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01-12-22 11:42AM
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What happens when you run out of time in Brier/Scotties?

I know what happens in WCF competitions (if you run out of time, you forfeit the game, you get an L on the scoreboard and the opposition gets a W), but what happens at the Brier/Scotties?

Has it ever happened before that a team ran out of time at a Brier/Scotties?

I realize that the answer may depend on which era we're talking about, so feel free to elaborate. Preferably I would like to see references where we can verify the claims.

Thanks in advance.

------------------

A related question is this: is there a sanctioning body that lets the game continues on as basically a one-team game? (i.e. the team whose clock did not run out keeps playing unopposed, and does not win until they can outscore the team whose clock ran out).

----------------------

//edit: https://i.imgur.com/cadY61U.jpg

Last edited by curlingclips on 01-13-22 at 09:56AM

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01-12-22 12:22PM
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Their entire rule book is online: https://www.curling.ca/about-curlin...r-general-play/. For general play there is no time.

At the Scotties/Brier if you run out the other team gets to keep throwing their rocks until end of game. I don’t see the rule book for officiated play online, but if you email them they will send it assuming it exists still. Not sure about 2022 since it seems in flux.

Last edited by oliviertoisel on 01-12-22 at 12:31PM

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01-12-22 12:32PM
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quote:
Originally posted by oliviertoisel
the rule book for officiated play

This would be one place to look, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the Brier/Scotties have their own rule books.

I looked into official media guides, but could not find a definitive answer.

Here's 2021 pre-trial media guide. Thinking time is on page 7. No penalty mentioned.
https://www.curling.ca/files/2021/1...dia-guide-3.pdf

Here's 2021 Brier media guide. Thinking time is on page 6. No penalty mentioned.
https://www.curling.ca/files/2021/0...-guide-web4.pdf

Here's 2021 Scotties media guide. Thinking time is on page 6. No penalty mentioned.
https://www.curling.ca/files/2021/0...dia-guide-1.pdf

Last edited by curlingclips on 01-12-22 at 12:38PM

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01-12-22 12:42PM
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In Canada if you run out of time you don’t automatically lose. You can no longer throw any remaining rocks. For example if you run out of time with 2 rocks left, you can’t throw them but your opposing team can continue to throw theirs in order to finish off the game. I don’t have the link but it’s somewhere in the cc rule book.

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01-12-22 12:55PM
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Have both teams ever run out of time before the finish? Is that eventuality accounted for in the rules?

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01-12-22 01:02PM
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I don’t ever recall both teams running out of rocks. But if they did the rule says can’t continue to throw so both teams would stop. The end would be over and scored on where the rocks in play lay

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01-12-22 01:07PM
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John Cullen wrote to me on Twitter that Kelley Law had a famous incident where she ran out of time, possibly at a grand slam. Does anyone know more about this incident? I'd love to dig up the video if it exists.

//edit: apparently it was at the 2001 JVC TSN Skins game in Royal City CC (Kelley Law's home club).

* This was playing time, not thinking time.
* Law basically also ran out of time during the semi, but TSN swept it under the rug.
* Law ran out of time again in the final. This time TSN couldn't sweep it under the rug due to scheduling conflict. They had to terminate the game on schedule, so Law lost the final to Middaugh.

Last edited by curlingclips on 01-12-22 at 03:14PM

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01-12-22 01:28PM
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Supposedly there's a lot of Canadian curlers in this forum, right? Someone has got to have the rule book lying around somewhere, right? Can you take a photo and post it somewhere?

Thanks in advance.

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01-12-22 01:42PM
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You need someone who has the rule book for these specific events, though. Why impose on someone to dig that out and photo it when you could send a couple emails right to CC itself? The worst that can happen is they don’t respond.

I remember Guy Hemings ran out of time once back at the Brier in the early aughts.

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01-12-22 02:19PM
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I found a semi-official source, which supposedly cites Rules for Officiated Play 2012-2014.

https://peicurling.com/wp-content/u...inking-Time.pdf

This corroborates the "you stop throwing, but you don't lose until the opposition outscores you" philosophy.

Not sure if this is still the case in 2022.

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01-12-22 02:43PM
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Here's one from 2019.

https://s27134.pcdn.co/wp-content/u...-Guide-2019.pdf

quote:

13.The team’s final stone must reach the near tee-line prior to their time expiring to avoid a potential forfeiture of the game due to a game time violation.

14. As per CC rules, a team may continue play after their opponent’s clock has expired in attempt to tie or win the game within their allotted time.

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01-12-22 02:48PM
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To provide context, here's what other sanctioning bodies say:

SCO, 2019
https://www.scottishcurling.org/wp-...-2020-FINAL.pdf

WCF, 2020
https://s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...-of-Curling.pdf

USA, 2019
https://www.teamusa.org/-/media/USA...-of-Curling.pdf

All 3 say: "Each team must complete its part of a game within the time given, or forfeit the game."

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01-12-22 04:20PM
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A team may continue play after their opponent’s game clock has
expired in an attempt to tie or win the game within their allotted game
time.
(a) The team whose time has expired shall be considered the non-
delivering team from this point on and all rules shall be applied
accordingly.
(b) The non-offending team shall be allotted an interval of a
maximum of twenty (20) seconds between their consecutive
deliveries. Time management shall be under the direction of the
Chief Umpire who shall communicate as required with the Time
Clock Supervisor. Their time clock shall start at the expiration of
the 20-second interval. The time clock will stop when the
delivered stone reaches the nearer tee-line.
(c) If the non-offending team scores sufficient additional points to
win the game within their allotted time, they shall be declared the
winner.
(d) If the non-offending team scores sufficient additional points to tie
the game within their game time, an extra end(s) shall be played
in accordance with Rule 13(13). The team that incurred the time
violation shall deliver the first stone of the extra end.
(e) If the non-offending team is unable to score sufficient additional
points to tie or win the game within their allotted time, they shall
lose the game.

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01-12-22 04:25PM
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Basically if the team is behind and runs out of time the game is over. If the team that is ahead runs out of time the team that is trailing and has time can continue to throw their rocks until the score enough points to win or tie the game, or run out of rocks and cannot score enough points.

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01-12-22 04:33PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
Basically if the team is behind and runs out of time the game is over. If the team that is ahead runs out of time the team that is trailing and has time can continue to throw their rocks until the score enough points to win or tie the game, or run out of rocks and cannot score enough points.




Unless, if the team that is behind that ran out of time is sitting 3 in the house. The team ahead with time would still have to remove enough rocks or draw closer to the pin to keep their lead. Still possible to run out of time and win.

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01-12-22 04:55PM
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You Canadians are so adorable!!

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01-12-22 04:57PM
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quote:
Originally posted by IN-OFF-FOR-2




Unless, if the team that is behind that ran out of time is sitting 3 in the house. The team ahead with time would still have to remove enough rocks or draw closer to the pin to keep their lead. Still possible to run out of time and win.



That's what the last part of the statement says.

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01-12-22 05:07PM
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I finally got someone to send me a photo of what I can reasonably believe is the actual Curling Canada rulebook.

https://i.imgur.com/XoBeb2o.jpg

This confirms that in Canada, the scoreboard is more important than the clock. Everywhere else in the world, the clock is more important than the scoreboard.

In other words, in Canada, curling is more important than time itself.

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01-12-22 05:29PM
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
I finally got someone to send me a photo of what I can reasonably believe is the actual Curling Canada rulebook.

https://i.imgur.com/XoBeb2o.jpg

This confirms that in Canada, the scoreboard is more important than the clock. Everywhere else in the world, the clock is more important than the scoreboard.

In other words, in Canada, curling is more important than time itself.



The part I posted is directly from the current Curling Canada rule book.

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01-12-22 05:38PM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
The part I posted is directly from the current Curling Canada rule book.

Yes, in a glance, the part you posted seems consistent word-for-word with 20.(4) in the photo.

The photo also includes 20.(3), which I would argue is just as, if not more important than 20.(4), because that's where the keyword "penalty" is used.

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01-12-22 05:55PM
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips

Yes, in a glance, the part you posted seems consistent word-for-word with 20.(4) in the photo.

The photo also includes 20.(3), which I would argue is just as, if not more important than 20.(4), because that's where the keyword "penalty" is used.



Its directly from the current rulebook, I have it on my phone.

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01-12-22 06:01PM
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curlingclips
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quote:
Originally posted by dugless_zone 13

Its directly from the current rulebook, I have it on my phone.


How is it on your phone? Is it a pdf that you can share with us/me? Is it an official Curling Canada app?

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01-12-22 06:54PM
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What is your email

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01-12-22 06:58PM
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GOT IT! Many thanks!

Last edited by curlingclips on 01-12-22 at 07:02PM

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01-12-22 08:09PM
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
In other words, in Canada, curling is more important than time itself.


Yet another example of how WC would rather see anything happen than actual curling. Their ideal curling game is just LSD and the winner wins the championship.

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Curling Scores

W: International Bernese Ladies Cup
Bern, SUI
Teams | Scores | Standings | Playoffs
Draw: 3 -- Fri, Jan 28 -- 7:00pm CET
Morrison Final
Keiser (8)
Huerlimann Final
Jentsch (8)
Loritz Final
Muhmenthaler (7)
Schori Final
Farmer (8)
Wrana Final
Wuest 10  (6)
Henderson 10  Final
Mueller (8)
Gimmel Final
MacDonald (8)
Stabulniece Final
Rieder (7)
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