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watcher2
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 49

Only OCA could screw up this great event!

Well OCA did it again! First they have a great Ontario playdown at an arena (ok a small arena) but with the guys and girls together it was a great event......until it came to the scheduling.

We get to tie breakers...guess it was a surprise to the OCA officials that you could have tie breakers in an event like this.

So what do they do? Schedule one of the women's teams to play two 10 end games and a tie breaker in the same day with no time between to even have a meal! Talk about a meat head move! Then this same team that came off the ice after three games on Friday ending around 10 pm and has to play at 9:00am the next morning! Come on.....don't you have to have an IQ above 30 to do the scheduling at OCA?

Remember now that there are 5 ice surfaces in the arena and only two at the most were scheduled for Saturday and One at a time for Sunday so why was there not plenty of time scheduled for men's and women's tie breakers? Heck, why didn't the Women's and Men's final play at the same time?

We won't get into the terrible ice break down in the final ends of the men's final....that's another topic.

I really wonder how these OCA people get home after work without getting lost every day! And they want to raise dues to pay these people!!!!!

Nice job of wrecking a great event! Good job hosting Cobourg!

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Old Post 02-06-17 04:56PM
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ED4OCA
Knee-Slider

Registered: Oct 2014
Location:
Posts: 3

Well Harvey,

As you can see by account I have identified myself to the masses before I speak and do not hide behind a acronym or handle to make comments to the general public with no real consequences to yourself. I do not normally reply to much of the posts on this site as it usually invokes more offhanded uninformed comments.

A little background to the event in Cobourg ... the host committee had asked for a guarantee of 6 playoff games on the weekend and sold tickets to that effect. If we could change one thing we would move the women's semi-final to Saturday evening to avoid this exact situation.

Your comments are VERY unfair and easily made with your crystal ball in hand. The situation was a living and breathing affair during the event. The teams were finished their afternoon game at 5:15 pm and were offered an optional practice to match rocks at approximately 5:30 pm. The first scheduled practice for the evening draw was 7:05 pm which in my calculations is over an over to get food etc.

Is this situation ideal NO ... but a much better option than the scheduled tie-breaker at 12:01 am.

I am sure all of your experience in event management in arena's and working with host committees would be very insightful to the OCA and I look forward to your resume for a position. It is unfortunate that people accuse hard working individuals of being complete morons and not knowing how to get home each night. You sir are totally unfair and out of line.

I notice you did not mention any of the good things ... women playing on arena ice, combined draws with high attendance etc. Always the negative ... frustrating.

As to the ice conditions it is unfortunate that sometimes things are out of the control of the ice team and knowing our ice team they take any ice issues very seriously and we will be guaranteeing that a different set of control parameters with the host venue will be in effect going forward - and that is all I can say to that effect.

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Old Post 02-06-17 06:49PM
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Three
Swing Artist

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 250

Thank you for posting a very informative response Ed.

I would love to know the thinking behind splitting the men's and woman's events for 2018 but then combining them again in 2019. Is this true? I think combining them is a great idea with many benefits for the curlers and fans. With one road trip I can attend both playoffs live. Also, I know there is not much room in the schedule but if it is possible to not have the final on Superbowl Sunday that would boost attendance and ease the Sunday scheduling (as I'm sure you know).

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Old Post 02-06-17 07:34PM
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ED4OCA
Knee-Slider

Registered: Oct 2014
Location:
Posts: 3

Yes it is true for 2018 due to the Olympic cycle the National Scotties is much earlier which makes us hold the ON Scotties in early January and that would leave a seven week layoff for the winning men's team who would go on to the Brier. This is far too long to be out of competitive play as such we will split the event in Olympic years. We are already in planning stages for the combined 2019, 2020 and 2021 events.

If the dates work so we can avoid a Superbowl conflict that would be our preference.

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Old Post 02-06-17 07:51PM
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2028

Has CurlON considered going the style of a triple knockout - similar to Alberta? You don't have to start as early, you can have more teams and can set the schedule. Most important - no tiebreakers!

Just a thought. Looked like a great event, work kept me from attending but hopefully in 2019!

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Old Post 02-07-17 08:26AM
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Gerry
CZ Founder

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3885

quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad
Has CurlON considered going the style of a triple knockout - similar to Alberta? You don't have to start as early, you can have more teams and can set the schedule. Most important - no tiebreakers!

Just a thought. Looked like a great event, work kept me from attending but hopefully in 2019!



Outside of a handful of top teams, the TKO has generally been rejected as a format due the teams enjoying the current full round robin and getting to play everyone. With changes to funding for teams at the Provincials there may be some changes in attitudes in time but this format was generally not popular at all for the Provincial Championship.

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Old Post 02-07-17 09:02AM
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bennybeam
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2015
Location:
Posts: 98

quote:
Originally posted by ED4OCA
Well Harvey,

As you can see by account I have identified myself to the masses before I speak and do not hide behind a acronym or handle to make comments to the general public with no real consequences to yourself. I do not normally reply to much of the posts on this site as it usually invokes more offhanded uninformed comments.

A little background to the event in Cobourg ... the host committee had asked for a guarantee of 6 playoff games on the weekend and sold tickets to that effect. If we could change one thing we would move the women's semi-final to Saturday evening to avoid this exact situation.

Your comments are VERY unfair and easily made with your crystal ball in hand. The situation was a living and breathing affair during the event. The teams were finished their afternoon game at 5:15 pm and were offered an optional practice to match rocks at approximately 5:30 pm. The first scheduled practice for the evening draw was 7:05 pm which in my calculations is over an over to get food etc.

Is this situation ideal NO ... but a much better option than the scheduled tie-breaker at 12:01 am.

I am sure all of your experience in event management in arena's and working with host committees would be very insightful to the OCA and I look forward to your resume for a position. It is unfortunate that people accuse hard working individuals of being complete morons and not knowing how to get home each night. You sir are totally unfair and out of line.

I notice you did not mention any of the good things ... women playing on arena ice, combined draws with high attendance etc. Always the negative ... frustrating.

As to the ice conditions it is unfortunate that sometimes things are out of the control of the ice team and knowing our ice team they take any ice issues very seriously and we will be guaranteeing that a different set of control parameters with the host venue will be in effect going forward - and that is all I can say to that effect.



I'm not so sure the "Sir" should not have been "Mrs"---just sayin lol

But a great response and rational people always think before they throw accusations around---always going to be poor losers, even in curling!

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Old Post 02-07-17 09:15AM
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watcher2
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 49

quote:
Originally posted by ED4OCA
Well Harvey,

As you can see by account I have identified myself to the masses before I speak and do not hide behind a acronym or handle to make comments to the general public with no real consequences to yourself........



First of all ED4OCA...if you had dealt with internet security and investigations as much as I have you would use an acronym as well....anything but is just plain stupid.....especially since this site has been hacked before.

As to the crystal ball, we have been scheduling bonspiels including men's and women's events together since way back in the 1996 Hamilton World's so there was plenty of history and information to draw from. Nothing new about tie breakers either, every main event has to deal with them so just admit that it was plain lack of forethought and planning. A simple ladder layout would have shown the possibilities. Then there is just plain common sense.... asking a team to play 3 games in a day with no breaks even long enough eat a proper meal.

Typical of the OCA, it defends stupidity rather than admitting and correcting. Plain ignorance... and you want to increase OCA dues?

Same with the ice.....just how many events are held each year in arena's? So..no one expected crowds to increase for the men's final? Come on! It more seems to me that the OCA has no respect for the players and the effort and costs they put in to get to this event. Without the players and play downs there is little reason for the OCA to exist!

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Old Post 02-07-17 09:42AM
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Guest
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: .
Posts: 1845

quote:
Originally posted by ED4OCA
As you can see by account I have identified myself to the masses before I speak and do not hide behind a acronym or handle




Harvey gets spanked

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Old Post 02-07-17 02:18PM
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ott-am
Swing Artist

Registered: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 340

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry


Outside of a handful of top teams, the TKO has generally been rejected as a format due the teams enjoying the current full round robin and getting to play everyone. With changes to funding for teams at the Provincials there may be some changes in attitudes in time but this format was generally not popular at all for the Provincial Championship.



I believe more teams will agree with the TKO in the future. Teams don't want to keep playing once they have been mathematically eliminated. It might have been popular for some in the past when they got a free hotel for the week, but that is not the case anymore. The non modified TKO is a vastly superior draw.

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Old Post 02-07-17 03:32PM
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Stumpy
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2016
Location: Ontario
Posts: 44

Re: Only OCA could screw up this great event!

quote:
Originally posted by watcher2
Well OCA did it again! First they have a great Ontario playdown at an arena (ok a small arena) but with the guys and girls together it was a great event......until it came to the scheduling.

We get to tie breakers...guess it was a surprise to the OCA officials that you could have tie breakers in an event like this.

So what do they do? Schedule one of the women's teams to play two 10 end games and a tie breaker in the same day with no time between to even have a meal! Talk about a meat head move! Then this same team that came off the ice after three games on Friday ending around 10 pm and has to play at 9:00am the next morning! Come on.....don't you have to have an IQ above 30 to do the scheduling at OCA?

Remember now that there are 5 ice surfaces in the arena and only two at the most were scheduled for Saturday and One at a time for Sunday so why was there not plenty of time scheduled for men's and women's tie breakers? Heck, why didn't the Women's and Men's final play at the same time?

We won't get into the terrible ice break down in the final ends of the men's final....that's another topic.

I really wonder how these OCA people get home after work without getting lost every day! And they want to raise dues to pay these people!!!!!

Nice job of wrecking a great event! Good job hosting Cobourg!



I'm sorry you lost. Better luck next year.

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Old Post 02-07-17 04:28PM
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2028

quote:
Originally posted by ott-am


I believe more teams will agree with the TKO in the future. Teams don't want to keep playing once they have been mathematically eliminated. It might have been popular for some in the past when they got a free hotel for the week, but that is not the case anymore. The non modified TKO is a vastly superior draw.



That's why I like it. You can have more teams and start the event later which helps those who work other jobs or have young families. Now that CurlON doesn't pay hotels it is more cost effective for the teams. And as you noted, no more meaningless games between teams who are out of it.

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Old Post 02-08-17 08:27AM
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slider1
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 90

We used to use the modified triple in Sask years ago to determine prov winner. It was fantastic though not guaranteed when the final would be as the same team could win all three events or have one team win two events and would have to be beaten twice. Teams with three losses would be gone from event and often the same teams would be battling it out but that it is because they were the most deserving.
Ontario tried this system once as far as I know and it was for one year for ladies southerns, when they still had it. So many complaints but it wasn't given a chance. The complaints were based on the same teams playing each other. That is because they were the better teams and that way it wasn't just a head to head once or twice.
Really liked the format...
The OCA has really been proactive the last few years, kudos to them.

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Old Post 02-08-17 09:53AM
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watcher2
Harvey Hacksmasher

Registered: Mar 2015
Location:
Posts: 49

quote:
Originally posted by Guest




Harvey gets spanked



For those of you who aren't smart enough to figure it out, the names are assigned by the forms program based on the number of times you post. Just goes to show who the real thinkers are! No wonder curling is in trouble.

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Old Post 02-09-17 03:30PM
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dbsdbs
Drawmaster

Registered: Feb 2013
Location:
Posts: 757

quote:
Originally posted by slider1
We used to use the modified triple in Sask years ago to determine prov winner. It was fantastic though not guaranteed when the final would be as the same team could win all three events or have one team win two events and would have to be beaten twice. Teams with three losses would be gone from event and often the same teams would be battling it out but that it is because they were the most deserving.



The problem with this type of playoff is that teams that do well in all 3 events have to keep playing more and more games while another team might lose out of 2 events and have to play many fewer games to win the other event. Teams that advance in only one event get much more rest than teams that have to keep playing in all 3 events to the point that it may be an advantage to lose as long as a team stays alive in one event

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Old Post 02-09-17 04:09PM
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ott-am
Swing Artist

Registered: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 340

quote:
Originally posted by dbsdbs


The problem with this type of playoff is that teams that do well in all 3 events have to keep playing more and more games while another team might lose out of 2 events and have to play many fewer games to win the other event. Teams that advance in only one event get much more rest than teams that have to keep playing in all 3 events to the point that it may be an advantage to lose as long as a team stays alive in one event



Not really. If a team wins the A, they could win the B as well with five wins. Then lets say they lose the C semi. That would be six games. Another team could lose the first two, drop to the C, then it would take four wins to win the C spot. At that point both teams will have played six games, and the C winner would have to beat the A-B winner twice. Remember, this is the non-modified not the modified TKO that we are referring to.

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Old Post 02-09-17 04:44PM
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Guest
Super Rockchucker

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: .
Posts: 1845

quote:
Originally posted by watcher2
For those of you who aren't smart enough to figure it out, the names are assigned by the forms program based on the number of times you post. Just goes to show who the real thinkers are! No wonder curling is in trouble.


Too funny. Watcher, you must be a riot at parties.

Rock On

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Old Post 02-10-17 10:27PM
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