Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990

from the CCA website;

The host province for the Scotties and Tim Hortons Brier will always be guaranteed a berth, regardless of their finish the year previous.

no where does it say Team Canada will get a guaranteed berth.

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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: central alberta
Posts: 56

quote:

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Originally posted by dugless_zone 13
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no where does it say Team Canada will get a guaranteed berth.

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Registered: Mar 2014
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Posts: 51

Sure there is. Lets say Homan finished last this year. TC is relegated and then the leaf switches to this years winner.

Its not rocket science.

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 210

quote:

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Originally posted by Island Roger
Sure there is. Lets say Homan finished last this year. TC is relegated and then the leaf switches to this years winner.

Its not rocket science.

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 839

quote:

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Originally posted by Borough Boy
Although the teams in the prequalifier that didn't make it and not in the main event, my suspicsion was they were treated well with the same perks as teams in the actual event.

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Registered: Apr 2009
Location:
Posts: 36

quote:

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Originally posted by nelski
I see a flaw in the relegation system.

I believe that the relegation round should be played AFTER the Scotties and the Brier so that the actual team that is RELEGATED has to play these other teams. Otherwise, a NEW team from that province, and probably a stronger team (or possibly at least) will be playing the territories (or the losers of the previous relegation round).

This way, the relegated team has a year to prepare. Is playing a team that has come off the ice and is game for slaughter. Also, the winner of the relegation round has a year to prepare for the next season's event.

Thoughts?

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 48

quote:

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Originally posted by milobloom


Actually, listen to our latest Around The House Podcast and you'll hear that teams were NOT treated the same. Hopefully these issues will be addressed next year.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location:
Posts: 24

Please read under Answer to Relegation. its an easy fix

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990

quote:

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Originally posted by dewd

There is no way for Team Canada to be relegated, since there is no way for them to be at the bottom of the standings and win the event at the same time.

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Registered: Sep 2011
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Posts: 1064

If you stop thinking of it as "Team Canada" it will make a lot more sense...

Berths in the Brier are assigned like this:

The 9 Provinces who's team placed 1-9 in year X's Brier get berths in year X+1 for their X+1 year champions. That's 9 berths.

The 10th berth goes to whatever province is hosting. If that province already has a berth from above, the 10th place team from year X gets a berth

The 11th berth goes to the team that wins the relegation round between all provinces not in 1-10 above

The 12th berth goes to the defending champion team from year X. They are referred to as "Team Canada"

Voila.

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: the Banana Belt
Posts: 990

The 12th berth goes to the defending champion team from year X. They are referred to as "Team Canada"

where in the rules does it state that. I read the information on the CCA website and did not see that. post the link please

although I did find this

As of the 2016 Scotties and Tim Hortons Brier, the qualification tournament will feature the three provinces/territories that didn’t qualify in the previous year along with the 12th- place finisher from the previous year.

Last edited by dugless_zone 13 on 02-22-15 at 05:44PM

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Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 612

quote:

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Originally posted by Island Roger
Sure there is. Lets say Homan finished last this year. TC is relegated and then the leaf switches to this years winner.

Its not rocket science.

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Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 1875

It's very simple to figure out, however I'm for leaving it the way it was, no relegation.

In any given year the last place team gets relegated. The following year they do the "play in" with whatever other teams didn't qualify to get to the one team that advances to the big show. The host team and team Canada are guaranteed spots so if it ever happens the last place team is the next years host, the 2nd last place team will be relegated. A returning team Canada will never finish last, or 2nd last if the host team is last anyway, but if they do and all the stars align, then the 3rd last place gets relegated.

I hope they see the error of their ways and change it back.

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Registered: Sep 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 116

This is fun to read. Relegation really has so many lost and confused.

I am sad to see teams such as Galusha's not be there for the week. For 11 Scotties Kerry has been a part of this and then to be told she no longer is because of relegation results is sad. The territories will struggle to beat most provinces. The East Coast will struggle too. And BC, well poor Patti. She was so outplayed by everyone.

I think the the fact that the three territories want(or the assoc want) representation when they do not normally have the resources to play at an elite level most of the year has resulted in the relegation process. Keeping Team Canada, and adding NO makes sense. NO has a strong contingent of players, and they do attend the seasonal spiels.

I know that length of the Scotties or Brier is an issue if all teams played. Then there is the tv challenge of making sure all prov/terr are on at least once.

But to host 3 teams and send 2 away is cruel. Could they stay the week hotel costs covered? They may not want to, but if they did? They earned the right to represent their part of the country.

What an amazing week of playing. Some surprises. Some very sad moments. Thank you to all the players for putting your heart and souls out there.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068

quote:

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Originally posted by OverAndOut
perhaps the process should have followed the European model more closely ... meaning that the relegation pool of teams [ie., NO, Y, NWT] played a round-robin [or double round-robin] plus championship game at the same time as the national --- say at a local curling club --- then that 'winner' played the 12th place finisher on the Sunday morning of championship weekend.

The national tournament then does not need extra days of arena rental -- a big $$$. The timing issues seen this year would be gone. And teams would know ahead of time what tournament they were in for planning purposes.

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__________________
Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 1962

quote:

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Originally posted by Western Newbie


But to host 3 teams and send 2 away is cruel. Could they stay the week hotel costs covered? They may not want to, but if they did? They earned the right to represent their part of the country.

What an amazing week of playing. Some surprises. Some very sad moments. Thank you to all the players for putting your heart and souls out there.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location:
Posts: 24

No Relegation go a little like the juniors except make it a
16 team Brier or Scotties, Teams will come from the 14 associations plus Team Canada and the leading CRTS. Divided into 2 pools played Saturday to Wednesday, tiebreakers wed. night or Thursday am and the Top 8 complete the crossover games Thursday and Friday with the Page on the weekend. Bottom 8 teams after pool play pay their rooms after Wed. Hey CCA gotta save somewhere. This can be done in an arena.

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Registered: Mar 2013
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Posts: 1875

quote:

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Originally posted by decade


CRUEL is beheading pows or journalists.
Not making a sports event because you are not good enough should be an incentive to improve yourself.

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Registered: Mar 2014
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Posts: 51

WOW ........ I love that idea if I am understanding it right.

So all week long there could actually be relegation games taking place. Then when the 12 place finisher is decided the winner of the relegation teams participates in a one game showdown during an off time on the weekend for a guaranteed spot in next years event. If were gonna have this thing then that's not a bad idea.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Twin Snowbanks
Posts: 2068

quote:

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Originally posted by Island Roger
WOW ........ I love that idea if I am understanding it right.

So all week long there could actually be relegation games taking place. Then when the 12 place finisher is decided the winner of the relegation teams participates in a one game showdown during an off time on the weekend for a guaranteed spot in next years event. If were gonna have this thing then that's not a bad idea.

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__________________
Lots of major youth (<21) events. Nice for Murdoch... and us :-D.

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 407

The biggest problem I can see with nelski's suggestion -- actually the only problem -- is that it shows insufficient disrespect to the players. The same weakness is apparent in most of the alternatives that have been suggested here and elsewhere.

What we really need, and what we seem destined to get, is a system similar to that used in Sweden, where Peja Lindholm personally nominates the teams to be sent to the World championships and the Olympics.

The beauty of the Swedish system is that Lindholm's decisions are independent of -- and irrespective of -- any actual on-ice results. The disrespect inherent in this system was powerful enough to prompt the retirement of Olympic Gold Medalist Anette Norberg, who couldn't buy a trip to the Worlds even after winning yet another national championship. The indignities borne last week by Sarah Koltun and Kerry Galusha and their teams seem pale in comparison.

If only we had a megalomaniac willing to play Peja's role, we could get on with the important task of abolishing expensive and unnecessary events -- including the Brier, the Tournament of Hearts, and the Canada Cup as well.

Oh wait! What am I saying? We DO have somebody. Sorry about that.

Last edited by Par on 02-23-15 at 05:16AM

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Registered: Sep 2011
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Posts: 6002

quote:

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Originally posted by Par
The biggest problem I can see with nelski's suggestion -- actually the only problem -- is that it shows insufficient disrespect to the players. The same weakness is apparent in most of the alternatives that have been suggested here and elsewhere.

What we really need, and what we seem destined to get, is a system similar to that used in Sweden, where Peja Lindholm personally nominates the teams to be sent to the World championships and the Olympics.

The beauty of the Swedish system is that Lindholm's decisions are independent of -- and irrespective of -- any actual on-ice results. The disrespect inherent in this system was powerful enough to prompt the retirement of Olympic Gold Medalist Anette Norberg, who couldn't buy a trip to the Worlds even after winning yet another national championship. The indignities borne last week by Sarah Koltun and Kerry Galusha and their teams seem pale in comparison.

If only we had a megalomaniac willing to play Peja's role, we could get on with the important task of abolishing expensive and unnecessary events -- including the Brier, the Tournament of Hearts, and the Canada Cup as well.

Oh wait! What am I saying? We DO have somebody. Sorry about that.

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Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 6002

quote:

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Originally posted by Island Roger
WOW ........ I love that idea if I am understanding it right.

So all week long there could actually be relegation games taking place. Then when the 12 place finisher is decided the winner of the relegation teams participates in a one game showdown during an off time on the weekend for a guaranteed spot in next years event. If were gonna have this thing then that's not a bad idea.

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Registered: Feb 2015
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Posts: 67

quote:

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Originally posted by FollowingAlong
There's been some debate on relegation as it pertains to the Scotties and Brier. If the CCA is going to continue with the new model (at least for the Brier) that grants a spot in next year's event to Team Canada and (new again this year for the Scotties) a possible spot for Northern Ontario and (if they decide to send teams) a spot for Nunavut, that means 15 possible teams.

The CCA also seems stuck on the 12 team main event model which requires some form of relegation. We can debate this until the cows come home whether NT, YT, PE, NU, or whichever other province/territory has a bad Scotties/Brier should be subjected to relegation the following year. Personally, based on recent performance, it doesn't really make sense that the field should be expanding but I understand the arguments being presented. Hey, if Northern Ontario can argue that they should get a spot because of extensive travel requirements to compete with their southern Ontario counterparts, each of our territories could make the same argument. That being said, let's look outside the box on this.

With 15 teams (10 provinces, 3 territories, Northern Ontario, Team Canada), a full round robin would require 105 games (15*14/2). If 5 sheets of ice would be available, that would be 21 draws. If the event starts on Saturday and you play 3 draws a day, you complete the round robin the following Friday - with each team playing exactly 2 games a day.

With this model, there would be no playoff games on Friday unless a situation arose that required 3 tie-breaker draws and then you'd have to play a late night tie-breaker game on Friday - such is the pain you need to bear if you fall into that situation. If two or three tie-breaker draws are required, you would need the second Saturday morning and afternoon to run tie-breaker games and if that is necessary, you push the 1-2 and 3-4 page games to run on the same draw Saturday evening. If only one tie-breaker game is required (or none), the tie-breaker game would go Saturday morning, the 3-4 game would go Saturday afternoon, and the 1-2 game would go Saturday evening.

The semi-final would go Sunday morning, the arguably useful bronze medal game would go Sunday afternoon, and the final would go at the now standard Sunday evening slot.

Yes, you'd need more volunteers, the ice technicians would have a bit more work, and you's have that one possible issue where you have the 1-2 and 3-4 games being played at the same time, but going with this option you can get rid of relegation. How long will it take Nunavut to be competitive? Who knows, but it will take a lot less time than it will if they start coming for one game in relegation only to be sent home a day or two later because they lost that game.

I understand that I've probably overlooked a thing or two, but this seems so much better than relegation that it shouldn't be dismissed without some consideration.

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Registered: Dec 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 131

People love to cry foul whenever change is made to something that has been the same for a long time. There is also the very vocal "everyone must participate; we must be fair!" crowd. The Scotties set record TV numbers last week - guess people really hate relegation!

I like relegation. It makes the field unquestionably stronger which equals better curling to watch. I think we'll all get over the immense sadness of not seeing two of YT, NS and PE at the Brier this year.

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