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albetts
Drawmaster

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 794

Pre Qualifier

Read this today and thought I'd post it. I'm glad this decision was reached for these curlers. It's from TSN morning mail.

http://www.tsn.ca/curling-s-cruel-p...lifier-1.670548

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Old Post 02-14-17 08:44AM
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nelski
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Hill Bottom Corner
Posts: 1514

Well, two pools of eight it is then, beginning next year. I wonder how they will seed them. Team Canada doesn't seem to do as much curling - although I might be wrong - I will assume their CTRS points are in the pack with the rest of them and seeding will be straight forward. Did the men's championship go the same route?

And here's a cute story about curling couples - scotties and brier bound. Valentines day thingy. http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/c...national-events

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Old Post 02-14-17 08:59AM
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misty1
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
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im glad they are getting rid of the pre-qualifier but i'll never be okay with awarding a team a spot based on ctrs standings.

this whole pre-qualifying thing has just been a mess, a disaster really. teams dont deserve to get treated like that, basically ignored unless they get into the main event.

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Old Post 02-14-17 09:15AM
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darkwing01
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 25

they should seed based on this years finish with those 3 teams at the bottom

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Old Post 02-14-17 01:07PM
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darkwing01
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 25

if koe does not win and gets back next year he should be seeded on Bottchers finish

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Old Post 02-14-17 01:14PM
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Justintwiss
Administrator

Registered: Oct 2013
Location: St.Claude
Posts: 124

quote:
Originally posted by misty1
im glad they are getting rid of the pre-qualifier but i'll never be okay with awarding a team a spot based on ctrs standings.

this whole pre-qualifying thing has just been a mess, a disaster really. teams dont deserve to get treated like that, basically ignored unless they get into the main event.



Agree with not being a fan of the CTRS entry and the pre qualifying. Glad to see it gone for next year.

I do like the Team Canada addition but to make an even draw could the get rid of Canada and go 2 pools of 7? Every prov/ter gets 1 team. Then take the top 3 or 4 teams from each pool and do the champ pool and seed pool before the page playoffs?

Thoughts?

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Old Post 02-14-17 02:49PM
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misty1
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 4803

quote:
Originally posted by Justintwiss


Agree with not being a fan of the CTRS entry and the pre qualifying. Glad to see it gone for next year.

I do like the Team Canada addition but to make an even draw could the get rid of Canada and go 2 pools of 7? Every prov/ter gets 1 team. Then take the top 3 or 4 teams from each pool and do the champ pool and seed pool before the page playoffs?

Thoughts?



they wont be getting rid of canada , they just added it. if canada had not been introduced that maybe could have been a solution. but its all about making money for them and having a team canada is good for them in that regard. thats why they have added this new team , figuring it'll generate more money. there are a whole host of problems i can see because of this change.

i got to say though, im just concerned about what kind of changes may come in the future. you dont need to alter something that doesnt need fixing, it worked before. i can only imagine what they will do in the future

Last edited by misty1 on 02-14-17 at 04:53PM

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Old Post 02-14-17 04:50PM
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tyren
Knee-Slider

Registered: Jun 2016
Location:
Posts: 6

it amazed me how Curling Canada screwed up a system that wasn't broken, all to include a team that doesn't have to playdown to get to the national. I think the main solution is to go back to the way it was and combine the territories, 3 teams total in the 3 playdowns this year... doesnt make sense to just let them go to the national.

10 provinces
3 extra (NONt, Canada, Terr.)

Just add two extra draws and you're good to go.

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Old Post 02-14-17 05:08PM
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decade
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1371

Spending tax payer money and spending our club money on bringing three territories does not make any financial sense,
Giving associations with less than 40 curlers an equal vote at the CC table also does not make sense, Curling must be the only Canadian sport that allows every province/territory/hangers on like NO, to attend a Canadian championship,
Oh watch out here come the feel gooders with the " let's growth the game" line. Come on, be honest!

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Old Post 02-14-17 06:24PM
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Gerry
CZ Founder

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3833

After the Provncial playdowns are completed, the top 2 CTRS teams not qualified should advance to the Brier/Scotties and play a 1-game playoff on the opening draw for the last spot in the event. Those teams will be Tour teams who travel a lot and it wont be a hardship on them, and they will jump at the chance to get in after losing out in the provincials.

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Old Post 02-14-17 08:29PM
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nelski
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Hill Bottom Corner
Posts: 1514

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
After the Provncial playdowns are completed, the top 2 CTRS teams not qualified should advance to the Brier/Scotties and play a 1-game playoff on the opening draw for the last spot in the event. Those teams will be Tour teams who travel a lot and it wont be a hardship on them, and they will jump at the chance to get in after losing out in the provincials.

Now THERE is a good idea.

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Old Post 02-14-17 08:47PM
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Manitoba Legend
Supreme Champion!

Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Hovel of Fame
Posts: 10658

quote:
Originally posted by nelski

Now THERE is a good idea.



I second that! Just do it for the women, too!

This year woulda been Val vs. JJ for the last spot!

A whole lot better than adding another fawn!

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Old Post 02-14-17 08:51PM
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misty1
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 4803

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
After the Provncial playdowns are completed, the top 2 CTRS teams not qualified should advance to the Brier/Scotties and play a 1-game playoff on the opening draw for the last spot in the event. Those teams will be Tour teams who travel a lot and it wont be a hardship on them, and they will jump at the chance to get in after losing out in the provincials.


I am not a fan of this birth in any way but it's going to happen and I have to make peace with that.

I do like your idea of how to it . it takes away the problems that are there with how curling Canada is gonna do it .it's actually a really good solution

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Old Post 02-14-17 09:32PM
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Three
Hitting Paint

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 125

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


I second that! Just do it for the women, too!

This year woulda been Val vs. JJ for the last spot!

A whole lot better than adding another fawn!



If you look at the year to date total (ie. This season of 2016-17) it would have been JJ vs. Flaxey. I don't think curling Canada would use the two year running total but you never know.

On the men's side it would be Reid Carruthers vs John Epping.

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Old Post 02-15-17 12:53AM
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nelsosi
Swing Artist

Registered: Mar 2012
Location: YYZ, Canada
Posts: 396

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
After the Provncial playdowns are completed, the top 2 CTRS teams not qualified should advance to the Brier/Scotties and play a 1-game playoff on the opening draw for the last spot in the event. Those teams will be Tour teams who travel a lot and it wont be a hardship on them, and they will jump at the chance to get in after losing out in the provincials.

That would be an entertaining high-stakes game for sure. Great for the fans. But I cant see the teams involved being big on flying across the country to potentially play in one game and then go home. If that were in place this year, you'd be asking one of Epping or Carruthers to fly to Newfoundland for one game.

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Old Post 02-15-17 09:32AM
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darkwing01
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 25

just take the top team

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Old Post 02-15-17 09:38AM
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CurlingGeek
Hitting Paint

Registered: Apr 2011
Location:
Posts: 195

Anyone planning to be in St Catharines Thursday/Friday? Looking for a volunteer to geek the pre-qualifying games. Contact me at geek@curlinggeek.com

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Old Post 02-15-17 10:05AM
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curler2014
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Dec 2014
Location:
Posts: 56

quote:
Originally posted by nelsosi

That would be an entertaining high-stakes game for sure. Great for the fans. But I cant see the teams involved being big on flying across the country to potentially play in one game and then go home. If that were in place this year, you'd be asking one of Epping or Carruthers to fly to Newfoundland for one game.



How many people on here feel Epping and Carruthers would fly to NFLD (paid for) to play one game for a chance to enter the main brier field. I can almost 100% guarantee you they wouldn't turn it down. Heck, I'd pay my own way or hold a fundraiser at my club to get me there if I was given a chance. This is why I have no issues with the pre qualifier in the first place. You have a chance... I'll take it if you don't want it.

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Old Post 02-16-17 01:14PM
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Gerry
CZ Founder

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3833

quote:
Originally posted by darkwing01
just take the top team


The problem with taking the top team is you leave the door open for teams to throw a game to leave a team home. For example, Gushue being the top CTRS team knows he'd have a spot for sure, he could have just decided to throw his games in the final and allow a 2nd NL team to go, leaving what would have been Carruthers at home.

Gushue would have one less top ranked team to worry about and the worst thing would be that if Boland had won, it would certainly leave a lot of questions and taint their upset win.

It's always better to not put the players in a position where they can take an advantage by losing.

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Old Post 02-16-17 02:36PM
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nelsosi
Swing Artist

Registered: Mar 2012
Location: YYZ, Canada
Posts: 396

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


The problem with taking the top team is you leave the door open for teams to throw a game to leave a team home. For example, Gushue being the top CTRS team knows he'd have a spot for sure, he could have just decided to throw his games in the final and allow a 2nd NL team to go, leaving what would have been Carruthers at home.

Gushue would have one less top ranked team to worry about and the worst thing would be that if Boland had won, it would certainly leave a lot of questions and taint their upset win.

It's always better to not put the players in a position where they can take an advantage by losing.



I'd like to think that we don't need to design a more-complicated-than-necessary qualification system just to negate the possibility of a team tanking a game.

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Old Post 02-16-17 04:44PM
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albetts
Drawmaster

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 794

quote:
Originally posted by nelsosi


I'd like to think that we don't need to design a more-complicated-than-necessary qualification system just to negate the possibility of a team tanking a game.



Right on. Do teams really throw games??? I think not.

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Old Post 02-16-17 04:49PM
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nelsosi
Swing Artist

Registered: Mar 2012
Location: YYZ, Canada
Posts: 396

Can the pre-qualifier games be viewed anywhere? Online? TV?

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Old Post 02-16-17 04:52PM
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Three
Hitting Paint

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 125

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


The problem with taking the top team is you leave the door open for teams to throw a game to leave a team home. For example, Gushue being the top CTRS team knows he'd have a spot for sure, he could have just decided to throw his games in the final and allow a 2nd NL team to go, leaving what would have been Carruthers at home.

Gushue would have one less top ranked team to worry about and the worst thing would be that if Boland had won, it would certainly leave a lot of questions and taint their upset win.

It's always better to not put the players in a position where they can take an advantage by losing.



This is an excellent argument to having some sort of play-in game(s).

Lets suppose Jones lost this year in Manitoba (which she did)...lets also pretend Homan is up by five points to Jones in this year's YTD pts (she actually trails Jones by just five points but has the two year lead). Now suppose for some reason Team Homan had another horrible Ontario final and lost to Julie Hastings this year. What a mess! Tainted wins and finger pointing galore on social media.

There is very little going on in the curling world the week before a Scotties or a Brier. I'd say take the top four points teams and let them shoot it out on the Saturday night with a semi-final & final a week before the event starts. Big ratings and "real" pressure games instead of all the skins game "fun". Hold it at a curling club with good ice and I'd watch for sure.

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misty1
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 4803

quote:
Originally posted by albetts


Right on. Do teams really throw games??? I think not.



maybe not throw them but a couple of those bronze medal games at the brier/scotties have seemed like teams dont really care either way. so maybe they dont throw them but dont put 100% effort in

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misty1
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 4803

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


The problem with taking the top team is you leave the door open for teams to throw a game to leave a team home. For example, Gushue being the top CTRS team knows he'd have a spot for sure, he could have just decided to throw his games in the final and allow a 2nd NL team to go, leaving what would have been Carruthers at home.

Gushue would have one less top ranked team to worry about and the worst thing would be that if Boland had won, it would certainly leave a lot of questions and taint their upset win.

It's always better to not put the players in a position where they can take an advantage by losing.



i dont think a team would ever throw a game Gerry, especially not someone like brad, it seems like that would go against his very fiber.

but a teams focus might not be 100% there and therefor the upset happens without that top team actually throwing it.

of course in that situation, as you correctly pointed out the idea would be planted in a lot of people's minds anwyay

this is why i hate this birth because this issue is gonna come up a lot from now on.

Last edited by misty1 on 02-16-17 at 05:19PM

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