:

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Originally posted by gameon


I’ve been in the curling game for what seems like a century and seen a lot of changes over the years. When they changed the brier format and implemented the relegation round, I was totally upset and didn’t like the change at all. That being said, luckily they have decided to get rid of this one and move on.

Well fortunately my team actually played in a Nat for the Masters under the new format of having two pools… again I was totally peeved because it wasn’t a full roundrobin, but I have to admit after playing in the championship and actually experiencing what it is like with two pools… (hey, I don’t admit being wrong easily so I choose my words carefully) well I have to admit the system is good… K, it is maybe better than the old roundrobin, so hope that makes some happy.

This is what happened… we played a full roundrobin in our pool and let’s say it was the new format with either 6 or 7 teams per pool ( as either works great)… the top four teams then move into the championship round consisting of 8 teams no matter how many start the championships, and the bottom two or three depending on the number of teams, then move into an also-ran pool, as I would call it. So the only two or three teams we didn’t play were the bottom teams from the other pool. Then we played the top four teams from the other pool to end the roundrobin portion of the championships, but not the other 3 teams from our original pool because we had already played them.

After the last four games, the highest ranked teams… 3 or 4 depending on the actual playoff to decide the winner, then play for the trophy. If you look at it as the brier, the top teams play every team except the lowest teams from the other pool, which is great because those games are likely not worth watching anyway.

In the end, all of the good teams will play all teams except the lowest 2 or 3 from the other pool. You can think of this as the relegation section of the championships, but also consider you’re now enabling the lower teams to play at least 4 good teams from across Canada in the first roundrobin portion… so they gain a lot more experience than in the present relegation round.

Hope this makes sense, as it didn’t before I attended the Nats with the newer format, but after the fact, I now think this new championship with pools is even better than the older, full roundrobin. Hey, this one allows you to include more teams without adding to the length of the championship, which is also great.

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Last edited by Three on 03-30-16 at 03:13PM

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Registered: Feb 2005
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Posts: 1844

quote:

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Originally posted by jamcan
I think you make great hacks. Stick with that.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Southern Manitoba
Posts: 154

quote:

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Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
Or get rid of Team Canada and run it the way it ran before this fiasco.

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Registered: Feb 2014
Location:
Posts: 538

Last year my wife and I drove from Toronto to the west coast-believe me, Northern Ontario is a separate district.

First of all, a couple of questions for the group:

1. Do we really need Team Canada? Remember it was originally established because WOMEN weren’t getting enough promotion. I would suggest that, with the advent of the pro tour more and more female curlers are becoming familiar with curling fans (that doesn’t sound quite right...)
2. What about those darned territories? Well Mr. Koe (of the North) has bought time for NWT. I’ll discuss Nunavut at the end.

Now let’s run some numbers-if we were to drop Team Canada while including all 10 provinces, Northern Ontario and 3 territories, we have 14 teams; a round-robin schedule would entail 91 games (unlike the other national competitions who use pools-only 42 games total). How can we do this, you ask?

1. If we were to maintain the current draw format, the round-robin would take 7 ½ days...unless the local hockey/basketball/lacrosse/pro wrestling franchise might take issue-not to mention fans who would have to book extra vacation time.
2. Can the draw be expanded to 4 a day? Consider 9:00 AM, 1:00 PM, 5:00 PM and 9:00 PM. The icemakers wouldn’t be happy, and the TSN crew would have to add a couple of faces (they appear to be working new faces in already), but the entire draw could be handled in just over 5 days, leaving Monday morning open for the ice to “breathe” and “tiebreak” time on Friday afternoon. The number of ends could be reduced to 8, like the pros. Remember, curling used to be 18 ends.
3. Finally (and the icemakers will be getting in line) what if we returned to 5 sheets of ice? You still wouldn’t have enough time to complete the schedule with 3 draws a day, but with 4 draws and 5 sheets, you would have enough available sheets to play a full round-robin without dropping Team Canada.

Now, what about Nunavut (and to a lesser extent Yukon) you ask? I’ve seen the scores from the Seniors & more importantly the Juniors. How can rinks from Nunavut improve when the nearest “Rival Club” can only be accessed by plane? The odds of staging a meaningful bonspiel are greater in a place like Phoenix, Arizona than Iqaluit...what’s that you say? Oh... 
Anyway I would contend that they’re no less entitled to a spot than any other association-as long as they pay their dues. TSN could show their game against Yukon on Sunday morning (up in the high number channels, while they show soccer or F1 on the main station).

As I’m prone to say-fire away!

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Registered: Apr 2014
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quote:

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Originally posted by ott-am

I am not sure why jamcan does not think you can express your opinion because you have not had 2000 posts in the last 15 years?

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Last edited by On The Nose on 03-31-16 at 01:41AM

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Having two pools in a tournament can allow for more teams to participate and can provide a more diverse range of opponents for each team to play against. However, retro bowl as you mentioned, it can also lead to some teams not playing against certain top teams and potentially more blowout games.

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This article has inspired me to learn more about 2048 cupcakes the subject matter. The author's passion is contagious and has sparked a newfound curiosity in me.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Three
Hey Marco, glad you are posting ideas. I think pool play for Brier or Scotties is dumb. You can see my rant in this older thread...where some ideas are kicked around.

http://www.curlingzone.com/showthre...25&pagenumber=1 melon playground


I think 10 Provs, Northern Ont, Team Canada, + One Territory is the way to go. Yes it adds another game to the round robin, so you have to find room for 12 more games. There is room on the first Saturday for 6 of those games (add third draw). 4 more games come in the first Monday which only has two draws. Leave room for up to three tie-breakers by squeezing in a fourth draw one day to make up the remaining 2 games. Not great, but way better than two pools.

Or get rid of Northern Ont and go with current schedule, the Ontario women ran like this for decades until recently.

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Registered: Jul 2023
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quote:

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Originally posted by Marco2010


Hi Three. I'm not a fan of pools either and I'm also uncomfortable with new regional associations getting direct entry to the Brier/Scotties. Since there will be a minimum of 14 teams and probably 16 teams in 2018 my suggestion of A & B pools is just an attempt to maximise interest for the fans and offer a challenge during the week for all teams.

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I have found a lot of useful and fascinating slope information from your article, especially the practical examples and illustrations.

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