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| 03-18-15 08:30AM |
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Ventry
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 67 |
quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
I'm just going to ask this as part of the debate, but is the Relegation system showing results already in what it's intended to do?
PEI's Adam Casey saw relegation as a bad thing for his province, but instead of giving up he built a team to travel and compete like the elite teams in the game do.
Was part of his success in using the hatred for relegation as a way to generate interest in what doing? Could it have been due to relegation?
There's a huge opportunity here for Nova Scotia teams to ride the wave of disgust over the system and use it to fundraise to be the team to get Nova Scotia back into the Brier. Put together a plan, go out and get some sponsorship.
A funding campaign would likely also have a chance to be very successful to raise some money and build a competitive schedule similar to what Casey did.
The Brier is not where you get "experience" to get better. It's the National Championship. If you're not out playing games all year and getting challenged, you're falling behind. 11 games on that ice is not enough to keep up with teams playing 60-100 games a season under highly competitive conditions.
I thought relegation was about fairness; giving all of its members provinces and territories the chance to participate. Other natl. curling championships include all of its members, why not the Brier?
And what happens if all members do have a number of teams who get sponsors and travel, some of them would still get relegated.
Last edited by Ventry on 03-18-15 at 09:06AM
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| 03-18-15 08:40AM |
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Ventry
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 67 |
quote:
Originally posted by Gerry
While I don't necessarily disagree 5 sheets is a bad idea, the key decision makers don't like it for major events like the Brier and Scotties.
The reasons suggested:
The side sheets are blocked for many fan. I went and sat in the 2nd row in the Saddledome to watch half a game and even with 4 sheets, the half of the sheet on the boards side was blocked. With 5 sheets this would be even worse.
Walkways are required for photographers and especially television. While the Slams do use 5 sheets, the television games are typically scheduled for Sheet C with the 2 walkways.
12 teams into 4 sheets is a clean draw, teams play 2 games a day and it gives them time for deal with other commitments they have during the event.
Whether you agree or not, it is the requests from stakeholders in the game that the Scotties and Brier stick to four sheets.
I assume this is the five sheet explanation.
Sounds like reasonable points as to why you would want to stick with four sheets but I will say again, IMO, it is not close to making it reasonable to exclude your member associations from participating for the reasons stated above. These are minor concerns that can be easily dealt with if needed.
If inclusion was a priority, it would get done. It is hard not to think that less competitive members are being marginalized.
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| 03-18-15 08:51AM |
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mcgregorm89
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 210 |
quote:
Originally posted by Ventry
If Nunavet wants to compete in the Brier, which I'm not sure they do at this point, then go with a two pool system if a round robin is not feasible. IMO, having a Team Canada is OK as long as it doesn't mean other teams are excluded from the Brier.
I think four sheets can work or can be made to work if games were 8 ends and four draws a day were held (for a two pool system where teams would play only twice a day.
They do want to compete and once they are at the levels they will start sending teams like they do for juniors and mixed. 8 end games should be the next change that comes to the event but the only problem with changing now is the WCF and IOC want 10 ends and the national tournaments need to follow the international style.
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| 03-18-15 09:04AM |
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Ventry
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 67 |
quote:
Originally posted by mcgregorm89
They do want to compete and once they are at the levels they will start sending teams like they do for juniors and mixed. 8 end games should be the next change that comes to the event but the only problem with changing now is the WCF and IOC want 10 ends and the national tournaments need to follow the international style.
Great include Nunavet then, and whoever else, and come up with a way to make it work.
8 ends, five sheets, four draws a day, lengthen the event, whatever. I'm sure it can be figured out if inclusion, development and fairness are priorities.
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| 03-18-15 09:08AM |
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mcgregorm89
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 210 |
quote:
Originally posted by Ventry
Great include Nunavet then, and whoever else, and come up with a way to make it work.
8 ends, five sheets, four draws a day, lengthen the event, whatever. I'm sure it can be figured out if inclusion, development and fairness are priorities.
That is the best solution but it will never happen unless Curling Canada wants it too. They don't care what the fans want. It's why I'm looking forward to the grand slams now, and see what their championship is like next year. At least they listen to the curlers and fans.
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| 03-18-15 09:34AM |
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Ventry
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 67 |
quote:
Originally posted by mcgregorm89
That is the best solution but it will never happen unless Curling Canada wants it too. They don't care what the fans want. It's why I'm looking forward to the grand slams now, and see what their championship is like next year. At least they listen to the curlers and fans.
I would be interested to know why my tax dollars are being spent on organization that is not representing its national mandate.
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| 03-18-15 09:49AM |
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mcgregorm89
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 210 |
quote:
Originally posted by Ventry
I would be interested to know why my tax dollars are being spent on organization that is not representing its national mandate.
Curling is probably the best represented national championship still. There is no other national championship that has every province represented. Yes relegation sucks but it's in place and not going any where. Other national championships can have non Canadians win, yet those sports get national funding.
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| 03-18-15 10:00AM |
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Ventry
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 67 |
quote:
Originally posted by mcgregorm89
Curling is probably the best represented national championship still. There is no other national championship that has every province represented. Yes relegation sucks but it's in place and not going any where. Other national championships can have non Canadians win, yet those sports get national funding.
Two wrongs don't make a right, and is there any natl championship that goes far beyond the sport itself than the Brier? It is a piece of Canadiana.
Representation from across the country has made the event what it is. The sparse crowds at Slam events is proof of that.
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| 03-18-15 10:08AM |
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mcgregorm89
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 210 |
quote:
Originally posted by Ventry
Two wrongs don't make a right, and is there any natl championship that goes far beyond the sport itself than the Brier? It is a piece of Canadian.
The grey cup, that's a big part of Canada, yet not every province is represented. The brier has never had every part of Canada represented, why was the north forced together when they are separate territories. Yukon and the NWT shouldn't have to take turns going. I don't see NS and NB or PEI wanting to take turns representing the east l, the North shouldn't of been any different.
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| 03-18-15 10:33AM |
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Ventry
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 67 |
quote:
Originally posted by mcgregorm89
The grey cup, that's a big part of Canada, yet not every province is represented. The brier has never had every part of Canada represented, why was the north forced together when they are separate territories. Yukon and the NWT shouldn't have to take turns going. I don't see NS and NB or PEI wanting to take turns representing the east l, the North shouldn't of been any different.
I agree the Grey Cup is another great natl event but the CFL is a private enterprise isn't it?
You are preaching to the choir in terms of inclusion. As a fan I guess I see a need to pressure CCA to get rid of relegation.
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| 03-18-15 10:36AM |
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mcgregorm89
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 210 |
quote:
Originally posted by Ventry
I agree the Grey Cup is another great natl event but the CFL is a private enterprise isn't it?
You are preaching to the choir in terms of inclusion. As a fan I guess I see a need to pressure CCA to get rid of relegation.
I believe the CFL is private but does receive national funding, but it's mainly private. As for relegation we just need the curlers to boycott like they did before, this will work better than any fan boycott or protest. I do like the pool system you've suggested.
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| 03-18-15 02:01PM |
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Ventry
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 67 |
quote:
Originally posted by mcgregorm89
The grey cup, that's a big part of Canada, yet not every province is represented. The brier has never had every part of Canada represented, why was the north forced together when they are separate territories. Yukon and the NWT shouldn't have to take turns going. I don't see NS and NB or PEI wanting to take turns representing the east l, the North shouldn't of been any different.
Not that you are playing this card but CCA seems to want to position the new format as being inclusive and fairer than the old one, and that equality has never been guaranteed.
I find that to be somewhat disingenuous.
Did it make sense at the time to not include both territories based on the strength of their curling programs? I think it was definitely more justifiable than changing the format to exclude 3 associations.
When all the other championships save for the Scotties do include all of its members, the "its never been about equal participation" rings pretty hollow.
I wish the CCA would just come out and say they don't give a **** about the smaller provinces and territories than try to BS their way around it.
I am on board with a sponsor boycott if the CCA is unwilling to change the format.
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| 03-18-15 02:21PM |
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Ventry
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 67 |
You know what else sounds disingenuous?
The reason to not go to a 14 team pool is that everyone would not play everyone as they do now. So how did everyone fair against NS and the Yukon this year?
Having two pools would eliminate a few mismatches and very likely would rarely see matchups between the heavyweights not take place after reseeding is done after a preliminary round robin.
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| 03-18-15 04:03PM |
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mcgregorm89
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 210 |
quote:
Originally posted by Ventry
You know what else sounds disingenuous?
The reason to not go to a 14 team pool is that everyone would not play everyone as they do now. So how did everyone fair against NS and the Yukon this year?
Having two pools would eliminate a few mismatches and very likely would rarely see matchups between the heavyweights not take place after reseeding is done after a preliminary round robin.
Yeah the pool system would be fair and include everyone yet the CCA refuse to see it that way. I had suggested having a longer brier or Scotties, but this was shot down right away. Seems like no one will listen to any idea besides the status quo or relegation.
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