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05-04-20 09:18AM
Manitoba Legend is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Manitoba Legend Click here to Send Manitoba Legend a Private Message Find more posts by Manitoba Legend Add Manitoba Legend to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Manitoba Legend
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Top 10 Female Shooters (2000-current)

1. Ana Hasselborg - has really blossomed into the most consistent & reliable skip in the world

2. Rachel Homan - nobody splits the hair of the dog more than Rachel. Her laser-like aim and effortless (huge amount of training) delivery mark her as an ever-present danger. She must be frightening to play against - now adding nuances of light to medium weight shots to her quiver - plus newfound skills of changing her release to effect different outcomes.

3. Kerri Einarson - a mercurial shooter who has come a long way in the last 5 to 6 years. Doesn't put in the mega-training like Homan, which may account in part for all too frequent low-energy or low %'ge outings. When she's on she's virtually unstoppable.

4. Sandra Schmirler - more storied than any of above but wasn't able to put in the training (era of semi-professional curling) in. That said, a marvellous shooter with the best attitude.

5. Shannon Birchard - eventually destined to skip her own team, Shannon is the best non-skip or 3rd shooter in the game.

6. Krista McCarville - from a defensive point of view, she's the best, however factor in her listless offensive powers and she's slotted in at #6.

7. Jennifer Jones - if we extract only her spectacular performance during her unbeaten Olympic gold medal run, she's easily #1. However, Jones is far from the most consistent shooter in the game. She's become a complete up 'n downer - you never know what you're going to get with JJ - other than too many routine misses.

9. Emma Miskew - great curler who's evolved into one of the greatest 3rds in curling history. Bit of a Hec Gervais pusher but her stats speak for themselves.

10. Kaitlyn Lawes - she'd be a bit higher on this list but her last couple years have been a downer. Some misses, however can be attributed to playing for Jennifer Jones, who has a poor track record with bad icing & weight calls.

11. Eve Muirhead - 5 yrs ago she might be #1 or #2 on such a list - but she's fallen, and sometimes fallen badly. Health concerns have dogged her.

12. Hasselborg's 3rd, Sara McManus

13. Tabitha Peterson (USA)

14. Dawn McEwen/Lisa Weagle (tie)

15. Shannon Kleibrink (great individual shooter without a Scotties gold) never able to cobble together a great team but a great shooter nonetheless.

Hon. mentions: Kelly Scott (draws only), Kim Kelly, Sarah Wilkes, Val Sweeting, Jill Officer, couple Swiss fire-crackers.

15.

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05-05-20 08:02PM
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Wow...no Annette Norberg?

Two Olympic gold, three world championships and seven europeans after 2000. Seems like she might make the list?

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05-05-20 11:01PM
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WTF

Just spent 10 minutes replying to ML and the site crashed AGAIN. Ftlog fix this. Half the time the site is "down" .

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05-06-20 08:53AM
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Re: Wow...no Annette Norberg?

quote:
Originally posted by Curlwalker
Two Olympic gold, three world championships and seven europeans after 2000. Seems like she might make the list?


Norberg should be on - even though her era just cusped the era I was covering.

Her 3rd was pretty darn good, too.

Also got a couple PM e-mails from friends in Sask'n asking how I could miss Jan Betker (Schmirler's 3rd)

Couple jokers said no ML list would be complete without The Shredder (Jeanna Schraeder) being on it.

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05-06-20 06:34PM
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What no respect for Chelsea? Great shooter, 2 Scotties, I'll take her shotmaking skills over many on your list, Lawes, Miskew, Birchard, Mccarville, Peterson, McEwen, Wilkes, Weagle…

Also would put Paetz in top 5 for sure.

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05-06-20 06:52PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hogged again
What no respect for Chelsea? Great shooter, 2 Scotties, I'll take her shotmaking skills over many on your list, Lawes, Miskew, Birchard, Mccarville, Peterson, McEwen, Wilkes, Weagle…

Also would put Paetz in top 5 for sure.



Based on her best 3 years Paetz certainly would challenge for the Top 5. I agree. Based on her entire body of work Paetz should minimally be in Top 10.

Don't agree about Chelsea. Her game is very rugged indeed but she's extremely mercurial (ie. up & down). And since I put this purely as shooting skills - I didn't factor in her inability to keep her teams together - her history is that of an itinerant curler.

Chelsea is nowhere near players like Schmirler, Homan, Hasselborg, etc. in terms of sheer consistency.

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05-06-20 09:28PM
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Amber Holland. Single handedly took down ML's JJ in Charlottetown. Now she's a shooter.

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05-06-20 09:39PM
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Amber Holland's performance against JJ Jones was one for the ages. She (and her squad) refused to be intimidated by Jones squad's reputation.

Holland snakes thru ports that barely existed, made draws from a sheet over into the side 4, she was incredible. That said, Jones still had a relatively simple short tap-angle raise with her final stone to snare Gold. Jones thought she actually had the shot made at the hog-line but as usual, screwed up the call.

All told, Holland had one amazing year taking out Jones and has been a force in Saskatchewan curling for a couple decades - but she's NOT a Top 10.

I'd put Jeather Nedohin, Chris Pidzarko, Michelle Ridgeway & Heather Houston ahead of Amber. Linda Moore was also a pretty cool shooter.

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05-06-20 11:38PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Chelsea is nowhere near players like Schmirler, Homan, Hasselborg, etc. in terms of sheer consistency.


Agreed, but I don’t believe consistency was part of your initial post. I’ve heard some curlers say Chelsea Carey has as much natural shot-making ability as anyone.

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05-07-20 12:31AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
[B]Amber Holland's performance against JJ Jones was one for the ages. She (and her squad) refused to be intimidated by Jones squad's reputation.

Holland snakes thru ports that barely existed, made draws from a sheet over into the side 4, she was incredible. That said, Jones still had a relatively simple short tap-angle raise with her final stone to snare Gold. Jones thought she actually had the shot made at the hog-line but as usual, screwed up the call.

All told, Holland had one amazing year taking out Jones and has been a force in Saskatchewan curling for a couple decades - but she's NOT a Top 10.

I'd put Jeather Nedohin, Chris Pidzarko, Michelle Ridgeway & Heather Houston ahead of Amber. Linda Moore was also a pretty cool shooter.


Shooters since 2000...hmmm, Linda Moore? She's been retired since 2000.

Here's a few

Sherry middaugh
Suzanne birt
Tracey fleury
Andrea Crawford
Kate Cameron
Marie France LaRouche
6 more Swiss in the last 10 years.

Do you think before you type.

All of these mentioned are above you're number 13 who had ONE above average year vs many years of shot making. How is it on the on the bandwagon in the basement

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05-07-20 06:02AM
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Re: Re: Wow...no Annette Norberg?

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


Norberg should be on - even though her era just cusped the era I was covering.




Norberg won all her Olympic golds and world championships in the 2000s... Sandra Schmirler passed away March 2 2000... If you did a top shooters list for the 90s Schmirler would be No.1

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05-07-20 10:37PM
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Chels Carey is an elite curler, of that there is no question.

However, the last (and prolly final) Scotties she won - Rachel Homan inexplicably fell apart at the seams, last two ends. That was the game that also cost Lisa Weagle her job when Chelsea's 3rd, Sara Wilkes came available.

Rachel lost 2 Scotties in a row. With Carey she fell apart at the end - with Einarson she couldn't withstand an early Einarson onslaught. By the time she righted herself and started to pelt Einarson with everything under the sun, Homan was stunned when Einarson refused to crack - and made her final great stone in the extra.

The year before that - Michelle Ridgeway, skipping a ragtag Manitoba group had Rachel reeling from pillar to post - but the elderly Michelle, despite one of her most brilliant games in an illustrious career couldn't make enough shots down the stretch and Rachel was able to cop her 3rd STOH.

Rachel is an amazing shooter. Accurate, well-balanced, ultra-focused & super well-trained. However, she gets caught in that old web called pressure in those big-time games.

Barely survived Ridgeway.
Choked severely vs. Carey.
Gave Einarson too much lead before recovering late.

Einarson deserved her conquest of Team Homan.

Carey didn't.

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05-08-20 12:22PM
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All sage points, ML. But your initial post says nothing about deserved Scotties wins or curling consistency. It mentions shot-making. Only shot-making. By that criteria, CC belongs in my book.

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05-08-20 01:19PM
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Amy Nixon had a very honest chat with 2girlsandagame, and she claimed that Chelsea is the best shot maker if she's playing at her best (which unfortunately isn't always all the time).

https://2girlsandagame.libsyn.com/s...pener-amy-nixon

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05-08-20 03:18PM
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
Amy Nixon had a very honest chat with 2girlsandagame, and she claimed that Chelsea is the best shot maker if she's playing at her best (which unfortunately isn't always all the time).

https://2girlsandagame.libsyn.com/s...pener-amy-nixon



Actually I agree with Amy Nixon. Chelsea is the Have Gun, Will Travel of female curling.

When she's on she's virtually unbeatable - other than by killers like Homan, Hasselborg, JJ, Paetz.
Killers don't care what percentage you're shooting - their teams are loaded with the best shot-pelters and that's not easily survivable, even by Aces like Carey.

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05-09-20 01:34PM
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I could be wrong, but my understanding of the term "shot maker" takes the opposition completely out of the picture. It's basically a solitaire game played by yourself, like the singles in old Continental Cup, or the now defunct Hot Shot challenge. Slip through this port and come in-off for double takeout and roll to the button circus shot kind of thing.

Within the context of a traditional vs game of curling, the question is not "Who will win more between these two?", but more like "If you can tag in any curler in the world to get into the hack right now and make this shot for your team, who will it be?".

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05-09-20 03:54PM
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Manitoba Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by curlingclips
I could be wrong, but my understanding of the term "shot maker" takes the opposition completely out of the picture. It's basically a solitaire game played by yourself, like the singles in old Continental Cup, or the now defunct Hot Shot challenge. Slip through this port and come in-off for double takeout and roll to the button circus shot kind of thing.

Within the context of a traditional vs game of curling, the question is not "Who will win more between these two?", but more like "If you can tag in any curler in the world to get into the hack right now and make this shot for your team, who will it be?".



The term "Shot-Maker" takes almost everything into account - especially one's opposition.

JJ Jones is no longer a very high percentage curler - but she's still a monster when tough, seemingly unmakeable shots have to be made.

Rachel Homan is a super strong shot-pelter who seems to encounter problems in difficult/complex situations.

Shannon Birchard is obviously a skip-in-training who is a very high percentage shot-maker; also has a great curling mind.

I never regarded Heather Nedohin, Stef Lwton, Sherry Middaugh as great shot-makers. They had competitive teams - they gave lots of teams a run for their money - but other than Nedohin, not a lot of silverware to show for it.

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05-09-20 05:51PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


I never regarded Heather Nedohin, Stef Lwton, Sherry Middaugh as great shot-makers. They had competitive teams - they gave lots of teams a run for their money - but other than Nedohin, not a lot of silverware to show for it.



And yet your list has Mccarville at #6 and she fits right in perfectly with above names, run for the money but no silverware. Not to mention Peterson and a couple leads who throw only draws in top 15 but Carey who actually cashed in twice in the Scotties doesn't rate.

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05-09-20 05:57PM
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I'm a new fan, so I can only propose a newer name: Briar Hürlimann. She's scary good when she's on, and she's only getting better. Team Stern went undefeated in this year's Swiss championships, 3-0 against 2019 world champions Team Tirinzoni. I guess you better be a shot maker when you're named after the Brier.

Last edited by curlingclips on 05-09-20 at 06:00PM

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05-10-20 09:23AM
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Someone PM'd me about Kaitlyn Lawes (#10 on my list) being far too highly rated.

Main reason was Kaitlyn was the hottest junior in the game back 12 years ago - she managed to smother both Rachel Homan (w/ Miskew) & Casey Scheidegger in back to back years.

However, Kaitlyn kinda feebled out at the worlds; essentially choking 2 world titles away. that's why she was seen as 3rd material (1st by Cathy King in Alberta) before Jones picked her up after tying the can to Cathy O.

Kaitlyn's #'s have always been very good - but certainly not great. Part of it is her skip's erratic strategy where the degree of difficulty is multiplied due to Jones' reliance on complexity.
The other more fundamental reason is Lawes being off-broomed and poor-weighted at the tee by Jones & brushers. Lawes is very good - she's almost always super close to the desired result but can't match folks like Miskew & Sara McManus for actual rock positioning.

I tend to agree. Lawes should barely make Top 15, although to exclude her from the Top 20 would be unfair & cruel.

By the same token, once JJ leaves the game I don't think Kaitlyn should automatically ascend to skipping. She's a glorious & decorated curler, one who prolly has the most fans of any female curler in Canada - but her natural position is 3rd.

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05-10-20 10:54AM
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I think we all saw a good display of Kaitlyn Lawes’ curling skills in the Olympic Mixed Doubles gold medal game. A bad skip can make a curling superstar look mediocre.

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05-10-20 11:33AM
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quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad
I think we all saw a good display of Kaitlyn Lawes’ curling skills in the Olympic Mixed Doubles gold medal game. A bad skip can make a curling superstar look mediocre.


There was a show on U.S. network TV a few years back, "EVERYONE LOVES RAYMOND"
Same could be said about K Lawes; she might be the single most popular women's curler in Canada today - she's had to withstand JJ for nearly 8 yrs, she makes a ton of shots, she became a hero carrying Johnny Mo on her back during her amazing gold medal run in Oly doubles and she's always of cheerful demeanour.

If Lawes is the most popular or favorite curler in the country what does the remainder of the list look like? Here's my mini-list.

1. Lawes
2. Kerri Einarson
3. Ashley Maharaj
4. Lisa Weagle
5. Jill Officer (even 2 yrs after she "retired")
6. Valerie Sweeting
7. Shannon BIrchard
8. Jennifer Jones (was #1 for many years)
9. Brown & Ferguson (as a team)
10. Emma Miskew
11. Heather Nedohin
12. Dawn McEwen
13. Sarah Wilkes
14. Jo Courtney
15. Tracy Fleury
16. Brianne Meilleur
17. Michelle Englot
18. Suzanne Birt
19. Chelsea Carey
20. Rachel Homan

Hon. mentions - M-F LaRouche, Cathy Gauthier, Stef Lawton, Amber Holland, Krista McCarville, Kristen McCuish, Kim Kelly.

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05-10-20 01:01PM
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Globally probably Garlic Girls/Eun-Jung Kim and Loco Solare/Satsuki Fujisawa crushes everyone else if we're talking popularity contest.

Here's a list of the most popular videos on Curling Canada's YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/ccacur...ort=p&flow=grid

Looking at full draws only (i.e. exclude highlights and other shorts), the most viewed videos are:
(276k) Homan vs Fujisawa (2018 Continental Cup)
(246k) Englot vs Fujisawa (2018 Continental Cup)
(98k) Fujisawa vs Carey (2017 Continental Cup)
(77k) Englot vs Homan (2017 Scotties)

I can't cite references, but I think the JPN vs KOR semifinal in the 2018 Olympics were viewed by some astronomical number of people in terms of television audience, easily crushing anything in Canada.

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05-10-20 02:00PM
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Important make-good - obviously Sandra Schmirler and her entire team won the hearts & minds of the country during their incredible run - and are still incredibly popular today.

Robyn Silvernagle and her mile-wide smile starting to peek into the curling vernacular but Schmirler is The Curler.

One of my favorites of all time is the 2-time Ontario provincial champion Jen Hanna - who was the victim of JJ Jones' first Explosion Shot. Hanna also provided Jones a missing link to her team, Dawn Askin, who played 2nd for Hanna and obviously caught the eye of JJ during that Scotties.

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05-10-20 03:56PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
If Lawes is the most popular or favorite curler in the country what does the remainder of the list look like? Here's my mini-list.

1. Lawes
2. Kerri Einarson
3. Ashley Maharaj
4. Lisa Weagle
5. Jill Officer (even 2 yrs after she "retired")
6. Valerie Sweeting
7. Shannon BIrchard
8. Jennifer Jones (was #1 for many years)
9. Brown & Ferguson (as a team)
10. Emma Miskew
11. Heather Nedohin
12. Dawn McEwen
13. Sarah Wilkes
14. Jo Courtney
15. Tracy Fleury
16. Brianne Meilleur
17. Michelle Englot
18. Suzanne Birt
19. Chelsea Carey
20. Rachel Homan

Hon. mentions - M-F LaRouche, Cathy Gauthier, Stef Lawton, Amber Holland, Krista McCarville, Kristen McCuish, Kim Kelly.


.
Kelly Scott was annoyingly cheerful...

My personal favourite is Fujisawa. She - and her entire team - are so incredibly genuine and likeable.

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2020 Shorty Jenkins Classic Cancelled

2020 AMJ Campbell Shorty Jenkins Classic presented by Jet Ice, VIA Rail and Choose Cornwall cancelled due to COVID-19 with plans to return in 2021 for the 25th anniversary.

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