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Draw: 3 -- Fri, Jan 28 -- 7:00pm CET
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01-12-22 08:23PM
curlingclips is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlingclips Find more posts by curlingclips Add curlingclips to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
Yet another example of how WC would rather see anything happen than actual curling.

Actually, if you dive deeper and compare WCF rules against Curling Canada's, there's a few areas where Canada is actually the one that would rather not see actual curling.

For example, WCF rules allow a 4-person mixed team to play with only 3 players (rule R15(b)). Curling Canada insists that all 4 players must be on the ice at all times (rule 5(5)(c)(i)), so if a player is missing/ejected by umpire, the whole team forfeits immediately.

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01-12-22 09:12PM
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oliviertoisel
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips

Actually, if you dive deeper and compare WCF rules against Curling Canada's, there's a few areas where Canada is actually the one that would rather not see actual curling.

For example, WCF rules allow a 4-person mixed team to play with only 3 players (rule R15(b)). Curling Canada insists that all 4 players must be on the ice at all times (rule 5(5)(c)(i)), so if a player is missing/ejected by umpire, the whole team forfeits immediately.



Canadian teams have alternates?

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01-12-22 09:30PM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
Canadian teams have alternates?

There are no alternates in mixed doubles or mixed 4-person curling. This is true for both WCF and Canada.

If one person in a mixed doubles team can not play, the whole team forfeits.

The big difference is that whereas a 4-person mixed team can play with only 3 players in WCF, it's instant forfeit in Canada.

Here's rule 21(8) from Curling Canada Rules for Officiated Play, 2018-2022.
quote:
(8) The Chief Umpire may expel a player or coach from the game or competition area for what they consider to be abusive or unacceptable behaviour including refusal to comply with the rules and direction provided by an umpire. If a player is ejected from the game or competition area they cannot be replaced by an alternate player. The team must continue with three (3) players. If an additional player is ejected from the game, the team will forfeit the game.
Exception: Two (2) person Mixed Doubles and Four (4) person mixed curling. If a player is ejected from the game the team will forfeit the game.

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01-12-22 10:28PM
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oliviertoisel
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So your point is…? That rule in a discipline WC doesn’t even support in any major way is somehow equal to rule changes that curlers around the world have criticized? The MD rule makes obvious sense since it is a two person team. No idea why the 4 person rule is that other than you would need 2 alternates if they were allowed; presumably CC made a decision to preserve the integrity of mixed play and WC didn’t. None of that changes how WC is a slave to the business of curling with very little interest in the game/sport. It’s why decisions such as their time rules are all about making games short and predictable. It’s why they’re trying to get rid of extra ends. Or changing to timed ends. All the same logic. I’m just a nobody but when the curlers are posting essays about how dumb this stuff is…

Last edited by oliviertoisel on 01-12-22 at 10:43PM

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01-12-22 10:47PM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
So your point is…?

My point is that WCF allows a 4-person mixed team to play with only 3 players, while Curling Canada would rather forfeit the team and not see them play.

And yes, this rule has been tested: Kazakhstan played with only 3 players at 2019 World Mixed Curling Championship.

https://curlit.com/PDF/WMxCC2019_ResultsBook.pdf
KAZ - Kazakhstan
(V) ALLIYAROVA Sitora F
(S) ZHUZBAY Abylaikhan M
EBAUYER Angelina F

Coincidentally, Canada won this one, and that's how Canada got the youngest curling world champion, excluding junior championships, in Meghan Walter.

https://www.brandonsun.com/sports/c...-568581511.html
"I honestly couldn’t imagine being a world champion at 17," she said. "Winning an adult event before a junior event is kind of surprising."

Fun fact: she beat Kerri Einarson's mixed team to win Manitoba.

Last edited by curlingclips on 01-12-22 at 10:57PM

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01-13-22 09:18AM
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oliviertoisel
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But in mixed curling you have to choose whether or not to actually honour the mixed element. Apparently CC says it is essential and WC says it is not. Very different from rules that literally do as much as possible to shorten and constrain play solely to keep it to some imaginary TV broadcaster’s time limit.

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01-13-22 09:30AM
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Does running out of time just disqualify your team from throwing rocks?
For example, you run out of time, the opposing player throws a heavy draw. Can your skip sweep it once it crosses the hog line?

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01-13-22 09:54AM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
But in mixed curling you have to choose whether or not to actually honour the mixed element. Apparently CC says it is essential and WC says it is not.


Both WCF and Curling Canada honors the mixed element. The difference is that WCF allows some imbalance between males & females when you only have 3 players. Curling Canada requires perfect balance between males and females at all times, and it also honors the traditional skip throws last and vice throws third setup.

Here's WCF 2020 rule R15:
quote:

(a) Each team shall have two male and two female players and the male and female players must deliver stones alternately (M, F, M, F - or - F, M, F, M). No alternate players are permitted.
(b) If a team plays with three players, the alternate gender order of delivery must be maintained (M, F, M - or - F, M, F). If this occurs while a game is in progress, the delivery rotation can be changed to meet this criterion.
(c) The skip and vice-skip can be anyone in the team, but they must be from opposite genders.


Here's Curling Canada Rules 2018-2022, rule 5(5)
quote:
Four-person mixed curling must always have four players on the ice with two men and two women alternating delivery of stones. The skip must deliver fourth stones and the player acting as vice-skip must deliver third stones and be the opposite gender.


It's worth noting that Curling Canada does allow a wheelchair team to only play with 3, as long as the mixed element is still honored.

quote:
Curling Canada-sanctioned wheelchair competitions require that all participating teams be comprised of players of both genders for all games. Teams may play with three (3) assuming both genders are present.

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01-13-22 10:01AM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnysmoke
Does running out of time just disqualify your team from throwing rocks?
For example, you run out of time, the opposing player throws a heavy draw. Can your skip sweep it once it crosses the hog line?


20(4)(a) says that while the non-offending team continues playing, the offending team becomes the non-delivering team, "and all the rules shall be applied accordingly" (exact quote).

So yes, in my interpretation, the offending team can still sweep opposition stones behind tee line.

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01-13-22 11:26PM
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Loss due to running out of time

A rare video of a team losing due to running out of time, the 2016 Pacific-Asia Championship women's round robin match between China and Korea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdp3atkMC_M

Go to about 2:55:30 to see it happen.

(they would go on to have a proper re-match in the finals, also won by Korea)

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01-14-22 12:21AM
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IN-OFF-FOR-2
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Why not discuss instead of trying to out do each other with links and clips and lips. Good gravy. Just discuss instead of finding 20 clips of for and against. Stop. Or even better, first hand accounts of on ice experience. Oh that’s right, neither of you can’t spell asham or hardline, goldline, balance plus etc etc. Shhhh.
Those who can do.....

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01-14-22 09:52PM
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hailstone
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On a completely unrelated note, why doesn't the "Report this post to a moderator" link work?

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Curling Scores

W: International Bernese Ladies Cup
Bern, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Fri, Jan 28 -- 7:00pm CET
Morrison Final
Keiser (8)
Huerlimann Final
Jentsch (8)
Loritz Final
Muhmenthaler (7)
Schori Final
Farmer (8)
Wrana Final
Wuest 10  (6)
Henderson 10  Final
Mueller (8)
Gimmel Final
MacDonald (8)
Stabulniece Final
Rieder (7)
Full Scoreboard  |  Play Fantasy Pick'em!  

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